police shootings in US and Obama's comments

[sharkman]

We've reached a tipping point where the facts are trumped by the heavily edited video clips. The facts don't matter anymore to enough of the people on the streets and we will see more and more needless deaths as everyone resists the police since they are all "racist pigs". I predicted last summer that some type of great unrest was coming and I see no reason to change my mind.

The presidents idiotic comments of yesterday only increase the risks.

[cybercoma]

Why are police having a disproportionate amount of violent interactions with non whites? Gee, I can't figure it out! It must be racism!

Nonwhites commit 92 percent of all violent crime in New York City, and are responsible for 98 percent of all shootings, 91 percent of all firearm arrests, 88 percent of all drug arrests, 84 percent of all stolen property arrests, and 88 percent of all misdemeanor sexual offenses, the citys police department has reported.[/size]

http://newobserveronline.com/new-york-nonwhites-commit-92-of-violent-crime/[/size]

Time and time again the studies have been posted to you in response to this. Black people are more heavily policed than whites so they're more likely to be arrested than a white person who commits a crime. After the arrest they're also more likely to be prosecuted and when prosecuted they're more likely to be incarcerated. This is ceteris paribus. The system is stacked against black people. So you can't come in here and say "black people are arrested more" because that's part of the institutional racism at work. They're arrested more because they're policed more and the system is not even remotely as lenient with black men as they are with whites and especially women. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kim-farbota/black-crime-rates-your-st_b_8078586.html Edited July 8, 2016 by cybercoma

[Rue]

It's hard to take you seriously when you are dismissing the issue of systemic racism against black people, rue.

Because in other threads, you accuse everyone inappropriately of racism against Jews.

Your creds are very weak here.

So for example if you were a police officer making a a stop, and someone reached into their pocket and you thought he had a gun do you shoot because of that reason, or because that civilian is black?

Context matters:

If you just asked him for his ID, maybe you should just let him get it out of his pocket.

Duh.

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Stop misrepresenting Jacee. I never stated there was no systematic racism or racism. Jacee you countless times deliberately

misrepresent what I state and I have come to expect that from you which is why I dismiss your attempts to drag everything back to rationalizing your support for anti semites on this board. Where's my fly spray.

[Rue]

you can write a brazillion words but somehow can't manage to actually quote/link to what you claim U.S. President Barack Obama stated. Imagine that! Until you put forward a quote that aligns with your screed, I call BS. Here... let me quote you something he actually stated... something that busts your BS narrative, big time!

.

Read back the words you quoted, namely:

"But regardless of the outcome of such investigations, what’s clear is that these fatal shootings are not isolated incidents. They are symptomatic of the broader challenges within our criminal justice system, the racial disparities that appear across the system year after year, and the resulting lack of trust that exists between law enforcement and too many of the communities they serve."

If the shootings are not isolated, the necessary inference is they are connected because all police are racists. There is no clear proof they are connected and that all police are racist. There is proof that in many of these incidents police made mistakes not caused by skin colour but bad training and a seige mentality they develop towards all citizens not just blacks.

There are other incidents where it appears there are out and out race killings like the officer who shot the black man in the back then planted a gun.

Yes society is full of people and yes all people are racist and yes police can be.That is not the issue and you did not read what I said neither did Jacee-you two can't grasp the concept of nuance in public communications or meta communications and the unintended messages that come out with bad timing and choice of words.

There is zero proof at this point, zero, absolutely none that the shooting in the suburbs of St. Paul was connected to the shooting in Baton Rouge.

Both have black males killed. That's a fact and it leads to the automatic assumption that since both were black shootings involving white cops its racism. You now with so many others have become instant experts on policing based on cell phones.

Jacee as usual misrepresented what I said. I did not say there was no racism. What I did say and repeat is, saying it and proving it, knowing when to say it and how to say it in a way that does not trigger and incite violent reactions is the issue and that is why I criticized Obama. I concede your point some of what he said appears peace keeping but the above comment I argue backs up exactly my argument. The words, ."but regardless of the outcome of such investigations..." refers to previous investigations of police abuse and dismisses those that showed the actions in question were NOT racist but caused by poor police training or honest accident. He wrote them off deliberately to go on to say racism with police is not isolated (not a case by case matter) but something that gives this President and Americans, especially blacks, the write to assume all police are racist.

