Faisal Hussain - the evolving story

Argus · August 3, 2018

3 hours ago, GostHacked said:

Interesting that this thread has been hijacked by people screaming ISLAM, when right from the start it was his mental state that caused the issues. Anything ISLAM has already been debunked in this thread

It has?

Argus · August 3, 2018

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

This post doesn't acknowledge my point about the lies. As such it serves to excuse them.

I don't think there were a lot of lies. I think some people were confused about how government operates and thought that the House passing this resolution was akin to passing a bill. Others simply thought it was likely the run-up to the justification for a bill.

Argus · August 3, 2018

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

There are socially accepted reasons for terrible actions. Self-defense is one but perceptions - as you seem to be saying in the rest of the post - are generally not.

The term most often used for that framing is 'blame the victim'.

I've never really accepted that idea that the victim in any sort of crime never bears any responsibility for what happens. Sometimes, they don't, of course. Sometimes they do.

Now it's true that if I go wandering in the nastiest corner of the city with a fat wad of cash poking out of my pocket that is not excuse to rob me, but if I did so I bet a lot of people would be saying something along the lines of "What were you thinking anyway?!"

Centerpiece · August 3, 2018

3 hours ago, GostHacked said:

Interesting that this thread has been hijacked by people screaming ISLAM, when right from the start it was his mental state that caused the issues. Anything ISLAM has already been debunked in this thread.

Honestly - I'm hoping I haven't missed anything.........can you provide any proof (not hearsay) - other than the "family statement" - that he was mentally ill?

Michael Hardner · August 3, 2018

24 minutes ago, Argus said:

Now it's true that if I go wandering in the nastiest corner of the city with a fat wad of cash poking out of my pocket that is not excuse to rob me, but if I did so I bet a lot of people would be saying something along the lines of "What were you thinking anyway?!"

Or maybe you are the sole superpower and you invade a country to stabilize oil prices and kill 100,000 civilians and...

Well you can finish it.

scribblet · August 3, 2018

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

I think It really is shameless and ignorant of xenophobes to ignore and deny all the confirmatiom of mental illness to push their anti-Muslim agenda which seem to be their knee-jerk reaction to Muslim criminals, considering that most Muslim people are not violent and far more likely to be victims of crime rather than perpetrators.

Nice try

scribblet · August 3, 2018

31 minutes ago, Centerpiece said:

Honestly - I'm hoping I haven't missed anything.........can you provide any proof (not hearsay) - other than the "family statement" - that he was mentally ill?

Exactly, and it wasn't from the family, the have not been heard from

dialamah · August 3, 2018

30 minutes ago, Centerpiece said:

Honestly - I'm hoping I haven't missed anything.........can you provide any proof (not hearsay) - other than the "family statement" - that he was mentally ill?

I provided a whole bunch of links, just look back a few posts. If they aren't official enough for you, I guess you'll also have to deny the claims made about Hussain's link to terrorism since those sources are equally unofficial.

DogOnPorch · August 3, 2018

2 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I provided a whole bunch of links, just look back a few posts. If they aren't official enough for you, I guess you'll also have to deny the claims made about Hussain's link to terrorism since those sources are equally unofficial.

Undying support for Islam...good.

Argus · August 3, 2018

17 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Or maybe you are the sole superpower and you invade a country to stabilize oil prices and kill 100,000 civilians and...

So you're a believer in conspiracy theories now?

Centerpiece · August 4, 2018

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

I provided a whole bunch of links, just look back a few posts. If they aren't official enough for you, I guess you'll also have to deny the claims made about Hussain's link to terrorism since those sources are equally unofficial.

Those links refer to not much more than hearsay from 8-10 years ago. Nothing will be official until it's verified that he was being treated more recently for psychosis or severe depression. You could have posted just as many links that showed that his current associates saw none of his "dark side". From your first link (just sayin'):

Quote

"He was fascinated with death and explosions. He also liked replica handguns,” the police source said.

A family spokesperson disputed this but confirmed to Global News that Hussain did once own a BB gun and loved Batman movies but no more than anyone else.

dialamah · August 4, 2018

1 minute ago, Centerpiece said:

Those links refer to not much more than hearsay from 8-10 years ago. Nothing will be official until it's verified that he was being treated more recently for psychosis or severe depression. You could have posted just as many links that showed that his current associates saw none of his "dark side". From your first link (just sayin'):

Ok. By the same token, the sources provided to support a terrorist motivation for the attack are mere hearsay. And the inclusion of the link about his brother's drug and gun cache are even less relevant. Do you agree?

Centerpiece · August 4, 2018

9 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Ok. By the same token, the sources provided to support a terrorist motivation for the attack are mere hearsay. And the inclusion of the link about his brother's drug and gun cache are even less relevant. Do you agree?

In general - yes, I agree.....in the absence of full disclosure and hard and fast "hard" evidence, there's a lot of speculation going on. As I said - it hit me yesterday that there is something bigger going on that has necessitated putting a lid on reporting. That's the only sense I can make out of the media silence after arguably the most devastating/chilling/heinous attack in Toronto history.

