America's gun problem or is it?

[Dougie93]

6 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Yes I do....for protection against the threat of death or grave bodily harm.   Doesn't have anything to do with a "militia".

I have that right too, self protection is not what the second amendment is for, the second amendment is for defending the first amendment from tyrannical government.

Edited February 10, 2019 by Dougie93

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Dougie93 said:

I have that right too, self protection is not what the 2nd amendment is for, the 2nd amendment is for defending the first amendment from tyrannical government.

 

Doesn't matter...the practical result from case law and state legislation is the right to keep and bear arms for circumstances having nothing to do with protecting the First Amendment.    Canadians have no constitutional right to bear arms.

[Dougie93]

6 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Doesn't matter...the practical result from case law and state legislation is the right to keep and bear arms for circumstances having nothing to do with protecting the First Amendment.    Canadians have no constitutional right to bear arms.

Doesn't matter, the second amendment doesn't insulate you from Canadian style gun laws, so long as it is at the state level.

The state has the right to regulate, guns are not banned in Canada, just controlled, you don't have a constitutional protection from gun control.

[bush_cheney2004]

4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Doesn't matter, the second amendment doesn't insulate you from Canadian style gun laws, so long as it is at the state level.

The state has the right to regulate, guns are not banned in Canada, just controlled, you don't have a constitutional protection from gun control.

 

Several types of firearms are severely restricted in Canada, more so than in the United States (e.g. handguns).    State and local laws are also subject to challenge in the courts, one such case resulting in the present Supreme Court affirmation to keep and bear arms.

Americans have more gun rights than Canadians.

[Dougie93]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Several types of firearms are severely restricted in Canada, more so than in the United States (e.g. handguns).    State and local laws are also subject to challenge in the courts, one such case resulting in the present Supreme Court affirmation to keep and bear arms.

Americans have more gun rights than Canadians.

Americans have more gun rights than Canadians, but it's not that different, all Canada has in essence, is a federal assault weapons ban. 

America had one too, it is wasn't overturned by the Supreme Court.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

Americans have more gun rights than Canadians, but it's not that different, all Canada has in essence, is a federal assault weapons ban. 

America had one too, it is wasn't overturned by the Supreme Court.

 

It's a lot different in practice as well, from types of firearms owned to concealed carry.   

The U.S. federal "assault weapons" ban died in 2004, because it had a built in sunset clause.  It only applied to weapons manufactured after the law was passed.

 

[Dougie93]

Also I don't find sidearms to be more powerful, if you have a pump action and a sidearm, and I have a pump action and a C8, I'm the more powerful shooter, particularly for tactical purposes.

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

It's a lot different in practice as well, from types of firearms owned to concealed carry.   

The U.S. federal "assault weapons" ban died in 2004, because it had a built in sunset clause.  It only applied to weapons manufactured after the law was passed.

 

None the less, the federal government passed a Canadian style gun law, in that it was based on nonsense and they imposed it at the federal level, and the second amendment was invoked, and the courts didn't overturn the AWB.

Edited February 10, 2019 by Dougie93

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Also I don't find sidearms to be more powerful, if you have a pump action and a sidearm, and I have a pump action and a C8, I'm the more powerful shooter, particularly for tactical purposes.

 

Depends on the circumstances....concealed carry provides its own version of "power".

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

None the less, the federal government passed a Canadian style gun law, in that it was based on nonsense and they imposed it at the federal level, and the second amendment was invoked, and the courts didn't overturn the AWB.

 

The law overturned itself, as it was only passed in Congress based on the crack/drug killing sprees of the early 1990's.

Canadian style gun laws start at a completely different and absent right to own and bear arms.

[Dougie93]

13 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

The law overturned itself, as it was only passed in Congress based on the crack/drug killing sprees of the early 1990's.

Canadian style gun laws start at a completely different and absent right to own and bear arms.

That's not the case, there is a right to bear arms in British law, the Canadian public simply declines to invoke it, because they don't know the central narrative of their history.

