H10 Posted February 19, 2018 Report Posted February 19, 2018 Liberal gun grabbers just want to grab up all the guns. Shame on you, this is the right og all americans. Quote
H10 Posted February 19, 2018 Report Posted February 19, 2018 15 hours ago, Argus said: Are they? Has the supreme court ever actually affirmed this? Clearly gun controls are legal or there wouldn't be states with gun control. So how much control is actually acceptable under the 2nd amendment. And would that change if there were 5 Democrats on the SC instead of 5 Republicans? (and spare me the suggestion they have no political affiliation). Well the last case I can remember with gun rights going to the supreme court saw washington d.c. gun control struck down as anti-constitutional. At that time you had a swing vote and 4-4. But even with a liberal majority like in the 60s, I didn't see it get struck down. The US was not suppose to even have a standing army when the 2nd amendment was drafted. The militia was not suppose to come from the national government, probably not even the states. Most likely they envisioned the militia's coming from the local community. Look at how it is worded, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms..." its not the right of the state or the national or federal government. It would be presumed naturally a government can have militias and arms. So people here has to mean individuals. Lets be realistic, back in the 1770s most guns were 1 shot a minute and highly inaccurate unless you had like a column of 30 people shooting all at once. Further the US government was flat broke and didn't want to pay to field a national army, so it was easier to just say everyone protect yourself. It wasn't like Canada where the RCMP and army and police settling an area. In the US, they encouraged settlers to just go take land, use their guns to defend themselves from Indians. 14 hours ago, Kerfuffle said: Quote
Argus Posted February 19, 2018 Report Posted February 19, 2018 14 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: I don't own an AK....the Constitution provides for states' rights and differences. So how come only Democratic states seem to care what the people want? If 90% want background checks why do Republican states ignore their wishes? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 19, 2018 Report Posted February 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Argus said: So how come only Democratic states seem to care what the people want? If 90% want background checks why do Republican states ignore their wishes? Only about 10 states require universal background checks...two more for only handgun sales....others do not. One of those states, Nevada, is not a solid "Democratic" state. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Argus Posted February 19, 2018 Report Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Only about 10 states require universal background checks...two more for only handgun sales....others do not. One of those states, Nevada, is not a solid "Democratic" state. Are you going to deny the Republicans have been bought and paid for? That they have ignored and continue to ignore the wishes of their constituents in favor of money from the NRA? Edited February 19, 2018 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 19, 2018 Report Posted February 19, 2018 7 minutes ago, Argus said: Are you going to deny the Republicans have been bought and paid for? That they have ignored and continue to ignore the wishes of their constituents in favor of money from the NRA? No more than the Democrats' loyalty and dependence on money from special interest groups (Teachers Federation, Trial Lawyers, Planned Parenthood, MoveOn, etc.). Money matters in the U.S. regardless of ideology....it's how things get done. Lots of "wishes" in Canada get ignored too...so what ? 1 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
taxme Posted February 19, 2018 Report Posted February 19, 2018 On 2/15/2018 at 7:12 AM, Boges said: Kind of with BC on this. Why do we care if Americans keep shooting themselves? We have gun control and mass shootings are exceedingly rare in Canada but they have their own country. The politically motivated value relatively unrestricted gun ownership to the death of dozens of innocent people in a public space every few months. At least they're consistent. They don't want to restrict gun ownership even when a Muslim is the one doing the shooting. I get more worked up about the criminal they elected president than this. I wonder what would have happened if the principal and teachers of that school were trained and allowed to carry guns like many are suggesting these days? This fruit cake would probably have been shot before he could have done any damage. Hey, you never know. Quote
Kerfuffle Posted February 19, 2018 Author Report Posted February 19, 2018 34 minutes ago, taxme said: I wonder what would have happened if the principal and teachers of that school were trained and allowed to carry guns like many are suggesting these days? This fruit cake would probably have been shot before he could have done any damage. Hey, you never know. Better yet...have a small swat team installed in every school and every kid wear a bullet proof jacket.....that should be easier than bringing in gun control and would create 2-3 hundred thousand jobs.... Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 19, 2018 Report Posted February 19, 2018 29 minutes ago, Kerfuffle said: Better yet...have a small swat team installed in every school and every kid wear a bullet proof jacket.....that should be easier than bringing in gun control and would create 2-3 hundred thousand jobs.... Toronto already had many armed police (SROs) in high schools for years in response to gun violence, only recently voting a policy change. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Kerfuffle Posted February 19, 2018 Author Report Posted February 19, 2018 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Toronto already had many armed police (SROs) in high schools for years in response to gun violence, only recently voting a policy change. See you got something to build on......or give every kid a gun....2nd amendment says right to bear arms.... Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 19, 2018 Report Posted February 19, 2018 10 minutes ago, Kerfuffle said: See you got something to build on......or give every kid a gun....2nd amendment says right to bear arms.... Kids in Toronto area secondary schools already have them...no 2nd Amendment required. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Kerfuffle Posted February 19, 2018 Author Report Posted February 19, 2018 47 minutes ago, Kerfuffle said: Better yet...have a small swat team installed in every school and every kid wear a bullet proof jacket.....that should be easier than bringing in gun control and would create 2-3 hundred thousand jobs.... HaHA....I was being fasicious,,,,this knob is serious..... The National Rifle Association's vice president Wayne LaPierre called on Congress to "put armed police officers in every single school in this nation." that would be in roughly 120,000 schools.... Quote
