Saudi Arabia expells Canadian ambassador

[GostHacked]

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

Well, the new Saudi guy on here has assured us that they are treated better than Western women, so......

Also 'Saudi Monitor' seems more like a travel agent for Saudi Arabia than what we would call a typical poster.

[marcus]

40 minutes ago, Saudi Monitor said:

Those who complain about criticisms are in fact those with insecurities.

Like Saudi Arabia's hissy fit after Canada criticized it?

40 minutes ago, Saudi Monitor said:

My visit to Saudi Arabia changed all my perceptions

 

 

 

What is a suburban American mom doing in Saudi Arabia?

This blogger was paid to visit Saudi Arabia and to create this video to market Saudi Arabia. Notice that none of her blogs in Saudi show her in public? It's her hiding in her hotel room talking about how "awesome everything is!" and "her perception has changed". 

 

[Saudi Monitor]

1 hour ago, marcus said:

This blogger was paid to visit Saudi Arabia and to create this video to market Saudi Arabia. Notice that none of her blogs in Saudi show her in public? It's her hiding in her hotel room talking about how "awesome everything is!" and "her perception has changed". 

 

The article and the video are completely unrelated. And no, she is not paid, regardless of what kind of delusion you might have. And neither do she hide in the hotel. 

The fact is, despite what propaganda you may have heard, KSA is by far according to many visitors, one of the most interesting, safest, welcoming, and life-changing travel experience on the entire planet! Before that, you can be comforted knowing many westerners have visited The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and shared their experiences.

Quote

Saudi Arabia was by far the most adventurous of the three destinations and required an extensive process to get the travel visa. We spent four days, three nights in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia’s commercial capital. Our visit to the Kingdom was a trip of a lifetime and one we thoroughly enjoyed.

https://www.backpacking-with-the-bonds.com/kingdom-of-saudi-arabia/

 

 

Edited January 30, 2019 by Saudi Monitor

[turningrite]

1 hour ago, Saudi Monitor said:

Those who complain about criticisms are in fact those with insecurities. Well, here's a wake up call -- you aren't nor have you ever been "superior" and neither do you have anything to stand on to be lecturing others with you're propaganda.

There are in fact millions Saudis and other people across the world who live more fulfilling lives than your average Canadian/Westerner. There are in fact many Saudis and other people across the world that can proclaim with certainty that their lives are "better" than your average Canadian/Westerner. 

 

Let's make a deal: You go to Saudi Arabia and stay there and I'll stay in North America and promise never to visit the Kingdom. My life will be no less fulfilled for entering this bargain.

Edited January 30, 2019 by turningrite

[QuebecOverCanada]

1 hour ago, Saudi Monitor said:

There are in fact millions Saudis and other people across the world who live more fulfilling lives than your average Canadian/Westerner. There are in fact many Saudis and other people across the world that can proclaim with certainty that their lives are "better" than your average Canadian/Westerner. t anything like it is portrayed in the West.

Saudi Arabia has over 32,9 million people living in it. Of course not all of them have shitty lives.

Most of em do, though. And way worse than Canadians. Especially if you're female. Especially if you're not close to the Royal family.

Saudis have no rights of freedom of expression whatsoever, have religiously zealot schools whose degrees are worthless internationally because they offer no substance and no real education, only indoctrination. The people are executed for daring to say something about the regime, one of the most oppressive on Earth. Music is not well seen in the Kingdom, nor is entertainment of any kind.

Saudi Arabia is almost on par with North Korea when it comes to Human Rights, but I would give you that it is rich in oil. HURRAH!

[Goddess]

I'm sure Saudi Arabia is a lovely place to visit.  As a woman, I would not want to live there.

It's one thing for men to take over all the power positions in society, but it's entirely another to despise women and inflict so much brutality and degradation on them.  

What sane species treats half of its members - the half who give birth to the very species - with such contempt and injustice?  Women living as prisoners, unable to leave the house unless under the guardianship of a male.  They have no role in determining their own lives - look at the pictures of the Women's Conference and Gender Equality awards - all men.  They are nothing more than a commodity, property of men, to do with as they please.

