Refugee crisis escalating

[betsy]

On 8/23/2017 at 0:58 PM, capricorn said:

I doubt you read the link I provided which explained quite clearly the situation in Cornwall. A couple of salient points:

Yes, it will be interesting to see how the situation develops when the cold weather moves in and snow begins to fall. Even the federal Minister of Immigration said that the present situation is unpredictable. Is there a plan going forward? If there is, where's that plan?

I bet anyone who gets frostbitten will automatically get approved..........after their ordeal in crossing the wintry landscape is hyped up by the liberal media. 

Edited August 25, 2017 by betsy

[Goddess]

1 hour ago, betsy said:

I bet anyone who gets frostbitten will automatically get approved..........

Plus we'll have to pay them millions in compensation for their frostbite.

[betsy]

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

Plus we'll have to pay them millions in compensation for their frostbite.

....and we'll  most likely be liable.  Thanks to Justin's open invitation.

"What do you mean we aren't qualified?  You said everyone is welcome!"

It's like an ad placed by Justin......... we'll be sued for false advertisement.

 

Edited August 25, 2017 by betsy

[Goddess]

7 minutes ago, betsy said:

....and we'll  most likely be liable.  Thanks to Justin's open invitation.

"What do you mean we aren't qualified?  You said everyone is welcome!"

It's like an ad placed by Justin......... we'll be sued for false advertisement.

 

Exactly.

[hot enough]

17 hours ago, Rue said:

So of course left wing prescriptions have had no negative consequences? You now going to pretend excessive government spending and the deficits it causes aids you or anyone else. Tell me has Trudeau's spendinggiven you anything in the last two years? He's saddled the next 5 generations with an escalating interest rate on the deficit he has created and  this country can not pay back.  Yah that's quite the solution-bankrupt future generations to an out of control spiralling debt triggering recession. That's a better solution

What fabulous embellishment, exaggeration, magnification, overstatement, stretching, fabrication, misrepresentation hyperbole, Rue. 

What sections of the sky have fallen so far? Over China, the UK, the Arctic?

 

[Rue]

4 hours ago, hot enough said:

What fabulous embellishment, exaggeration, magnification, overstatement, stretching, fabrication, misrepresentation hyperbole, Rue. 

What sections of the sky have fallen so far? Over China, the UK, the Arctic?

 

I of course won't respond directly to the poster who stated the above as he does not have the capability of understanding what I was referring to and so comes back spewing gibberish that has nothing to do with what I was discussing in an attempt to do what he does, bring attention to himself.

The topic I was discussing is classic liberalism and whether it does any good for anyone.

I referred to how classic liberal thought advocates government spending and incurring deficits as a method of stimulating the economy.

Here is the actual debt:

http://www.debtclock.ca/

Here is the government spending and Trudeau's contribution to the deficit:

https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/government-spending

What I stated is that Trudeau is running  up a huge deficit estimated at 50 billion for 2016 and 2017 and has said h e will continue to do so  after that.

This deficit spending is classic and perfect example of the liberal idea that  governments can  solve problems by running up debts to stimulate the economy.

Liberals believe in government spending and its a classic example of thinking such an exercise benefits people and its what Eye and Omni and leftists believe in.

What others like myself and many others argue is that when governments spend to "boost" he economy as they claim it does, they also "boost" the interest rates on the debt the escalate.

The effect of those escalating interest rates many of us argue do more harm to the economy than any short term stimulation of the economy because they direcly lead to increases in the cost to borrow money for you and I whether its for our businesses, home mortgages or on our credit cards, car loans.

 Its also a fact that  government spending is not something that can be sustained, so necessarily it has a 1, 2 maybe 3 year impact if nay, enough to get a politician re-elected but far from being able to create changes that allow the economy to continue to sustain itself without the continued government spending.

When public interest rates increases the cost of private sector borrowing which doesn't stimulate economic growth but does the exact opposite. For every dollar our governments spend us into deficit, up goes, our borrowing costs as individuals goes up and this means government spending is triggering putting each individual Canadian into deeper debt on their private financial matters whether it be business, or domestic purchases, mortgages, credit cards.

This is why I and many business people or common every day Canadians do not believe government spending is a panacea as liberals do. We believe it is causing great harm to future generations who necessarily inherit huge carrying costs on loans, i.e., interest rates.

Your run up any debt for short term gain, of course their are long term consequences and this is why many of us argue for example putting Haitiens in tents and on welfare like all liberal fixes, is temporary and feel good in the moment, but in the long term solves, nothing an din fact makes it worse by failing to do the right thing which is not going to be feel good but may be  necessary.

