Democracy is big nonsense

[Altai]

Democracy is a big nonsense because having more votes does not make something right. When we have the same informations, we all will end up with the same logical results. In some aspects of life, for example in politics, there are soo much information and therefore people in general does not bother themselves to reach in deep information and they simply choose the informations which fits with their personal ego to build their perspective. This topic is directly related with my another topic "There is nothing to discuss". 

We dont make true or false decides. We are just realizing or missing the logic. Logic is always there, even if we miss or reject to recognize it when it does not fit with our personal interests/ego.

[capricorn]

You clearly don't like the democratic system of governance. Then what would be your preferred political system?

[sharkman]

Hmm, I could have sworn that it was little nonsense only.  Big nonsense would be reserved for the style of governments that allow them to kill their people at will or lock them up for speaking out against said government.  

[Altai]

2 hours ago, capricorn said:

You clearly don't like the democratic system of governance. Then what would be your preferred political system?

I dont know, maybe a software. So we could write a software and distribute it to every citizens to prevent any kind of abuse and distortion. We can update it from time to time. There will still be government and officials but they will just apply the duties given by the software.

Any other ideas ?

[scribblet]

Oh sure, then the hackers would having a field day.   I'd rather have our (Canada) style of Democracy than a dictatorship, even a benign dictatorship.   I suppose if you enjoy living in  a brutal dictatorship it's your choice.  

[Michael Hardner]

Democracy depends on a people that edifies itself to better itself.  The political class can more easily flatter the masses in order to get elected, which conflicts with edification.

There is and should be a hierarchy, and we need leaders to lead.

There will never be software to do this.

[Argus]

2 hours ago, capricorn said:

You clearly don't like the democratic system of governance. Then what would be your preferred political system?

An Islamic state, of course, where all must follow the laws of Islam.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

An Islamic state, of course, where all must follow the laws of Islam.

Is that really what the OP is saying ?

[Argus]

34 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Is that really what the OP is saying ?

Based on her previous comments and what other people wrote, I extrapolated, and, I think, correctly.

[Michael Hardner]

18 minutes ago, Argus said:

Based on her previous comments and what other people wrote, I extrapolated, and, I think, correctly.

More hyperbolic Godwinism.  Shrieking platitudes is not what we need, we have a President for that.  

[bush_cheney2004]

Democracy is better served by directly elected presidents compared to unelected party leaders.

[sharkman]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

More hyperbolic Godwinism.  Shrieking platitudes is not what we need, we have a President for that.  

The thread title is a shrieking platitude.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, sharkman said:

The thread title is a shrieking platitude.

Some shrieking platitudes are more equal than others.  I  think Argus's logic is unassailable.

One reaps what one sows.

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

 I  think Argus's logic is unassailable.

 

Conjecture is unassailable ?  That's a new one.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

Conjecture is unassailable ?  That's a new one.

Conjecture is based on incomplete information.  That's certainly not the case here.  And I hardly read her.

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Conjecture is based on incomplete information.  That's certainly not the case here.  And I hardly read her.

It's a guess... not unassailable.  Use better words.

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

It's a guess... not unassailable.  Use better words.

A fairly well educated guess. 

[Ash74]

11 hours ago, Altai said:

I dont know, maybe a software. So we could write a software and distribute it to every citizens to prevent any kind of abuse and distortion. We can update it from time to time. There will still be government and officials but they will just apply the duties given by the software.

Any other ideas ?

The problem with that is if higher taxes are needed the people will likely vote against it and there are times taxes need to be raised. The elected dictators we have now are still kept in check by the rest of the government.

Trump has the position of the most powerful man in the world but even he cannot change pass any legislation without support from lower elected officials. 

Democracy is not pretty but it beats any alternative I have seen

[Altai]

When you elect officials, you are allowing them to rule country as they wish. So this is a half-dictatorship. Another important point is all of the candidates are the puppets of some behind-the-scenes powers. Money barons...weapon companies....army....media....anyone who has the power in a way. So while you are electing someone in Canada, you are actually making a decision between people predetermined by the "Queen". This is a complate dictatorship. In US people are making a deicision between people predetermined by army and money barons. This is a complate dictatorship... Recent example is France, they had two candidates and both were trained by money barons and people chose one of them. Complate dictatorship. The same thing goes for all the other countries in the World, all their presidents and officials are predetermined by US or Britain. If these countries lose the control, they start to attack these govts which they cant control even if these govts are democratically elected, like as Venezuela and my country Turkiye. 