I'd rather live here in the frozen tundra and have the freedoms that women have in Canada, than in a beautiful, rich country that treats women like a sub-species.

And just because some women "like" being treated that way - still does not make it right.

Edited January 30, 2019 by Goddess

[DogOnPorch]

Saudi Arabia...

[QuebecOverCanada]

7 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Saudi Arabia...

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

This is basically apartheid.

But since they're Muslims, shut it if you dare to denounce this, white man.

[QuebecOverCanada]

16 minutes ago, Goddess said:

And just because some women "like" being treated that way - still does not make it right.

I'm sure they do enjoy it.

That's why they stone to death the women who dare to criticize it.

[Goddess]

6 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

 

That's why they stone to death the women who dare to criticize it.

Well if my choice was like their's - live as a prisoner and possession under a giant sheet of cloth OR die - I would "enjoy" it, too.

[Saudi Monitor]

 The people in KSA are very eager and do constantly talk about politics and various other things. On this point, the image of KSA as a totalitarian like society is wrong and a lie. There are plenty of people who openly criticize KSA's policies on any issues, although the 2 area that can get you  in trouble is, if you overtly say things that are deemed extremely insulting on issue that are actually highly regarded in the society, i.e Islam. Or if you are a puppet to foreign country, and used as a tool and excuse to meddle into the internal sovereign affairs of a independent country under the cover of "human rights" or "women right" to have their interests served, as Canada previously attempted.

49 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Saudi Arabia...

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

This is a holy place, none of your business. 

The Holy Ka'aba by Rehan Jamil, on Flickr

Edited January 30, 2019 by Saudi Monitor

[eyeball]

50 minutes ago, Saudi Monitor said:

 The people in KSA are very eager and do constantly talk about politics and various other things. On this point, the image of KSA as a totalitarian like society is wrong and a lie. There are plenty of people who openly criticize KSA's policies on any issues 

How about Arabian critics of your government's close military ties to the West?  The few that exist in the West are typically dismissed as communist/terrorist sympathizers.  Its unfortunate that most western attitudes against your country are instead shaped by people who would rather treat Islam like it was a race - is that what's triggering you?  How do you feel about the West's deep military ties to your government?

Edited January 30, 2019 by eyeball

[Argus]

5 hours ago, Saudi Monitor said:

Those who complain about criticisms are in fact those with insecurities.

Well, if that's the case, then your crown prince must be the world's most insecure person given how how he throws a temper tantrum at the slightest criticism. Not to mention murdering people for daring to criticize his wonderful regime

[Argus]

4 hours ago, GostHacked said:

Also 'Saudi Monitor' seems more like a travel agent for Saudi Arabia than what we would call a typical poster.

More like a government propaganda employee.

[GostHacked]

1 hour ago, Saudi Monitor said:

  On this point, the image of KSA as a totalitarian like society is wrong and a lie.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA.....  right.

[GostHacked]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

More like a government propaganda employee.

You could very well be right.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Saudi Monitor said:

 The people in KSA are very eager and do constantly talk about politics and various other things. On this point, the image of KSA as a totalitarian like society is wrong and a lie.

Freedom House rates nations according to a scale of freedom, from 0-100, with 100 being the most free.

Saudi Arabia scores.... 7
By way of comparison, Canada scores ... 99

Saudi Arabia’s absolute monarchy restricts almost all political rights and civil liberties. No officials at the national level are elected. The regime relies on extensive surveillance, the criminalization of dissent, appeals to sectarianism, and public spending supported by oil revenues to maintain power. Women and religious minorities face extensive discrimination in law and in practice.

https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2018/saudi-arabia

 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2019 by Argus

[QuebecOverCanada]

4 hours ago, Goddess said:

Well if my choice was like their's - live as a prisoner and possession under a giant sheet of cloth OR die - I would "enjoy" it, too.