Politicians don't get elected doing the right thing-they get elected saying the right thing-feel good messages

Trudeau and Trump got elected telling people what they wanted to hear, not what they had to hear.

The deficits the Ontario government has incurred in the name of liberal spending is a fiscal disaster. The exodus of businesses from Ontario is public and is well know. Ontario has gone from a have to have not province precisely because of deficit financing between the NDP and Liberals.

Bankrupting Ontario has not done a damn thing for the poor or to rectify injustice as Eye would say. More people have ended up at fod banks during the McGuinty-Wynne era than in the Harris era, ironically.

.

.

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2017 by Rue

[marcus]

On 8/22/2017 at 9:01 AM, Argus said:

 

A successful Haitian refugee in a fancy suit is not going to discourage Haitians from going to Canada on the off chance they might eventually be rejected.

Haitian-Canadian MP Emmanuel Dubourg will travel to Miami on Wednesday to try and counter misinformation which has driven thousands of Haitian asylum seekers to Canada in recent months.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/haitian-canadian-mp-heads-to-miami-to-address-would-be-asylum-seekers

My mistake. I thought you were talking about the Canadian immigration minister.

I think it's a great idea to send a Haitian to communicate with Haitians about how the rumours of how it's easy and simple to come into Canada as a refugee are simply not true. 

 

[betsy]

3 hours ago, marcus said:

My mistake. I thought you were talking about the Canadian immigration minister.

I think it's a great idea to send a Haitian to communicate with Haitians about how the rumours of how it's easy and simple to come into Canada as a refugee are simply not true. 

 

Haitians don't all reside in Florida.  El Salvadorans will be next.  Do we have any MP from El Salvador?

 

The very first step would be for Trudeau to tweet, and also state publicly that he was misunderstood about his open invitation!    Of course, any drowning man will grasp at anything!  He created this mess by giving false hope.  He has to own it, and correct it!

 

What's happening are MPs going on a USA tour just to explain about this fiasco.  In the meantime, we - the taxpayers - will be shelling out more money to fund this "corrections tour!" 

The Liberals simply don't have any respect for taxpayers, and they're spending like drunks!  They just live for the moment - to hell with the future!

Edited August 26, 2017 by betsy

[Argus]

7 hours ago, marcus said:

My mistake. I thought you were talking about the Canadian immigration minister.

I think it's a great idea to send a Haitian to communicate with Haitians about how the rumours of how it's easy and simple to come into Canada as a refugee are simply not true. 

But hey ARE true. 

[-TSS-]

Here in Finland it appears that the attacker of the knife-attacks in Turku which are investigated as a terrorist-crime had not been totally honest in the questionings. He claimed to be 18 but now it has emerged that he was born in 1994. Oops...

The city of Turku is well-known for being a red-green city. So, I have no doubt about that the eight women who survived the stabbings will vote in the next elections red-green parties again. Parties which favour bringing in more similar people in the name of human-rights.

[jacee]

"While the prime minister calls on people escaping Trump's America to follow the rules, experts say Canada is nowhere near its economic limits for immigration." http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/refugees-trump-economics-canada-1.4262471

Evidence shows immigrants don't eat a piece of a limited pie. They make the pie bigger. 

"The first generation may struggle, but what Statistics Canada has actually shown is that the children of immigrants do very well and that's across the immigrant categories," says Clark-Kazak.

"One would expect the children of highly skilled workers to do well, but actually the children of refugees also are more likely, for example, go to university than Canadian-born," she says.

Of course such a system would likely break down if, as in some Middle Eastern countries, the refugee population were bigger than that of the original host country, but studies around the world have shown that more moderate, but still high, levels of immigration are consistent with economic success. Others show immigration has no net effect.

Half a million a year

"There have been many many studies that show when it comes to Canada we could absorb, easily, 500,000 immigrants a year," says CIGI's Bessma Momani, co-author of the book Diversity Dividend: Canada's Global Advantage. That half million economic capacity compares to the current intake of between 200,000 and 300,000.

Canada's population is aging. Without immigration Statistics Canada says growth would stall.

This is the economic reality of the net effects of immigrants and refugees coming to Canada: Zero to positive effects on the economy.

Rather, the concerns a minority of Canadians express often reflect cultural and racial biases.

I suspect that those concerns are minimal among those of us who interact daily with diverse cultures in Canada's urban core areas.

I suspect that many of those who express racial/cultural concerns may have fears of the 'unknown', something that is unfamiliar to them.

I read something about deprogramming white supremacists that said the sickness primarily arises from childhood trauma and fear.

IE, it's an anxiety disorder and it often responds to treatment as such.

