An opinion poll on Public versus Private health care system in Canada.

[Omni]

30 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

The tired dog whistle playbook of always pointing at the U.S. does nothing to improve Canada's failing health care system.

...it sorks.

 

It's never failed me, or bankrupted me either.

[OftenWrong]

The real problem with health care is excessive management bloat that wastes millions in every institution, coupled with administrative incompetence, poor decision making in planning for facilities and equipment, beds, medical staffing levels, poor relations with unions that leads to a completely adversarial relationship with management, reducing the quality of care. Just pray that you do not get any serious illness that requires immediate attention, especially in smaller towns across Canada. The big cities have a pretty decent level of competence and better response time, although the costs are orders of magnitude higher as a result.

Having said that, there are a lot of good people working in it who really do care, and there are far more success stories than there are problems.

[-TSS-]

Unfortunately, even in our much-vaunted Nordic nations the health care is fast going the way of yours in North-America. Pay or die! If you are over 65 then you are useless unless you've got money.

[cannuck]

1 hour ago, Omni said:

People in Canada for the most part don't have to worry about including their medical costs in their tax returns because they don't have to worry about paying in the first place. See how that sorks?

People in Canada never have to worry about being eligible for full medical coverage.  People in Canada never have to stay stuck in a job because they are afraid to lose their medical insurance.  People in Canada don't have to refrain from starting a small business because they can't afford decent medical coverage during a startup (that happens to be a lot more important than most realize).  People in Canada rarely go bankrupt due to medical bills.

Edited December 2, 2017 by cannuck

[bush_cheney2004]

10 minutes ago, cannuck said:

People in Canada never have to worry about being eligible for full medical coverage. 

 

Except when they do...for procedures and drug therapies that are not approved, and this varies by province.   They just have to worry about...dying.

[Omni]

8 minutes ago, cannuck said:

People in Canada never have to worry about being elibile for full medical coverage.  People in Canada never have to stay stuck in a job because they are afraid to lose their medical insurance.  People in Canada don't have to refrain from starging a small business because they can't afford decent medical coverage during a startup (that happens to be a lot more important than most realize).  People in Canada seldom go bankrupt due to medical bills.

Some years ago I was down in the states (Texas) doing training at Flight Safety and I came down with an eye infection (Iritis) I went to a walk in and the pain I was in they wouldn't let me  see anyone until they confirmed my balance available on my credit card. I got fixed up but it was a serious reminder of just how lucky I am to be Canadian.

[Omni]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Except when they do...for procedures and drug therapies that are not approved, and this varies by province.   They just have to worry about...dying.

No they don't. But you're free to suggest which life threatening scenario and in which province would you be ignored. Pre-existing condition in the US, no health care for you.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Omni said:

No they don't. But you're free to suggest which life threatening scenario and in which province would you be ignored. Pre-existing condition in the US, no health care for you.

 

Here is just one of many....the provinces have differing lists of approved procedures and therapies, so Canadians are treated differently depending on where they live.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/i-was-ready-to-die-b-c-s-uneven-coverage-for-rare-disease-drugs-leaves-patients-in-limbo-1.4419928

[Omni]

8 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Here is just one of many....the provinces have differing lists of approved procedures and therapies, so Canadians are treated differently depending on where they live.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/i-was-ready-to-die-b-c-s-uneven-coverage-for-rare-disease-drugs-leaves-patients-in-limbo-1.4419928

 health care a right? The United States remains the only developed country in the world unable to come to agreement on an answer. 

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/02/is-health-care-a-right

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Omni said:

 health care a right? The United States remains the only developed country in the world unable to come to agreement on an answer. 

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/02/is-health-care-a-right

 

More deflection when presented with facts about Canada's "universal" health care system that limits coverage, provides unequal access by province/territory, has stupidly long wait times, and prohibits private insurance solutions.

 

[Omni]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

More deflection when presented with facts about Canada's "universal" health care system that limits coverage, provides unequal access by province/territory, has stupidly long wait times, and prohibits private insurance solutions.

 

I think we all know who is deflecting. Wanna compare notes as to how many Canadians go bankrupt paying for healthcare compared to Americans. Psst...you lose.