You do not say that as a leader. Its irresponsible. Take that paragraph out and I would not have criticized him.

.

Likewise this comment you quoted from him:

“That’s why, two years ago, I set up a Task Force on 21st Century Policing that convened police officers, community leaders, and activists. Together, they came up with detailed recommendations on how to improve community policing. So even as officials continue to look into this week’s tragic shootings, we also need communities to address the underlying fissures that lead to these incidents, and to implement those ideas that can make a difference. That’s how we’ll keep our communities,"

Why don't you look up the above and the aftermath of it. Thank you though. You provided the words I claim show he was protecting his legacy and using this incident to tout the above initiative of his and to protect his legacy. You don't turn the incident political as he did. That was no different that Trump saying he was right about Muslims after the Orlando massacre. Its the same crass misuse of political rhetoric to try gain himself personal credibility at the expense of a tragedy.

No link? You just provided it.

That task force by the way came up with useless, inane, meaningless platitudes. It was a failure precisely because it was full of meaningless leftist trendy words like systemic and symptomatic.

.

It is absolutely no surprise to me a day after he made his speech people are engaging in sniper attacks at police. What the hell did you think would happen when the President is saying the incidents were not isolated. It fanned the anger. It didn't defuse it, it incited it.

There is a way to acknowledge pain without turning it to anger a point you can't fathom or Jacee.

In crisis management leaders are trained to keep their comments simple, short, precise. Not Obama. He can't resist patronizing babble.

Its why people turned off listening to him. Every comment is he knows better and if only people were to listen to him these things would

not happen.

He's a narcissist no different than Trump. He's a jackass. In . basic crisis management the less you say the better because in such tragedies, people only hear what they want to hear.

"But regardless of the outcome of these investigations" is taken by angry people to mean "who cares about any investigations that showed there was no racism behind the action".

Bottom line is-you can not say to me neither can Jacee if an issue happens because someone is black, period. You don't know. You assume. You assume since the person is black, it must be racism. Well it may be. Then again the misconduct could be coming about not because of skin colour but fear of guns.

Personally I really have a hard time with the shooting in Louisiana. That looked like a cold blooded inexcusable killing. The Minnesota one. Its tragic. What we have is a man who said he had a concealed weapon and permit while a police officer points a gun at him. The tape shows he then moves to get something out of his pocket and the cop as he does that shooting him. Is that racism or a cop panicking because he thinks there is a gun coming out. Is it only because he was black he was shot or because of these damn laws that permit concealed weapons?

None of you trendy leftists know. None of you. You react with anger.

You trendy leftists have no idea what it is like to be a cop. How do you know how you would react if you think a guy is reaching for a gun to shoot you? Its easy for you to sit back, and think you are an expert from watching a portion of what happened. Too easy.

Sorry unlike you, I want proof. I don't just assume the guy was killed because he was black. Now if you want to argue he was and the headlight stop was deliberate because he was black prove it don't assume it. This is the problem with you, Obama and too many people, you assume.

When you assume you do a disservice to blacks because you jump to conclusions that provide no solutions. If your conclusion is its racism explain why and how it transmutes.

Look at Jacee's response. She defends defining Jews as inferiors to Muslims in having the right to a country and then says because I dispute that double standard and deny racism against blacks I have no creibiity. Uh no. She has no credibility for holding Jews to a double standard, then deliberatelyt misrepresenting my argument and falsely accusing me of saying there is no racism in policing.

I stated and I repeat again, the stereotypes she uses to define Jews as not having a right to a state is the same one she and trendy leftists use to dismiss all police as racist and the words above I quoted from Obama I believe taint all police and that is not fair to good police officers.

Stop and think how many good police now have been tainted by Obama as involved in wide spread racism. According to him these are not incidents specific to bad cops (isolated). That necessarily paints all cops as bad. I don't buy into negative stereotypes of cops anymore than I do of blacks or Jews.

You made valid debate and I concede some of his words were attempts to calm people down but I now have clarified why I believe they were undone by other words..

[Rue]

There is an inherent elevated risk and conflict between law enforcement and gun rights.