Edited August 28, 2017 by jacee

[Argus]

19 hours ago, -TSS- said:

Here in Finland it appears that the attacker of the knife-attacks in Turku which are investigated as a terrorist-crime had not been totally honest in the questionings. He claimed to be 18 but now it has emerged that he was born in 1994. Oops...

He came in 2 years ago, right? They have learned that if they claim to be under age they won't be sent back. The UK has had a number of media discussions about these so-called underage migrant boys who look closer to thirty than thirteen.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Argus

[Argus]

36 minutes ago, jacee said:

Half a million a year

"There have been many many studies that show when it comes to Canada we could absorb, easily, 500,000 immigrants a year," says CIGI's Bessma Momani, co-author of the book Diversity Dividend: Canada's Global Advantage. That half million economic capacity compares to the current intake of between 200,000 and 300,000.

An Arab Canadian from the Trudeau foundation says we should have more immigration. Shocker. Many studies, eh? I notice she cites none of them.

 

[bush_cheney2004]

59 minutes ago, jacee said:

"While the prime minister calls on people escaping Trump's America to follow the rules, experts say Canada is nowhere near its economic limits for immigration." http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/refugees-trump-economics-canada-1.4262471

 

 

People escaping Trudeau's Canada for the U.S. should "follow the rules" too, but many don't.

[marcus]

32 minutes ago, Argus said:

An Arab Canadian from the Trudeau foundation says we should have more immigration. Shocker. Many studies, eh? I notice she cites none of them.

You are correct. Shouldn't be trusted.

Them A-rabs are all against us white folks.

[marcus]

On 8/26/2017 at 3:45 AM, betsy said:

Haitians don't all reside in Florida.  El Salvadorans will be next.  Do we have any MP from El Salvador?

 

The very first step would be for Trudeau to tweet, and also state publicly that he was misunderstood about his open invitation!    Of course, any drowning man will grasp at anything!  He created this mess by giving false hope.  He has to own it, and correct it!

 

What's happening are MPs going on a USA tour just to explain about this fiasco.  In the meantime, we - the taxpayers - will be shelling out more money to fund this "corrections tour!" 

The Liberals simply don't have any respect for taxpayers, and they're spending like drunks!  They just live for the moment - to hell with the future!

You are one of the biggest whiners I have seen on any board.

The importance of the trip to the U.S. to meet community leaders in order to educate them on the refugee system aside, It's not like it was a secret that Trudeau was going to spend money. He made it known that he was going to spend money during his first few years and that this was going to be his approach. His party ended up getting elected on this platform..

[Rue]

1 hour ago, marcus said:

You are correct. Shouldn't be trusted.

Them A-rabs are all against us white folks.

Well it certainly applies to you with Jews and Israelis now doesn't it.

He didn't actually refer to all Arabs, just one,  like I am now.

Or are you suggesting Trudeau does not pander to ethnics  by choosing minorities with a direct and vested interest in the topics they provide advise on, i.e., his Immigration Minister, his Middle East advisor.

 Give it a rest, If Trudeau had chosen a Jewish person not Omar Alleghbra as his Middle East advisor, and that individual was as anti Palestine and anti Muslim  as Alleghbra is anti Israeli  and antii semitic,  you'd be the first on here slurring him for being a Jew and demanding his resignation.. 

Edited August 28, 2017 by Rue

[jacee]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

An Arab Canadian from the Trudeau foundation says we should have more immigration. Shocker. Many studies, eh? I notice she cites none of them.

 

You just have to follow the embedded link in my quote to find them, Argus. 

The Diversity Dividend
The WES data set revealed a strong positive, 
significant relationship between ethnocultural 
diversity in the workplace and both increased 
workplace productivity and revenue. Specifically, 
a one percent increase in ethnocultural diversity 
was associated with an average 2.4 percent 
increase in revenue across the 7,900 workplaces 
surveyed. Similarly, a one percent increase in 
ethnocultural diversity was associated with 
an average 0.5 percent increase in workplace 
productivity. Positive revenue growth was found 
in 13 out of 14 sectors measured and positive 
productivity growth in nine out of 14 sectors. As 
noted in Figure 3, the Canadian industries with 
the strongest performance boost were information 
and cultural industries, business services and 
transportation, warehousing and wholesale, with 
an increase in revenue of more than three percent. 
Other industries, including secondary product 
manufacturing, transportation, communications/
utilities and forestry, mining, oil and gas 
extraction all showed above-average results. 
Assessing the statistical findings did, however, 
produce a classic dilemma of which came first, 
workplace diversity or economic prosperity? 
So, while there are very strong relationships in 
diversity and economic prosperity indicators in 
the quantitative data findings, it was necessary 
to speak to business and other stakeholders 
and to look at the academic literature to help 
explain the potential mechanisms or causes. 

