Immigration of religious fanatics

[Guest]

Just now, Argus said:

This has exactly what to do with the immigration of religious people with cultural values which are opposed to that of Canada's secular society?

What, you are suddenly surprised by thread drift?

[carepov]

6 minutes ago, Argus said:

You clearly did not. The OP said not one word about terrorism, but your entire post was about terrorism in the world and why we needn't be worried about it.

Hmmm.... How did immigration lead to Islam lead to terrorism?

10 minutes ago, Argus said:

Your point is incorrect. Just because you don't think it's a problem doesn't mean others do.

Just because you think that its's a problem doesn't mean that it actually is.

Immigration poses no threat to our peaceful and tolerant society.

[Argus]

13 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

What, you are suddenly surprised by thread drift?

No, but I try to reign it in because the moderators generally won't.

Until one day they shut down the conversation completely because it's 'off topic'.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Argus

[Argus]

3 minutes ago, carepov said:

Immigration poses no threat to our peaceful and tolerant society.

Well, and that is the point of the discussion, is it not? And my point was that the importation of hundreds of thousands of people with a religious devotion to a cultural value system inimical to our own does indeed pose a danger to our peaceful and tolerant society since it leads to the rapid growth in a population within Canada which is hostile to secularism and tolerance.

[GostHacked]

21 minutes ago, Argus said:

Your point is incorrect. Just because you don't think it's a problem doesn't mean others do.

It's more of the perception of the magnitude of the problem.

[Argus]

9 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

It's more of the perception of the magnitude of the problem.

The magnitude of the problem is currently not that large. I am concerned with the future, and not the far future either. If this population continues to double every 7-10 years as it has for the last 40 or so it's going to have an influence which grows in tandem. Think of how many natives/aborigines there are in Canada. Well, the population of Muslims will surpass it within five years if it doesn't already. Then it will double within the following ten years.

As for numbers, I will quote you one of my own posts on this subject from earlier in the year.

It was only a few decades ago that the census didn't even mention Muslims by name. Their numbers were so small they were lumped in with "other faiths". In 1981 they were first counted, and the total Muslim population was 98,165. Ten years later it stood at 253,260. Ten years later it stood at 580,000. That was as of 2001, in case you're not keeping track. The number is expected to reach 1.4 million in eight years. The Muslim population has been essentially doubling every ten years. And yet it is the youngest of all denominations at an average age of 28.1 years. A group which doubles its population every 7-10 years is a group which is growing in power and influence, certainly in a democracy, where their votes count as much as anyone's.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Argus

[PIK]

13 minutes ago, carepov said:

Hmmm.... How did immigration lead to Islam lead to terrorism?

Just because you think that its's a problem doesn't mean that it actually is.

Immigration poses no threat to our peaceful and tolerant society.

We are doomed if this is the thinking of people. I am fine with immigration ,but now it is time to bring in more form Europe. No more from certain religious countries. Enough is enough.

[carepov]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

Well, and that is the point of the discussion, is it not? And my point was that the importation of hundreds of thousands of people with a religious devotion to a cultural value system inimical to our own does indeed pose a danger to our peaceful and tolerant society since it leads to the rapid growth in a population within Canada which is hostile to secularism and tolerance.

Peaceful is relatively easy to measure.  You are clearly wrong here:
-Canada is one of the most peaceful countries in the world (low crime rate)
-Canada crime rate has been steadily decreasing and is at ~ 40 year low
-Toronto has an extremely low crime rate and a very high percentage of immigrants.  Same goes for Monreal, Vancouver and other major centers.
- Asians (by far the largest group of immigrants) are under-represented in our prisons

You are wrong about tolerance too:
Your pew studies confirm that Canadian Muslims are very tolerant of Canadian values.  The only thing that they have trouble tolerating is our cold winter!

[carepov]

3 minutes ago, PIK said:

We are doomed if this is the thinking of people. I am fine with immigration ,but now it is time to bring in more form Europe. No more from certain religious countries. Enough is enough.

What will be the cause of our impending doom?