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Omni said:

I think we all know who is deflecting. Wanna compare notes as to how many Canadians go bankrupt paying for healthcare compared to Americans. Psst...you lose.

 

Off topic...as usual.  

Waiting a year or two for cataract surgery is free....no bankruptcy !

[cannuck]

48 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Except when they do...for procedures and drug therapies that are not approved, and this varies by province.   They just have to worry about...dying.

An exceptionally extreme rarity, thus a red herring.

Fact is: even our admittadly broken system gets far btter results than the US system at half of the costs.

BTW:  if I need an immediate MRI, I just jump in my plane and an hour later I am in Edmonton or Calgary and can be home a couple of hours later with the deed done for a reasonable cost.  Yes, this varies province by province.  I can get the same thing here in SK, the birthplace of socialized medicine in Canada, but the clinic must provide a free MRI to the province for each (1 or 2, can't remember) private cash one given.  If Canadians want experimental drugs that are not yet approved here, they can go to the US, Mexico, Cuba, India - wherever they wish to experiment with unapproved drugs.

Edited December 2, 2017 by cannuck

[bush_cheney2004]

6 minutes ago, cannuck said:

An either extreme rarity, thus a red herring.

 

Not for her and others so impacted.  

Quote

Fact is: even our admittadly broken system gets far btter results than the US system at half of the costs.

 

Then why are so many Canadians fed up with the wait times and the excuses?   Why are people stacked in hospital hallways (not a good outcome) ?

Dog whistle comparisons to the U.S. do nothing to improve the system in Canada.

 

Quote

If Canadians want experimental drugs that are not yet approved here, they can go to the US, Mexico, Cuba, India - wherever they wish to exeriment with unapproved drugs.

 

If you read the article more carefully, the cited drug for her is already approved in Canada.

Access and therapies in Canada can be arbitrary based on province / territory.

Edited December 2, 2017 by bush_cheney2004

[cannuck]

9 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Not for her and others so impacted.  

 

Then why are so many Canadians fed up with the wait times and the excuses?   Why are people stacked in hospital hallways (not a good outcome) ?

Dog whistle comparisons to the U.S. do nothing to improve the system in Canada.

 

 

If you read the article more carefully, the cited drug for her is already approved in Canada.

Access and therapies in Canada can be arbitrary based on province / territory.

Not every Canadian hospital has big ER backups.  Very much like some US cities, my own observation and from other reports, the vast majority of ER visits seem to be from newly arrived Canadians.  Our out-of-control immigration contributes to ER overloads in big cities, as does urbanization.

Did not notice the link (on here while negotiating a deal with someone overseas, so mind wandering).  Sorry about that.

Yes, you are very right, things vary from province to province, as they do in the US from state to state.  Sick care is a provincial responsibility with some federal oversight.

[Omni]

10 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Not for her and others so impacted.  

 

Then why are so many Canadians fed up with the wait times and the excuses?   Why are people stacked in hospital hallways (not a good outcome) ?

Dog whistle comparisons to the U.S. do nothing to improve the system in Canada.

 

 

If you read the article more carefully, the cited drug for her is already approved in Canada.

Access and therapies in Canada can be arbitrary based on province / territory.

The federal government provides funding to each province who in turn administer health care. Provinces do vary somewhat in things they do or don't fund. But nobody goes broke paying for life threatening illnesses. And they cannot be refused care due to pre existing conditions. How many friggin' months will Trump etal argue back and forth while nothing gets done? We sorted this out back in Tommy Douglas time. Ever heard of him?

[cannuck]

8 minutes ago, Omni said:

We sorted this out back in Tommy Douglas time. Ever heard of him? 

Tommy the Commie?  You mean Kiefer Sutherland's grandpa.  I knew he was famous for something.

Edited December 2, 2017 by cannuck

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, cannuck said:

Not every Canadian hospital has big ER backups.  Very much like some US cities, my own observation and from other reports, the vast majority of ER visits seem to be from newly arrived Canadians.  Our out-of-control immigration contributes to ER overloads in big cities, as does urbanization.

Did not notice the link (on here while negotiating a deal with someone overseas, so mind wandering).  Sorry about that.