The Business Perspective
To complement the quantitative research, 
the authors hosted round tables in seven 
cities with more than 100 of Canada’s leading 
private- and public-sector employers, as 
well as with industry associations, labour 
unions, settlement organizations, and 
provincial and municipal officials. Executives 
confirmed what the quantitative data shows: 
workplace diversity is good for business. 
They also explained why this is the case.

 

I'm not quoting "why". You can read it for yourself. 

[betsy]

2 hours ago, marcus said:

You are one of the biggest whiners I have seen on any board.

The importance of the trip to the U.S. to meet community leaders in order to educate them on the refugee system aside, It's not like it was a secret that Trudeau was going to spend money. He made it known that he was going to spend money during his first few years and that this was going to be his approach. His party ended up getting elected on this platform..

Why do you need to educate COMMUNITY LEADERS?    Educate them about what?    Are they the ones who's trying to cross the border?

Maybe, community leaders know more than Trudeau!  What mature, and educated leader doesn't realize the outcome of what Trudeau had issued?

  Even some of us here, knew enough what to expect the moment he issued that invitation!

 

 

If I'm a whiner to you......

.........it's because there's something really serious to whine about! 

 

UNNECESSARY EXPENDITURES!

 

This PM has created a big boondogle when he decided to be twitter-happy with a big fat invitation for all - in his attempt to make himself look good in comparison to Trump.  And then, he opened his big mouth on Canada Day, and re-issued another open invitation!   

If it hasn't occured to you yet..... we're all paying for his VACUOUS decisions!

Edited August 28, 2017 by betsy

[taxme]

On 8/23/2017 at 5:15 AM, GostHacked said:

I guess most here completeley missed the human trafficking aspect that Goodale has suspected and put forth this week.  I mean someone is helping them get here.  Otherwise we would not be seeing this high of a number for the people coming in.

I wonder if I should dare say that all of this legal and illegal immigration going on could be a part of a conspiracy? I know that there are some here who do not believe in such things as conspiracies. How foolish of them to believe so. These so-called refugees are coming to Canada all the way from Africa. How can they be considered poor refugees when they must of had plenty of money to be able to fly here with their wife and kids all the way to America first and then enter Canada later. They all looked well dressed also crossing our border. There is something wrong with this picture. 

I am to the point now that I am willing to suggest that Canada put it's military soldiers on the Border between Canada and America, and to fire on anyone who dares try to cross our border. One warning shot over their heads should do it. It does sound like a drastic thing to want to suggest but what else is left? We are either willing to protect our borders and our immigration policies from being abused or just open up the dam border gates and let the whole million to 2 million refugees just walk right on in. It's time to take a hard stand. Enough already.

It is costing the Canadian taxpayer's of Canada hundreds of millions of their tax dollars every year to try and feed and clothe and house all the ones that make it here. It's time for some tough love. Canada and Canadians must not be allowed to keep getting screwed by the rest of the world and the scum in Canada and overseas who are behind this. If needed they should be arrested and charged for encouraging illegal criminal activities. Just saying.  

[Rue]

54 minutes ago, betsy said:

Why do you need to educate COMMUNITY LEADERS?    Educate them about what?    Are they the ones who's trying to cross the border?

Maybe, community leaders know more than Trudeau!  What mature, and educated leader doesn't realize the outcome of what Trudeau had issued?

  Even some of us here, knew enough what to expect the moment he issued that invitation!

 

 

If I'm a whiner to you......

.........it's because there's something really serious to whine about! 

 

UNNECESSARY EXPENDITURES!

 

This PM has created a big boondogle when he decided to be twitter-happy with a big fat invitation for all - in his attempt to make himself look good in comparison to Trump.  And then, he opened his big mouth on Canada Day, and re-issued another open invitation!   

If it doesn't occured to you yet..... we're all paying for his VACUOUS decisions!

When Marcus comes on the forum and engages in his repeat piss on Israel threads and responses, its not whining. When you come on this thread and express an opinion he disagrees with its whining.

