The second amendment is failing the USA : Another school shooting!

[DogOnPorch]

But...minor...the PPSH needed the drum to be matched to the gun in order to work properly. Many drums didn't fit...or were loose...etc. Once you found two or three drums that functioned with that particular Burp Gun, you were apparently in business...Stalingrad style.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Yeah, but it had a bitchin' bayonet and dry fired with a distinctive click.    Kinda heavy though....we used them for drill in the 1970s.

 

My buddy is a collector...so I've fired it a few times myself. Yes...heavy. But I don't mind heavy guns.

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, DogOnPorch said:

But...minor...the PPSH needed the drum to be matched to the gun in order to work properly. Many drums didn't fit...or were loose...etc. Once you found two or three drums that functioned with that particular Burp Gun, you were apparently in business...Stalingrad style.

 

Agreed...drums are risky because you are dedicating a lot of rounds that may never load because of the mis-match.

Also, fully loading a high capacity mag invites malfunctions.  

We usually loaded only five rounds for the M1911 ACP to keep spring pressure down in the magazine.

 

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Agreed...drums are risky because you are dedicating a lot of rounds that may never load because of the mis-match.

Also, fully loading a high capacity mag invites malfunctions.  

We usually loaded only five rounds for the M1911 ACP to keep spring pressure down in the magazine.

 

 

The PPSH was pretty reliable due to simplicity...but yes...drums screw-up big time when they fail. Almost impossible to load in battle, too.

[bush_cheney2004]

Look at the bright side gun grabbers....gun nuts no longer rush out to buy more "assault rifles" after mass shootings because they know Congress ain't gonna do a damn thing to ban them.  

 

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Look at the bright side gun grabbers....gun nuts no longer rush out to buy more "assault rifles" after mass shootings because they know Congress ain't gonna do a damn thing to ban them.  

 

 

Nor should they. I tend to view this mainly as a policing issue...or lack there-of in Chicago's case. My city is FULL of guns...for a peaceful-ish Canadian city. Only the drug dealers blast away at each other...oddly enough...with their illegal weapons. Nobody gives a rat's rear when they off each other. Except perhaps for the traffic problems going around the crime scene.

[-TSS-]

According to statistics in 2016 there were 17500 homicides in the US. That makes it about 45 every day. I think that is a fairly plausible number for a country of 300 million people.

45 a day on average but when 17 happen in a single place that makes it a worldwide news.

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, DogOnPorch said:

 

Nor should they. I tend to view this mainly as a policing issue...or lack there-of in Chicago's case. My city is FULL of guns...for a peaceful-ish Canadian city. Only the drug dealers blast away at each other...oddly enough...with their illegal weapons. Nobody gives a rat's rear when they off each other. Except perhaps for the traffic problems going around the crime scene.

 

Absolutely...guns are quickly politicized when mass shootings kill students and teachers, but Chicago can be remain gangland shooting gallery without much national fuss.

How many politicians can a magazine hold ?

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, -TSS- said:

According to statistics in 2016 there were 17500 homicides in the US. That makes it about 45 every day. I think that is a fairly plausible number for a country of 300 million people.

45 a day on average but when 17 happen in a single place that makes it a worldwide news.

 

While the same folks concerned barely twitch an eyebrow when the latest suicide bomber offs 200 in a farmer's market in one of those 'shit hole' countries...hah.

[OftenWrong]

Terrorists are in the habit of using motor vehicles to run over large numbers of people. Therefore ban all cars...

[DogOnPorch]

5 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Terrorists are in the habit of using motor vehicles to run over large numbers of people. Therefore ban all cars...

High capacity magazine.

[OftenWrong]

13 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

High capacity magazine.

 

 

Nice.My weapon of choice-

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, OftenWrong said:

Nice.My weapon of choice-

 

 

One of my favorites. The 1955 Peterbilt 281...

[Scott Mayers]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

How many "assault military rifles" have you owned or fired ?

Do you know the difference between an AR-15 and M-16  or AK-47 ?

Do you know what size round each takes ?

Sorry, but it is a fact that rifles of all types are responsible for a very small portion of gun homicides.

YES. National Defense family (and why I lived in DC/Virginia) as a kid.

I used FNC-1 (semi-automatic) and FNC-2 (full) among other things, sub-machine guns and grenades. Examples FN C1 and C2 below:

I never learned to hunt anything but humans!  [Not a hunter!]

But this is all irrelevant.

 

 

[bush_cheney2004]

2 hours ago, Scott Mayers said:

...But this is all irrelevant.

 

Then you should know that AR-15 clones are commonly chambered for original .223 or 5.56mm rounds....smaller but higher velocity.