So in current systems, we are always ruled by half-dictatorships or complate dictatorships. We are just given "democracy" lollipop in our mouth to shut up. 


We are always having disagreements because at least one side rejects to recognize information and logic based on the information. A simple example, we all know that alcoholic beverages are harmful, does not matter take a sip or drink whole bottle. Some people will claim that its their choice even if its harmful and they will simply ignore another information that it will harm whole public order in long term. In this case we need to ban alcoholic beverages. Information and logic bring us to this result but there will be millions even billions will oppose it just because of they like to drink it, so democracy  will probably bring us to a wrong decision. 

Edited August 9, 2017 by Altai

[hot enough]

On 8/8/2017 at 11:42 AM, sharkman said:

Hmm, I could have sworn that it was little nonsense only.  Big nonsense would be reserved for the style of governments that allow them to kill their people at will or lock them up for speaking out against said government.  

We really are going to have to establish some base that holds a measure of reality from which these discussions can flow. The USA DOES NOT create democracies. The US establishes brutal, right wing dictatorships which are then instructed to murder those who want to see democracy put in place, people who want to see the colonial thieves' systems dismantled. 

In Vietnam, as an example, Eisenhower knew as did all his war criminal henchmen and all the elected representatives that the people of Vietnam wanted Ho Chi Minh as their leader because he was totally dedicated to giving his people their independence. So the US scuttled planned UN elections. 

Killing people at will and/or locking them up is what the USA does, mostly the former. The tens of millions slaughtered by the US stand as testament to the fact that the US doesn't do democracy.

 

Quote

A Brief History of U.S. Interventions: 
1945 to the Present

by William Blum

Z magazine , June 1999

 

The engine of American foreign policy has been fueled not by a devotion to any kind of morality, but rather by the necessity to serve other imperatives, which can be summarized as follows:

* making the world safe for American corporations;

* enhancing the financial statements of defense contractors at home who have contributed generously to members of congress;

* preventing the rise of any society that might serve as a successful example of an alternative to the capitalist model;

* extending political and economic hegemony over as wide an area as possible, as befits a "great power."

This in the name of fighting a supposed moral crusade against what cold warriors convinced themselves, and the American people, was the existence of an evil International Communist Conspiracy, which in fact never existed, evil or not.

The United States carried out extremely serious interventions into more than 70 nations in this period.

...

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/US_Interventions_WBlumZ.html

 

[-TSS-]

If voting made any real difference it would be banned as subversive action.

[drummindiver]

On 08/08/2017 at 6:30 PM, Argus said:

Based on her previous comments and what other people wrote, I extrapolated, and, I think, correctly.

Two kinds of people in this world. Those who can extrapolate from incomplete information.

[Altai]

On 09.08.2017 at 8:32 AM, Ash74 said:

The problem with that is if higher taxes are needed the people will likely vote against it and there are times taxes need to be raised. The elected dictators we have now are still kept in check by the rest of the government.

Trump has the position of the most powerful man in the world but even he cannot change pass any legislation without support from lower elected officials. 

Democracy is not pretty but it beats any alternative I have seen

I am saying even the president itself is a puppet, I dont even mention lower ones. I remember recently one of them was talking about Turkiye and he thought that Istanbul is our capital city. So he has no information but have an idea. This is dangerous. His name is Paul Ryan and he is the leader of Assembly of Representatives. He is talking about something which he has no information because he is the puppet of someones and they want him to speak against Turkiye and he obeys his owners.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Altai

[hot enough]

This is what democracy really is. There are actually Americans, and others who still repeat the Lincoln nonsense about "government of the people, by ... " because it makes them feel they have some importance. 

Noam Chomsky - "The general public are viewed as no more than ignorant and meddlesome outsiders, a bewildered herd. And it's the responsible men who have to make decisions and to protect society from the trampling and rage of the bewildered herd. Now since it's a democracy they - the herd, that is - are permitted occasionally to lend their weight to one or another member of the responsible class. That's called an election."    

 

 

[Altai]

"Democracy is the worst form of government, except all the others."  British vampir Churchil

Edited August 10, 2017 by Altai