Thank you. That is the point. Its a point we forget in these damn shootings. God damn it if someone has a gun black or white, if I am a cop I am in

a hypervigilante state stopping people fearing they have a gun.

Is that simply because they are black or because they have a gun?

Sometimes the racism is blatant such as when the police officer shot the black man in the back then planted a gun on him.

I don't doubt, no one does certain white police are racist. Others black or white, adapt a siege mentality of us against them which treats everyone in a rough manner because of that fear of guns and other things that distance police from people.

I believe beat cops are far more vital to a community than police in cars. Cars isolate police in a box and creates a huge distance as they peer out at people. They don't interact. The car isolates. Police on horses, bicycles, on foot, do not give off the same street vibe.

Now is that racism or some other phenomena.

Its tough because sometimes its racism, sometimes its not, its police alienation from day to day people of all colours, sometimes its a mix of both.

Its damn complicated. Its easy to look at a damn cell phone and think you know. People who knee jerk react to tragedy want simple black and white answers.

In the US in the summer there are more interactions between police and blacks as well as whites and everyone else as more people are outside and for longer hours particularly when they are poor and its hot and their apartments have no air conditioning.

So is that racism, or poverty related or both? Are poor unemployed people more likely to be on the street? Yes we know that's true. So if poor black people outnumber poor white people but poor white people get the same bad treatment is it racism or poverty or both?

[bush_cheney2004]

...So is that racism, or poverty related or both? Are poor unemployed people more likely to be on the street? Yes we know that's true. So if poor black people outnumber poor white people but poor white people get the same bad treatment is it racism or poverty or both?

Total shootings are actually down per capita...what we have more of are smart phones and social media. A lot of these people never lived through the 1960's.

[jacee]

Stop misrepresenting Jacee. I never stated there was no systematic racism or racism.

Rue said:

"First off I always found the word "systemic" to be one of the most over-used and meaningless of words. No one knows what it means. Its a generalize stereotype when used. The way Obama uses it, its a sweeping stereotype that all police are racist.

Its used to express an unproven, subjective allegation that asks you to assume something wide-spread and in this case racism."

That's pretty dismissive of systemic racism in police forces, which clearly exists in the police 'code of silence' and coverup of racist acts by members.

... I dismiss your attempts to drag everything back to rationalizing your support for anti semites on this board.

Where's my fly spray.

Wow. That's a stretch!

It's all about rue, and everyone is out to get you.

Even those damn antisemite flies!

.

Edited July 8, 2016 by jacee

[Argus]

Rue said:

"First off I always found the word "systemic" to be one of the most over-used and meaningless of words. No one knows what it means. Its a generalize stereotype when used. The way Obama uses it, its a sweeping stereotype that all police are racist.

Its used to express an unproven, subjective allegation that asks you to assume something wide-spread and in this case racism."

That's pretty dismissive of systemic racism in police forces, which clearly exists in the police 'code of silence' and coverup of racist acts by members.

I haven't seen any of these shootings yet which can be linked to the police officer being a 'racist', as opposed to the police officer being in a violent confrontation with a criminal OR a police officer getting trigger happy out of fear, overreacting when a Black person makes a sudden move, for example. But these things happen with white people too. We just seldom hear about them because they don't fit the ongoing media theme of police gunning down Black men.

[Derek 2.0]

This is an off topic red herring. "Black on black crime" does not absolve the police of their responsibility when they're disproportionately murdering unarmed nlack people. Give your head a shake if you think there's any kind of equivalency between a cop murdering someone during a traffic stop and gang violence in places like Chicago.

You've, along with many others, suggested this is racially motivated......in a community where blacks are committing the majority of crimes, I'd fully expect a police officer to be more guarded when dealing with a young black man then an elderly Chinese women.

[Derek 2.0]

Screw your dog whistle BS. "Let's gather all the facts," as if you give a damn about the facts of police brutality towards black people. You're just waiting for information that you can use to spin this to blame the victims. And it's pretty f'ing rich too coming from the resident NRA fanboy. Why aren't you and your peers defending the right to carry and the fact that one of these men had ZERO criminal record and was legally carrying a firearm. Or does your gun rights crusade only apply to white people?