Now that said, by the time Community Leaders are stuck with the negative impact of poorly thought out immigration policy its too late. The time to discuss such issues is long before it becomes a community issue or even an actual immigration policy.Idiots like Trudeau don't think. They spit out whatever sound bite sounds good at the moment to pander to a potential voter and then delegative any negative consequence of what they said to another layer of government other than their own. Its why provinces develop isolationist tendencies. They see people like Trudeau and his version of government  working at direct cross purposes to their best interests and he does. When you get big city Mayors claiming to be sanctuary cities its crass politics at its worse. Their mayors see the influx of immigrants as potential voters to pander to and a source to get federal funding. At the provincial level it causes huge negative consequences to education and health services because of the sky rocketing demand for both and an inability to keep up with the demand without increasing taxes since the federal government does not provide funding for health, education or even municipal needs.

I argue immigration is not the issue-the size of how many you take in, the time period in which you give to assimilate them may be. Immigration is not the issue-the kind of immigrants you bring in, can be. How you define the KIND of immigrant that will be most likely to contribute and build not drag down and weaken your society is a tough one. Any attempt at defining criteria is going to be questioned  as unfair by potential immigrants and too lenient by pre-existing Canadians.

As well you can create all the criteria you want, but it means nothing if as I s the case now,  you have a Prime Minister like Trudeau, who  ignores it. Trudeau has completely ignored existing immigration laws add welcomed illegal migrants telling them to just illegally cross the border. His speeches are clearly coded to tell migrants to come while at the same time trying to sound like he's not saying this to non immigrant Canadians. Its not working. That double speak is not working. On the day he supposedly said he was sending someone who was sending someone Haitiens to Florida to explain Canadian immigration laws, he also showed up at a Tamil community photoop stating again everyone was welcome to come to Canada.

Trudeau is engaged in a deliberate premeditated policy of ethnic pandering. His handlers have said the next vote will be won getting the ethnic vote from cities and that is what Trudeau is counting on and cultivating. The problem with that kind of ethnic pandering is two things. It creates a passive aggressive reaction not openly expressed but is just beneath the surface. Its like pus that builds up under a wound. That build up if not relieved grows and the longer it grows, the more infectious it becomes spreading and when it then does erupt it causes far much more damage than if you had dealt with it quickly at the get go and the first signs of problems.

Its far too late after you create a tent city to then pretend you can keep taking people in. Its too late. The damage is done. The race conflicts now start. They start off with rallies of extreme left and right wingers at gatherings and then these demos grow in size and place and rate. All this time, the issue is not being addressed. You have Trudeau prancing about telling people all is fine and immigration can come unlimited.

Then the unthinkable happens. Someone shoots someone, a car goes in a crowd, that repeats a copy cat incident and so on.

If we are or were to take in immigrants of any kind, why did this government not anticipate or react to or have preparations in place when Trump said what he did?

How did Trudeau address his desire to increase refugees? He never increased funding to the Refugee and Hearings Board or refugee centres and he never increased funding so that non profit organizations and churches deal with the increased amounts.

Now he has a tent city which is a direct result of doing nothing. He had one phony photo op meeting last week and didn't even sit at the table of his alleged meeting instead prancing about for photo ops and then leaving never discussing the issue.

 

Edited August 28, 2017 by Rue

[Argus]

3 hours ago, marcus said:

You are correct. Shouldn't be trusted.

Them A-rabs are all against us white folks.

I always consider whether someone says something which has vested interests involved - say, like someone who works for a law firm which does a lot of business working for immigrants calling for more immigrants...

[Argus]

2 hours ago, jacee said:

You just have to follow the embedded link in my quote to find them, Argus. 

The Diversity Dividend

Whenever immigration supporters talk about how wonderful diversity is I think of the race riots in Britain, Sweden and France. Or the countries which broke up because of 'diversity', or the fact that if Canada had only one linguistic group it would be so much more united.

[capricorn]

58 minutes ago, Rue said:

Now he has a tent city which is a direct result of doing nothing. He had one phony photo op meeting last week and didn't even sit at the table of his alleged meeting instead prancing about for photo ops and then leaving never discussing the issue.

 

As one media article put it, if a sports stadium, and tent cities in Lacolle and Cornwall full of illegal asylum seekers are signs that the system is working and the situation is under control, what would failure of the system look like?

[marcus]

8 hours ago, Argus said:

I always consider whether someone says something which has vested interests involved - say, like someone who works for a law firm which does a lot of business working for immigrants calling for more immigrants...

Don't get salty because I corrected you on immigration rules.

What I have said about immigration has very little to do about my opinion and more about facts. 

This is a racist and bigoted comment: An Arab Canadian from the Trudeau foundation says we should have more immigration. Shocker.

You are pushing to normalize racism. It's not going to happen. Just like the loud, tiny minority of racists who came out to protest against immigration and Muslims, who are massively outnumbered by the anti-racists.

Which one of these three Canadians do you relate to most here:

 

 

Edited August 29, 2017 by marcus