[DogOnPorch]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Then you should know that AR-15 clones are commonly chambered for original .223 or 5.56mm rounds....smaller but higher velocity.

 

My old AK-47 was 5.56 NATO...Norinco. 

Doubt one can easily get an older Factory 66 7.62 variety...must be bloody rare by now.

[Scott Mayers]

5 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Then you should know that AR-15 clones are commonly chambered for original .223 or 5.56mm rounds....smaller but higher velocity.

Please respond to my original questions to you. It appears the relevant questions I've asked were dishonestly skipped over by you. 

We resolved that you admitted the U.S. foundation for guns is NOT about 'virtue' but to 'power' and, you added, 'economics' (a form of power). If power then is not needed to be respectful of any virtue, how do you justify any of your arguments unless you are simply repeating yourself with no flexibility. That is, is there any argument by ANYONE here who could possibly move you to change your mind whether logically or emotionally (as in 'compassion')?

 

[To administration: For whatever reason, my options are limited in capacity to altering format and be able to add external content I had been able to before. It appears though that certain others here have that capacity uniquely. Is this functioning restricted to some members but not others? ]

[bush_cheney2004]

4 minutes ago, Scott Mayers said:

We resolved that you admitted the U.S. foundation for guns is NOT about 'virtue' but to 'power' and, you added, 'economics' (a form of power). If power then is not needed to be respectful of any virtue, how do you justify any of your arguments unless you are simply repeating yourself with no flexibility. That is, is there any argument by ANYONE here who could possibly move you to change your mind whether logically or emotionally (as in 'compassion')?

 

I already answered your question above, and no amount of flexibility or compassion on my part can change reality.

Minds are rarely changed on internet forums...this is certainly not my purpose here.

 

[Scott Mayers]

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

I already answered your question above, and no amount of flexibility or compassion on my part can change reality.

Minds are rarely changed on internet forums...this is certainly not my purpose here.

 

I'm noticing that minds don't seem be alterable. I think many often need time to let some logical arguments sink in because things like politics are EMOTIONALLY based with higher priority.

However, I'm feeling at a loss online when this is appears universal. Its making the Internet as a whole useless when the only 'functional' means it serves is to 'entertain' or act as honeypots for data gatherers intent on only DETERMINING WHO has what opinions and HOW they can use this to attempt to manipulate us. If there is no sincere 'forum' for honesty we are ALL in serious trouble for ALL mediums with closure now! That is, we appear to be 'censored' now with success. 

This should be a separate thread but relates here in that the gun issue will NEVER change. But GIVEN you are 'conservative', do you not think this JUSTIFIES the 'left' to simply IGNORE rational arguments either and why the present irrational Identity Politics of them are SO successful now? I don't approve of the Identity politics but it appears everyone is giving up on even TRYING to REASON when no amount of it matters in politics. IF POWER is all that matters, you are feeding the fuel of your enemies to simply recognize that they too must resort to it without 'forum' of the people. 

I'm disgusted and somewhat depressed on this. It's sad.

[Scott Mayers]

AND, given what I said, sorry for the common 'meme' today that I've always happen to think: 

I don't ask WHY someone like this kid shot up a school, but WHY NOT in this kind of climate of people unwilling to give two shits about reasoning. If emotions are all that matters, YOUR right-wing politics will ALWAYS win for simply existing.....even if only one in a million! This kid may be a 'victim' of our present political climate to which EVERYONE is guilty. That is itself an argument against guns that you should be able to recognize.  Since it won't change, do you think we should simply accept 'terrorism' as something we should adapt to or lose for being the passive bystander who gets shot for merely not HAVING a gun? Should we arm the children with weapons now too?

[bush_cheney2004]

19 minutes ago, Scott Mayers said:

I'm noticing that minds don't seem be alterable. I think many often need time to let some logical arguments sink in because things like politics are EMOTIONALLY based with higher priority.

 

Some use drugs to alter their minds and escape reality....has never been a problem for me.

 

Quote

However, I'm feeling at a loss online when this is appears universal. Its making the Internet as a whole useless when the only 'functional' means it serves is to 'entertain' or act as honeypots for data gatherers intent on only DETERMINING WHO has what opinions and HOW they can use this to attempt to manipulate us. If there is no sincere 'forum' for honesty we are ALL in serious trouble for ALL mediums with closure now! That is, we appear to be 'censored' now with success. 

 

 

Well, forums are entertainment, just like any other kind of social media.     It is content to be consumed.    This latest "mass shooting" is following the exact same steps that have been repeated many times before, including media excesses.    Clicks require content, whether it be honest or fake news.