Yes, you are very right, things vary from province to province, as they do in the US from state to state.  Sick care is a provincial responsibility with some federal oversight.

 

We could debate these well known symptoms (pun intended) all night, but that would do nothing to address the OP's main contention:   Public + private solutions and options for Canada.    Instead, the discussion here always goes down the same "U.S." rabbit hole, ignoring other foreign approaches with better performance.

The U.S. has no universal access system, so variations by province and territory are more politically acute.

 

[Omni]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

The U.S. has no universal access system

That's the bottom line.

[cannuck]

B-C:  Your are right, and I think I addressed the Canadian deficiencies in an earlier post.  I go down that rathole because I have larger business presence in the US than Canada, and sick care is a big deal for us.

[Thinkinoutsidethebox]

Keep it public... Health care should be right not a luxury. Each and every person should have equal access.

It bugs me some believe those who are lucky enough to be wealthy should have better access to healthcare than others that aren't. 

As I've stated I think our healthcare system is top notch, maybe it could use tuning and streamlining but we need to keep it. 

As for wait times those that bitch the loudest are the same ones that whine about street cleaning nor being fast enough, high municipal taxes, no meals on domestic flights, the cost of domestic flights, long lines at DMVs, the cost of getting a driver's licence, hot weather, cold weather, wind, rain, sunshine etc., Here's a suggestion, maybe stop complaining and appreciate what we actually have. Expecting a doctor on your doorstep the second you have the sniffles is way over the top. 

[cannuck]

I voted to remain "public" but the problems that DO exist are not just because of public funding, but legislation that tries to deny me the freedom to "go around" and take personal responsibility.    The whinning about "two tier" and all of that crap is political dogma that seriously impinges upon my personal freedom to do what I may need to do to protect my own or my family's health.  The anser is to look at how much better other countries work as they allow full access to an unlimited range of private services without in any way trying to establish a public monopoly - as we do in Canada.  As I mentioned in one post to B-C, we are starting to get that in SK and AB (and I think Quebec due to a charter challenge), but we still have a long way to go.

 

BTW: not getting timely access to treatment in an ER is a VERY long way from the problems of not getting snow cleared int me

Edited December 2, 2017 by cannuck

[dre]

On 12/1/2017 at 1:07 PM, ?Impact said:

I thought anyone that graduated from a Canadian or American medical school almost automatically got a residency. I know there is a problem with other foreign medical school graduates, but that is because they didn't pass our medical exams (including language exams). Now limits on places in a Canadian medical school is a different issue.

Incorrect. Thousands of doctors PASS our medical exams and still wait years for residency, many eventually just give up. The doctor shortage is manufactured by doctors to drive up their own wages.

[eyeball]

32 minutes ago, dre said:

The doctor shortage is manufactured by doctors to drive up their own wages.

Between these bastards and the ones working in collusion with Big Pharma to get Canadians addicted to pain killers there's these charmers.

Quote

 

Licensed to bill: How doctors profit from injury assessments that benefit insurers

Doctors are taking in millions of dollars a year by putting their names to accident injury reports for the insurance industry. Some of these reports unfairly discredit injury claims, leaving victims intimidated and exhausted. But because the majority settle out of court, the practice is hidden from public scrutiny.

Story

 

Remember that old joke about lawyers on the bottom of the ocean?  They seem a lot less evil than doctors these days.

[?Impact]

1 hour ago, dre said:

Incorrect. Thousands of doctors PASS our medical exams and still wait years for residency, many eventually just give up. The doctor shortage is manufactured by doctors to drive up their own wages.

There were 68 unmatched residency graduates from Canadian medical schools this year (yes it is the highest in recent years), not the 1000s you suggest. You are talking about International medical graduates, not Canadian or American. Note that the largest number of unfilled positions (over 95%) is for family medicine, that is because the students want to specialize and there are limited positions for their specialities. If more wanted to be family doctors, then we would have no problem at all. I am not sure where you get your information from, I generally go to an official source and not someone with an agenda.

 

All the details can be found here (pages 48-51 are most relevant): 

Edited December 9, 2017 by ?Impact