I'm just giving you the 666th like just to curse Saudi Monitor with Satan's wrath

[cannuck]

Hate to rain on a few parades, but I strongly suspect most of the people so down on KSA have never actually BEEN there.  Other than pilgrims going to hajj, there are few tourist traps..er attractions to draw visitors, but the West coast DOES have some great diving sites on the Red Sea (especially around Jeddah) and Persian Gulf (around Dammam but far more commercial/industrial than leisure),  also thousands of kms of coastline with hundreds of beaches.  You don't get to visit Mecca unless of course you are Muslim.  I don't know what it would be like to be a tourist, but I have a lot of time as a guest.  I never stay in Western hotels or compounds (unless for a specific event) and I stick out like a very sore, white, Western thumb.  Pretty much EVERYONE I have met there including hundreds of perfect strangers without any introductions has been extremely polite and friendly, and once your hosts have known you long enough and well enough, you can actually get to know the country (not possible during a casual visit).  No, it is not as "free" as Canada, but one has to look at what progress IS being made.  Things move very slowly on that front, but they do move.  Even 15 years ago, there is one shopping center in downtown Riyadh where many women, especially younger ones did NOT cover themselves or use escorts when shopping and dining.  Now, you're going to jump up and down and tell me that women are "property" and mistreated regularly.  Hardly the case.  Women are generally the nucleus of the family and husbands do NOT mess with their authority.   Public places are very different from the world behind closed doors, but that is just the way it is.  Younger families are a lot more like what we would like to see (for instance, most are now monogamous).  It is not going to change overnight, or even anywhere near at the rate we expect, but things ARE changing on many fronts.   My closest friend there is not there right now.  You can actually get a decent education in KSA, to the extent that when my friend wanted to go on to post graduate studies, he had no trouble being academically accepted by pretty much ANY school.  Where his "freedom" is restricted is that he can't go to just any school.  Since the Kingdom is paying his way, he can only select from the few schools at the very top of their game.  They expect value for their money.  His wife was also offered the opportunity enter grad school in her own discipline while he is doing his doctorate.   AND, I can absolutely guarantee you, while in theory she is his "property" she is treated extremely well by him, his family, her family - and I mean well by ANY standard.

Edited January 31, 2019 by cannuck

[Guest]

1 hour ago, cannuck said:

Hate to rain on a few parades, but I strongly suspect most of the people so down on KSA have never actually BEEN there. 

Doesn't matter.  I've never been to North Korea, but I'm fairly sure that's a hole too.

[Saudi Monitor]

11 hours ago, eyeball said:

How about Arabian critics of your government's close military ties to the West?  The few that exist in the West are typically dismissed as communist/terrorist sympathizers.  Its unfortunate that most western attitudes against your country are instead shaped by people who would rather treat Islam like it was a race - is that what's triggering you?  How do you feel about the West's deep military ties to your government?

KSA, like any other country, would like to have good, friendly, relations with countries that wish to have such relations with KSA. This general case is magnified because the region despite its rich history and the wealth of its natural resources, has known more conflict than has been its share and less prosperity than it deserves. I think KSA's interaction with the rest of the world, in any kind of field is a good thing. As long as it creates the true conditions that strengthen KSA's touch with the rest of the world and give hope of a much brighter future for the region. 

And no, i'm not triggered. My modus operandi is to combat what I honestly, genuinely and truthfully consider to be a false image about KSA presented by those who have an agenda against KSA.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Saudi Monitor

[Saudi Monitor]

16 hours ago, turningrite said:

Let's make a deal: You go to Saudi Arabia and stay there and I'll stay in North America and promise never to visit the Kingdom. My life will be no less fulfilled for entering this bargain.