 

Quote

This should be a separate thread but relates here in that the gun issue will NEVER change. But GIVEN you are 'conservative', do you not think this JUSTIFIES the 'left' to simply IGNORE rational arguments either and why the present irrational Identity Politics of them are SO successful now? I don't approve of the Identity politics but it appears everyone is giving up on even TRYING to REASON when no amount of it matters in politics. IF POWER is all that matters, you are feeding the fuel of your enemies to simply recognize that they too must resort to it without 'forum' of the people. 

I'm disgusted and somewhat depressed on this. It's sad.

 

It will take POWER (and more conflict) to have a chance at any meaningful changes to America's gun culture.   Winning matters more than righteous justification....lefties are still stunned that the likes of Donald Trump defeated their version of identity politics, and have done so for several election cycles in the U.S.   The pendulum will swing back and forth just as it always has.   "Gun control" was a major issue in the late 1960's as well after high profile assassinations and rising crime rates, but there was no internet back then.

There were three gun homicides in my metro area last night, and a Toronto chap was killed by a gun in Scarborough on Thursday.

...and so it goes.

Edited February 17, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[bush_cheney2004]

16 minutes ago, Scott Mayers said:

AND, given what I said, sorry for the common 'meme' today that I've always happen to think: 

I don't ask WHY someone like this kid shot up a school, but WHY NOT in this kind of climate of people unwilling to give two shits about reasoning. If emotions are all that matters, YOUR right-wing politics will ALWAYS win for simply existing.....even if only one in a million! This kid may be a 'victim' of our present political climate to which EVERYONE is guilty. That is itself an argument against guns that you should be able to recognize.  Since it won't change, do you think we should simply accept 'terrorism' as something we should adapt to or lose for being the passive bystander who gets shot for merely not HAVING a gun? Should we arm the children with weapons now too?

 

Terrorism has existed for a very long time whether it is accepted or not. Children can lawfully possess firearms in many states for hunting already.

200,000,000+ guns are owned in the U.S. without them being used illegally.   My main contention is that the rights of law abiding citizens should not be infringed because of illegal actions by criminals and the mentally ill.   The U.S. already has numerous gun laws, and some of the most restrictive are in areas with very high gun homicide rates (e.g. Chicago).  

It's a cliche', but guns don't kill people..people kill people.

Edited February 17, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[Scott Mayers]

4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Terrorism has existed for a very long time whether it is accepted or not. Children can lawfully possess firearms in many states for hunting already.

200,000,000+ guns are owned in the U.S. without them being used illegally.   My main contention is that the rights of law abiding citizens should not be infringed because of illegal actions by criminals and the mentally ill.   The U.S. already has numerous gun laws, and some of the most restrictive are in areas with very high gun homicide rates (e.g. Chicago).  

It's a cliche', but guns don't kill people..people kill people.

But I'm proving that the PEOPLE who kill ARE DUE to your type of thinking. So I'm using your own position to show you are being hypocritical. If people kill people and not guns, then YOU are one of those people because your selfish justification for holding guns requires others to REQUIRE having guns too, INCLUDING the 'mentally ill' (they too could [and DO sometimes] justly assert they are NOT 'mentally ill' but products of an intolerant leftist intent to disempower them and USE the charge of mental illness as its FALSE excuse.) 

Maybe you are 'mentally ill' in thinking guns are okay? But I notice you are also "anonymous" here which makes you more dangerous for 'concealing' your gun. 

[Scott Mayers]

bush_cheney2004,

You've (a) argued that Logic is irrelevant and (b) that even an Emotive appeals do not matter, only power.

Rationally, this proves you lack the POWER to further your argument on this....

 

.....unless you've got a gun concealed in your anonymous presence here?

Edited February 17, 2018 by Scott Mayers
Bold for ease to read better.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Scott Mayers said:

But I'm proving that the PEOPLE who kill ARE DUE to your type of thinking. So I'm using your own position to show you are being hypocritical. If people kill people and not guns, then YOU are one of those people because your selfish justification for holding guns requires others to REQUIRE having guns too, INCLUDING the 'mentally ill' (they too could [and DO sometimes] justly assert they are NOT 'mentally ill' but products of an intolerant leftist intent to disempower them and USE the charge of mental illness as its FALSE excuse.)

 

This doesn't make any sense....Americans of all political stripes have owned firearms concurrently since before the nation was founded.   The firearms continuum is far older than the Civil War, "settling" of the west, mobsters, gang bangers, or mass shooters.   Most murderers are not mentally ill.

If you are just emotionally lashing out at me for being a law abiding American gun owner, then I will take that as a compliment.