[Argus]

1 minute ago, carepov said:

Your pew studies confirm that Canadian Muslims are very tolerant of Canadian values.  The only thing that they have trouble tolerating is our cold winter!

No, they prove no such thing. They are more tolerant than Muslims in the middle east, but far less tolerant than Canadians generally.

[carepov]

5 minutes ago, Argus said:

The magnitude of the problem is currently not that large. I am concerned with the future, and not the far future either. If this population continues to double every 7-10 years as it has for the last 40 or so it's going to have an influence which grows in tandem. Think of how many natives/aborigines there are in Canada. Well, the population of Muslims will surpass it within five years if it doesn't already. Then it will double within the following ten years.

If you are correct, the percentage of Muslim Canadians will be about the same as the current percentage of Muslim Canadians living in Toronto.  So what?

[carepov]

2 minutes ago, Argus said:

No, they prove no such thing. They are more tolerant than Muslims in the middle east, but far less tolerant than Canadians generally.

I don't agree, but even if you are right, why should I care?

Edited December 28, 2016 by carepov

[Goddess]

15 minutes ago, carepov said:

I don't agree, but even if you are right, why should I care?

You shouldn't. 

That way when Islam's numbers and power in Canada grows to the point it has in Europe and their demands are made here as in Europe for Sharia law, you will have a long record of agreeing with them and you'll be safe. Just remember to pay the Jizya and keep your wife/daughters/girlfriends covered up and inside.

[carepov]

8 minutes ago, Goddess said:

You shouldn't. 

That way when Islam's numbers and power in Canada grows to the point it has in Europe and their demands are made here as in Europe for Sharia law, you will have a long record of agreeing with them and you'll be safe. Just remember to pay the Jizya and keep your wife/daughters/girlfriends covered up and inside.

Where in Europe is this happening?

[kactus]

28 minutes ago, Goddess said:

You shouldn't. 

That way when Islam's numbers and power in Canada grows to the point it has in Europe and their demands are made here as in Europe for Sharia law, you will have a long record of agreeing with them and you'll be safe. Just remember to pay the Jizya and keep your wife/daughters/girlfriends covered up and inside.

That is intriguing Goddess!!

Can you provide details about the country in Europe?

[dialamah]

18 minutes ago, Goddess said:

You shouldn't. 

That way when Islam's numbers and power in Canada grows to the point it has in Europe and their demands are made here as in Europe for Sharia law, you will have a long record of agreeing with them and you'll be safe. Just remember to pay the Jizya and keep your wife/daughters/girlfriends covered up and inside.

Except of course that way overstates what is actually going on.   Some European countries have allowed some form of Sharia family law for decades, within their existing civil law system and it has not resulted in everybody in the country under Sharia law.   

Also, several Muslim majority countries have a separate legal system for Non-Muslims.

In the UK, some Sharia counsels are being investigated for contravening the existing legal system, especially when it comes to women rights.

These realities should tell you three things:

1.  Muslims are not generally interested in imposing Sharia law on non-believers, only within their own countries or communities.

2.  A country's existing legal system does not fall apart, even when that country allows some accommodation for different religions.   

3.  The sky really and truly will not fall by allowing Muslims to live in Canada.

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

It is the culture spawned by and sustained by the religion.

It is Wahhabism feeding off deplorables.

[DogOnPorch]

8 minutes ago, dialamah said:

1.  Muslims are not generally interested in imposing Sharia law on non-believers, only within their own countries or communities.

 

Not according to the Quran. A better authority on Islam than you.

[Goddess]

33 minutes ago, carepov said:

Where in Europe is this happening?

Here is just one. Out of many. 

http://m.clarionproject.org/news/muslim-gangs-enforcing-sharia-london-streets

It's unknown how many Sharia law councils are in the UK alone, most reports say 80-100. The UK government has asked for an investigation as there are many reports of women being discriminated against or told they must remain in abusive relationships.

In Montreal, there is a Muslim housing development planned. Non-Muslims are told they can live there as long as they abide by muslim laws. They are alsodoing it to try to get around having mortgages.