I suggest you calm your tits before you accuse me of being a bigot

As I said, once all the facts are known, if the (Asian) police officer is found guilty of wrongdoing I'm sure he'll be charged.......if it turns into another Ferguson, then he won't be......a very simple concept devoid of your childish outburst.

[cybercoma]

What's childish is this ludicrous "we need all the facts" BS when it's very clear to anyone with two brain cells to rub together how horrible the situation is. Countless people have spoken out but you want to wait. It speaks volumes about your character that you can't denounce this.

Edited July 9, 2016 by cybercoma

[bush_cheney2004]

I suggest you calm your tits before you accuse me of being a bigot

Facts don't matter: "HANDS UP...DON'T SHOOT !! "

[Derek 2.0]

The NRA's response with regards to the Minnesota shooting:

The reports from #Minnesota are troubling and must be thoroughly investigated. #2A #NRA

The entire message:

Edited July 9, 2016 by Derek 2.0

[Derek 2.0]

What's childish is this ludicrous "we need all the facts" BS when it's very clear to anyone with two brain cells to rub together how horrible the situation is. Countless people have spoken out but you want to wait. It speaks volumes about your character that you can't denounce this.

Clearly the only one in this conversation hung up with a prejudice is you......and the "countless people", that know as much about this case, as you or I.

I know what I don't know, what's your problem (and the "countless people") ?

[Wilber]

"Good guys with guns" are getting shot and they don't know how to deal with it. So, no comment.

[kimmy]

Guys, just a cautionary note... this is getting a little heated, and I don't want people to give Chuck an excuse to swing the suspension stick around again. I have a hunch he's itching to use it. Be cool, everybody.

-k

[-1=e^ipi]

After the arrest they're also more likely to be prosecuted and when prosecuted they're more likely to be incarcerated.

The male-female sentencing gap is 6 times larger than the black-white sentencing gap. Yet we don't see a #malelivesmatter movement or the SJWs discuss this gap and how it relates to the shootings of black men. Why? Because it doesn't agree with the SJW oppression hierarchy narrative.

[jacee]

I haven't seen any of these shootings yet which can be linked to the police officer being a 'racist', as opposed to the police officer being in a violent confrontation with a criminal OR a police officer getting trigger happy out of fear, overreacting when a Black person makes a sudden move, for example. But these things happen with white people too. We just seldom hear about them because they don't fit the ongoing media theme of police gunning down Black men.

If police were killing white people for broken taillights ... we'd be hearing about it.

If police were killing white people who made 'a sudden move' to get their ID as the cop requested ...

We'd be hearing about it.

"Overreacting" because people are "Black" is the problem.

That is systemic racism.

And sometimes it ends in race-related murder.

.

[Guest]

If police were killing white people for broken taillights ... we'd be hearing about it.

If police were killing white people who made 'a sudden move' to get their ID as the cop requested ...

We'd be hearing about it.

"Overreacting" because people are "Black" is the problem.

That is systemic racism.

And sometimes it ends in race-related murder.

.

We are hearing about it.

[jacee]

We are hearing about it.

?? See Argus' post.

.

[jacee]

The male-female sentencing gap is 6 times larger than the black-white sentencing gap. Yet we don't see a #malelivesmatter movement or the SJWs discuss this gap and how it relates to the shootings of black men. Why? Because it doesn't agree with the SJW oppression hierarchy narrative.

Why?

Because men haven't created a movement about that.

Nobody else is going to do it for them.

Doesn't mean it isn't needed, but they haven't bothered doing it.

Why?

[Guest]

?? See Argus' post.

.

I apologize. I misunderstood your post.

[jacee]

I apologize. I misunderstood your post.

?

[waldo]

The NRA's response with regards to the Minnesota shooting:

The entire message:

considering the number of times the NRA has "shot itself" with premature comments... looks like it's learned at least one thing! By the by, I was particularly taken with your comment that mentioned ISIS as a possible contributor - but had you throw in your covering caveat, "who knows". When you mention it with that type of caveat, does the caveat really mean anything?

.

[Hal 9000]

I don't know much about the dude in the car, but the guy in the red shirt (Sterling) deserved what he got.