DogOnPorch · August 4, 2018

2 minutes ago, Centerpiece said:

In general - yes, I agree.....in the absence of full disclosure and hard and fast "hard" evidence, there's a lot of speculation going on. As I said - it hit me yesterday that there is something bigger going on that has necessitated putting a lid on reporting. That's the only sense I can make out of the media silence after arguably the most devastating/chilling/heinous attack in Toronto history.

Speculation says that these people...including the PM...have a connection. What it is...who knows? But I'd go so far as to speculate they all have connections beyond that, too...Boyle...Khadr...those three other guys w/ big cash payouts...etc. Aga Khan? Sky is the limit if we are left to speculate...

dialamah · August 4, 2018

17 minutes ago, Centerpiece said:

In general - yes, I agree.....in the absence of full disclosure and hard and fast "hard" evidence, there's a lot of speculation going on. As I said - it hit me yesterday that there is something bigger going on that has necessitated putting a lid on reporting. That's the only sense I can make out of the media silence after arguably the most devastating/chilling/heinous attack in Toronto history.

I understand what you are saying, but I personally don't think its been treated much differently than the van attack was. Big news for a few days, then nothing for a few weeks, then an update on a victim or two, followed by more silence.

The Mosque slaughter was the same, as I recall, although the story initially lasted a bit longer on the airwaves. Two weeks after the event, I was checking for updates as to Bissonette's motive and found nothing. Commenters here were also saying the same ... "Why the silence from media and government, is it a plot to hide terrorism from Canadians?" A year and a half later, I am still wondering what his motive was - was he really that misled by far-right rhetoric? Was mental illness a factor?

I really don't see this event as significantly different in terms of information released and time in the headlines. The speed with which a statement from the family was released is different, and JTs response does seem muted to me. But in my opinion, both of those things are explainable due to increasing anti-Muslim sentiment and JTs drop in polls recently. A conspiracy to hide facts seems a less likely explanation, at least to me.

Edited August 4, 2018 by dialamah

eyeball · August 4, 2018

5 hours ago, Argus said:

I've never really accepted that idea that the victim in any sort of crime never bears any responsibility for what happens. Sometimes, they don't, of course. Sometimes they do.

OTOH Argus is really quite accepting of the idea that perpetrators sometimes don't bear any responsibility for their crimes. Whether they do or don't is predicated on the colour, religion, ideology and culture of their victims.

You strut around the world with this wad of values on display you really should expect to find yourself at odds, often violently, wherever you flash it.

Quote

but if I did so I bet a lot of people would be saying something along the lines of "What were you thinking anyway?!"

And the answer would be, 'I'm the victim here - I have no choice'.

Edited August 4, 2018 by eyeball

eyeball · August 4, 2018

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Or maybe you are the sole superpower and you invade a country to stabilize oil prices and kill 100,000 civilians and...

Well you can finish it.

No he really can't do that at all.

cannuck · August 4, 2018

6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Or maybe you are the sole superpower and you invade a country to stabilize oil prices and kill 100,000 civilians and...

I think your tinfoil hat is a little tight today.

scribblet · August 4, 2018

Another Muslim who had mental illness, this 20 year old Mohammad Hassan Chaudhary had stolen a plane and crashed in Peterborough, Ontario.
R.C.M.P. only confirmed he had stolen the plane. So, what really is going on with all this mental illness?
https://t.co/9Xjbfilm6W

GostHacked · August 5, 2018

On 8/3/2018 at 6:56 PM, Argus said:

So you're a believer in conspiracy theories now?

This happened in Iraq. The nation was invaded, because Hussein wanted to ditch the petrodollar and deal in another currency for oil. That's not something that is disputed either.

GostHacked · August 5, 2018

On 8/3/2018 at 6:02 PM, Argus said:

It has?

Yes it has. The fact of ISIS claiming it was one of their attacks, which turned out to be false and negates that whole notion all together.

However I am sure the guy on the beach with the van had ties to terrorism and Islam .. wait.. the guy was just drunk. Never mind.

Argus · August 5, 2018

5 hours ago, GostHacked said:

This happened in Iraq. The nation was invaded, because Hussein wanted to ditch the petrodollar and deal in another currency for oil. That's not something that is disputed either.

Except by about 99% of people, you mean?

Argus · August 5, 2018

5 hours ago, GostHacked said:

Yes it has.

In what way? By whom? How?

Michael Hardner · August 7, 2018

On 8/3/2018 at 6:56 PM, Argus said:

So you're a believer in conspiracy theories now?

George Bush Sr. gave a speech rationalizing Gulf War I indicating that without that action oil prices would be much higher due to Sadam Hussein. I heard it on TV at that time.

Michael Hardner · August 7, 2018

On 8/3/2018 at 6:03 PM, Argus said:

I don't think there were a lot of lies. I think some people were confused about how government operates and thought that the House passing this resolution was akin to passing a bill. Others simply thought it was likely the run-up to the justification for a bill.

There was definitely a mindful distortion happening as I remember. Scare mongering and whatnot.