[Goddess]

20 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Except of course that way overstates what is actually going on.   Some European countries have allowed some form of Sharia family law for decades, within their existing civil law system and it has not resulted in everybody in the country under Sharia law.   

Also, several Muslim majority countries have a separate legal system for Non-Muslims.

In the UK, some Sharia counsels are being investigated for contravening the existing legal system, especially when it comes to women rights.

These realities should tell you three things:

1.  Muslims are not generally interested in imposing Sharia law on non-believers, only within their own countries or communities.

2.  A country's existing legal system does not fall apart, even when that country allows some accommodation for different religions.   

3.  The sky really and truly will not fall by allowing Muslims to live in Canada.

1. Except that when they have the numbers and power to claim a community as their own, that's exactly what they do. (See the link in my above post)

2. A country's legal system will not fall apart as long as we keep Sharia law out of it. As evidenced by the UK finally getting their s$$t together and finding out what's going on in these Sharia courts.

3. I don't believe anyone here said No Muslims in Canada. Some of us would just like some extra precautions on letting ones in from violent areas, as their values clash drastically with our's.

[kactus]

11 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Here is just one. Out of many. 

http://m.clarionproject.org/news/muslim-gangs-enforcing-sharia-london-streets

It's unknown how many Sharia law councils are in the UK alone, most reports say 80-100. The UK government has asked for an investigation as there are many reports of women being discriminated against or told they must remain in abusive relationships.

In Montreal, there is a Muslim housing development planned. Non-Muslims are told they can live there as long as they abide by muslim laws. They are alsodoing it to try to get around having mortgages.

Thanks! Yes, it is sad but doubt if it is widely practiced among muslim community...

[dialamah]

14 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Here is just one. Out of many. 

http://m.clarionproject.org/news/muslim-gangs-enforcing-sharia-london-streets

It's unknown how many Sharia law councils are in the UK alone, most reports say 80-100. The UK government has asked for an investigation as there are many reports of women being discriminated against or told they must remain in abusive relationships.

In Montreal, there is a Muslim housing development planned. Non-Muslims are told they can live there as long as they abide by muslim laws. They are alsodoing it to try to get around having mortgages.

Clarion Project.  I get their newsletter too, because they claimed to be unbiased, presenting both sides, but its clearly not.  I was duped, oh well.

Yes, I've read that Muslim patrol story numerous times.  Three guys over a week or two who were rather quickly shut down by police, and also denounced by local Muslims.  Notice Clarion doesn't mention those additional facts?

A housing project for Muslims; why is that a problem?   We already have religious groups who set up their own communities, usually outside of urban areas.  They also have rules you'd have to follow if you wanted to live there.   But I don't see anyone getting all concerned about those groups; is that because they're not Muslim and we're used to them?  

But in all of these cases, the rules of the community do not trump the rules of the land.   This means that if it's illegal in Canada to assault someone, its illegal even in an Amish, Mormon or Muslim community.

 Did you know that charging interest is against the tenets of Islam, and that borrowing money is discouraged for Muslims?   This is one aspect of Sharia law that I would think fiscal conservatives would embrace!  

Last I read, there were 84 Muslim councils that could be investigated.   I think its great that the people who saw a problem were able to do something about it, something that would be impossible in many countries.  

This looks to me like strength; a country flexible enough to allow some differences and strong enough to ensure abuses are not tolerated.

I do not understand the thinking that we are such a weak country that we'll just fall over at the whim of some religious people.   We haven't done so for Christians and there's no reason to think we will for Muslims either.

[drummindiver]

On ‎12‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 3:50 PM, dialamah said:

Funny, this is what I thought about American men compared to Canadian men when I was single in my 20s.

 

So you were a sexual bigot?

[Argus]

35 minutes ago, kactus said:

Thanks! Yes, it is sad but doubt if it is widely practiced among muslim community...

Why? Do you think they don't believe in their own religion? Do you actually think they wear those uncomfortable robes around every day of their life yet ignore basic laws of Islam?

 

[GostHacked]

52 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Not according to the Quran. A better authority on Islam than you.

The bible has some nasty things to.  But it's the followers and not the book that is the problem.  That is how you need to phrase this.