Kerfuffle Posted February 19, 2018 Author Report Posted February 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Kerfuffle said: HaHA....I was being fasicious,,,,this knob is serious..... The National Rifle Association's vice president Wayne LaPierre called on Congress to "put armed police officers in every single school in this nation." that would be in roughly 120,000 schools.... Good to know that your $40.00 is paying a guy like this hey BC Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 19, 2018 Report Posted February 19, 2018 Gun violence was so rampant in Toronto area schools, armed police were deployed in 2008. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Kerfuffle Posted February 19, 2018 Author Report Posted February 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Gun violence was so rampant in Toronto area schools, armed police were deployed in 2008. Crime in Toronto has been relatively low in comparison to other major cities. A 2017 ranking of 60 cities by The Economist ranked Toronto as the fourth safest major city in the world, and the safest major city in North America.....hmmm could it be gun control making Toronto the safest major city in North America. However, 2007 saw another, smaller wave of gun violence starting in May with the shooting death of 15-year-old Jordan Manners at his school, C. W. Jefferys Collegiate Institute. ...I couldn't find the rampant gun violence in 2008 you talk about Quote
?Impact Posted February 19, 2018 Report Posted February 19, 2018 22 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Gun violence was so rampant in Toronto area schools, armed police were deployed in 2008. Right, once incident 10 years ago and things are rampant. How many were mowed down by an assault weapon during this incident you refer? There have been shootings in the US every single months since January 2015 (probably much longer as well, but I don`t have those statistics) with the sole exception of February of last year - that is what is called rampant gun violence. I did note however that the safest months to be in school are July & August, usually only 1-4 people shot a month during that time of year. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 19, 2018 Report Posted February 19, 2018 Just now, ?Impact said: Right, once incident 10 years ago and things are rampant. More than one incident...enough to justify armed SROs in "safe" Canadian secondary schools. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Kerfuffle Posted February 19, 2018 Author Report Posted February 19, 2018 Just now, bush_cheney2004 said: More than one incident...enough to justify armed SROs in "safe" Canadian secondary schools. Not really...in Canada one kids death is to many and we reacted to that with armed police in schools...how are the US making out on their problem...not to good id say. Quote
Hal 9000 Posted February 20, 2018 Report Posted February 20, 2018 Obama should have put armed security in schools after Sandy Hook. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Argus Posted February 20, 2018 Report Posted February 20, 2018 6 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: No more than the Democrats' loyalty and dependence on money from special interest groups (Teachers Federation, Trial Lawyers, Planned Parenthood, MoveOn, etc.). The teachers, trial lawyers, and planned parenthood are paying the Democrats to ignore what 90% of the electorate want? Such as? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted February 20, 2018 Report Posted February 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Hal 9000 said: Obama should have put armed security in schools after Sandy Hook. And then people would shoot kids in malls. So you want armed security in malls? Then they start shooting them at local football/baseball/hockey matches. You want armed guards there too? Here's a simpler idea: Make it hard for crazy people to get assault rifles. 2 Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 20, 2018 Report Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Argus said: The teachers, trial lawyers, and planned parenthood are paying the Democrats to ignore what 90% of the electorate want? Such as? School vouchers, school choice, tenure, abortion limits, right-to-work laws, etc., etc. Nothing special about the Democrat's funding sources and special interests compared to the NRA. 90% of southern Democrats wanted to keep slavery. Edited February 20, 2018 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
August1991 Posted February 20, 2018 Report Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) On 2/14/2018 at 7:23 PM, bush_cheney2004 said: Old, failed argument...criminals and the mentally ill don't care about legislation. b_c, you entirely miss the point. On the contrary... Criminals and the mentally ill, even in the US, don't yet have access to a nuclear weapon. Moreover, according to the 2nd Amendment, where do you draw the line: Should "the right to keep and bear arms" include a "nuclear tactical missile"? ===== Incidentally, the 2nd Amendment also includes the phrase "well-regulated militia". But frankly, I think the 2nd Amendment is a stupidity from the 18th century and should be abolished. I also think that the Federal Reserve should have similar stature as the Supreme Court - but in the 18th century, no one could imagine the importance of a Central Bank anymore than than Louis XVI or Thomas Jefferson or an early soldier of WWI could imagine a machine gun. Edited February 20, 2018 by August1991 Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 20, 2018 Report Posted February 20, 2018 Just now, August1991 said: b_c, you entirely miss the point. On the contrary... Criminals and the mentally ill, even in the US, don't yet have access to a nuclear weapon. Moreover, according to the 2nd Amendment, where do you draw the line: Should "the right to keep and bear arms" include a "nuclear tactical missile"? ===== The question has already been adjudicated by the only U.S. court that matters....Americans have the right to own and bear firearms (for now). It does not include nuclear, biological, chemical, or radiological weapons, pre-cursors, solid or liquid fueled rockets, plasma engines, rail guns, HE warheads, weaponized lasers, Gatling machine guns, rocket propelled grenades, shaped charges, dynamite, fuel air explosives, torpedoes, mines, cluster munitions, or brass knuckles. Those who insist on the limitations of late 18th century firearms technology must logically impose the same silly notions for other constitutionally protected freedoms. I personally had access to hundreds of thermonuclear warheads and delivery systems, regardless of the 2nd Amendment. Context matters.... Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
August1991 Posted February 20, 2018 Report Posted February 20, 2018 I have not read through this thread. The US Constitution is a remarkable document - but it's far from perfect. The 2nd Amendment should be repealed, amended. A smart politician could do this. Quote
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