In regards to America, i feel that despite its riches and promises, America is ultimately not exactly a very desirable place to live. I noticed ridiculous problems while i was in the US, such as expensive healthcare and housing, the costs of education, extremely materialistic and sexualized culture obsessed with superficial nonsense and ingrained prejudice and bigotry against section of its population, imperialistic arrogance, and shallowness of so many of its people. There is also a great deal of gun violence, unheard of in almost every other country on the planet, school shootings, mass shootings and the killing of civilians and cops on daily basis. It is home to 25 percent of the world's prison population and few if any can match America's wasteful food practices, yet 50 million Americans live in miserable poverty. In a nutshell, America is falling behind in every field imaginable! You just need to travel a bit to get a good clue and confront the unpleasant truth.

 I'm currently living in KSA, but travel quiet often abroad due to work. Nonetheless i am happy with my choice. To be sure, KSA has its problems but they are typically different than the problems that are advertised and highlighted. Overall, though, KSA is as a good place to live as any, if not better.

South African traveler documents his experience in KSA.

 

Edited January 31, 2019 by Saudi Monitor

[turningrite]

8 hours ago, Saudi Monitor said:

In regards to America, i feel that despite its riches and promises, America is ultimately not exactly a very desirable place to live...America is falling behind in every field imaginable! You just need to travel a bit to get a good clue and confront the unpleasant truth.

 I'm currently living in KSA, but travel quiet often abroad due to work. Nonetheless i am happy with my choice. To be sure, KSA has its problems but they are typically different than the problems that are advertised and highlighted. Overall, though, KSA is as a good place to live as any, if not better.

South African traveler documents his experience in KSA.

And yet, according to Gallup polling, the U.S. overwhelmingly remains the first choice among those worldwide who say they'd like to emigrate from their own country. (See link below.) Funny how that works, right? The U.S. faces entrenched poverty among specific groups and in specific places. Those who migrate there legally, however, tend to have the skills and education to prosper. The KSA, likely due to its wealth and its popularity among Muslims who'd like to migrate, is the top non-Western destination, with 1/6th as many indicating it as their preferred destination in comparison to the bad old America. Even declining Canada, with its rather anemic economy (but lots of government subsidies for newcomers) ranks well ahead of the KSA.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/11/these-are-the-countries-migrants-want-to-move-to/

 

[eyeball]

11 hours ago, Saudi Monitor said:

And no, i'm not triggered. My modus operandi is to combat what I honestly, genuinely and truthfully consider to be a false image about KSA presented by those who have an agenda against KSA.

Well, I'm afraid I'm triggered by the fact that many of us in the west have an agenda WITH the KSA's government.  I regard SA's government as being amongst the most reprehensible on the planet and it disgusts me that our government is aligned with it. 

Do you find it odd at all that many of the other people you're discussing your admiration for the KSA with in this thread can't stand either your country or your admiration for your kingdom but are quite willing to maintain our close alliance with it anyway?

Do you admire your King and the way he governs you and do you support the close military and economic ties he maintains with the West?

Edited January 31, 2019 by eyeball

[Argus]

19 hours ago, cannuck said:

Hate to rain on a few parades, but I strongly suspect most of the people so down on KSA have never actually BEEN there.  Other than pilgrims going to hajj, there are few tourist traps..er attractions to draw visitors, but the West coast DOES have some great diving sites on the Red Sea (especially around Jeddah) and Persian Gulf (around Dammam but far more commercial/industrial than leisure),  also thousands of kms of coastline with hundreds of beaches

That has nothing to do with the society or its freedoms or lack thereof.

19 hours ago, cannuck said:

I never stay in Western hotels or compounds (unless for a specific event) and I stick out like a very sore, white, Western thumb.  Pretty much EVERYONE I have met there including hundreds of perfect strangers without any introductions has been extremely polite and friendly, and once your hosts have known you long enough and well enough, you can actually get to know the country (not possible during a casual visit).

And that too is irrelevant. It's the same in China. The people are quite friendly to these odd, unusual westerners. Try telling them you're a Jew, though. Try walking around as a woman dressed as a western woman would. Try discussing politics, or for that matter, practicing your own religion - since no other religions are permitted nor any symbols of them. Try not being a well-off Westerner and being a poor labourer from the Philippines or a maid from Pakistan and see how they treat you then.