Contrary to popular myth, the Crown cannot ban guns outright, since 1689.

So what the gun grabbers do in Canada, is rely on the public's ignorance, including the ignorance of the gun grabbers themselves.

The difference in America is that the public is simply more aware of their right to bear arms, which is in fact modeled on my right to bear arms under the British Crown.

Edited February 10, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

The real difference is, my right to keep and bear arms is in allowance of the law, in that I may not take up arms against the Crown for any reason.

The American right shall not be infringed, for the purposes of taking up arms against the government by the State Militias being mobilized.

Edited February 10, 2019 by Dougie93

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

The real difference is, my right to keep and bear arms is in allowance of the law, in that I may not take up arms against the Crown for any reason.

The America right shall not be infringed, for the purposes of taking up arms against the government, by the State Militias being mobilized.

 

Gun grabbers have lost the "militia" encroachment many times.     There are now close to 400,000,000 firearms in private U.S. possession.

[Dougie93]

38 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Gun grabbers have lost the "militia" encroachment many times.     There are now close to 400,000,000 firearms in private U.S. possession.

But those guns are not organized into State Militias at the moment, so they have no power at the moment, they have potential power, but only by way of a state defying Washington and then calling out the Militia against the Feds.

[Dougie93]

Washington is aware that a state could defy them, that a confederation of states could defy them, but what Washington does is use King Dollah to bribe the states into docility.

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Dougie93 said:

But those guns are not organized into State Militias at the moment, so they have no power at the moment, they have potential power, but only by way of a state defying Washington and then calling out the Militia against the Feds.

 

Academic observation, without much relevance on the ground in rural and urban America.  The power actually manifests itself at the personal and political level.  

 

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Academic observation, without much relevance on the ground in rural and urban America.  The power actually manifests itself at the personal and political level. 

Not individually, one man with a gun in America is taken down with ease, in fact Americans are illegally shot by SWAT teams all the time, and nobody does anything about it.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

Not individually, one man with a gun in America is taken down with ease, in fact Americans are illegally shot by SWAT teams all the time, and nobody does anything about it.

 

So are police officers, but states continue to expand concealed carry.    Americans are legally and illegally shot by other Americans every day, regardless of SWAT.

[Dougie93]

The Bundy's & Co tried to invoke their individual right to defy the government in Oregon, but the only guy who actually offered resistance when the government showed, was shot. 

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

The Bundy's & Co tried to invoke their individual right to defy the government in Oregon, but the only guy who actually offered resistance when the government showed, was shot. 

 

Perfectly consistent with liberal gun rights, including the government.   Guns are the tools of power.

Guns...guns...guns.     Good guys have 'em...bad guys have 'em...granny has 'em..and the government has 'em too.

[Dougie93]

Guns are tools, the power comes from the Homo Sapiens Sapiens weapon system and its resolve to organize and use the guns to impose outcomes.

Americans who invoke the power of the gun, generally end up shot for that,  either by another civilian, or the government.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Guns are tools, the power comes from the Homo Sapiens Sapiens weapon system and its resolve to organize and use the guns to impose outcomes.

Americans who invoke the power of the gun, generally end up shot for that,  either by another civilian, or the government.

 

So what ?   The firearms are still in the American domain and culture, legally and illegally.  

Most firearms are never used in a homicide.

[Dougie93]

So the gun is not actually powerful, it's all about the shooters not the guns, the gun itself doesn't empower you to do much, if you're not organized into an army.

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

So the gun is not actually powerful, it's all about the shooters not the guns, the gun itself doesn't empower you to do much, if you're not organized into an army.

 

The guns are plenty powerful...perps and other citizens prefer them over brass knuckles or nunchucks.

Just brandishing a firearm has explicit power.

 

Edited February 10, 2019 by bush_cheney2004

[Dougie93]

Plenty of Americans who will shoot you for brandishing, particularly the police.   And the police will get away with it, so really, just as in Canada, the police have the power, the lawful gun owners are at their mercy.