Another Mass Shooting

[DogOnPorch]

I can sense a thread lock coming soon. It's hard to talk about a Muslim dude killing 49 people without talking about the problems with Islam.

I guess we could talk Gun Control, but as a Canadian site, we just sound like self righteous finger waggers when we judge another country because of their constitution.

Let's talk about the Mafia...but not mention Sicily.

[GostHacked]

I can sense another thread lock coming soon. It's hard to talk about a Muslim dude killing 49 people without talking about the problems with Islam.

I guess we could talk Gun Control, but as a Canadian site, we just sound like self righteous finger waggers when we judge another country because of their constitution.

The thread will be locked because of the same people that contributed to the lock before. And as we saw those posts by the certain member were removed. So we can expect those new posts to be removed or the thread will get locked.

Kimmy gave the warning out, and I don't want to hear anyone complaining when she slaps some members into line.

[waldo]

I can sense another thread lock coming soon. It's hard to talk about a Muslim dude killing 49 people without talking about the problems with Islam.

you simply choose to ignore the "total package"... the mixed bag of presumptive motivations/influences driving the guy. It doesn't matter that authorities are most hesitant to, in the early days, speak to your same definitive assessment that singularly focuses on one thing, and one thing only.

.

[GostHacked]

I can see part of the problem with people ONLY wanting to discuss the problems with Islam instead of treating this as simply another mass murder by a nutjob who was influence by other idiots. Idiots influencing idiots.

The failure of the FBI to stop this should be a question from those who want to simply bash Islam.

The rhetoric by some is simply inflammatory trolling, nothing more.

[Boges]

The rhetoric by some is simply inflammatory trolling, nothing more.

Trolling? Really?

I guess you can just assume that the 911 call beforehand was a diversionary tactic to pin this on Fundamentalist Islam. Of course you have no evidence of that do you?

Or the fact that the dad was a supporter of the Taliban.

Maybe he was just a closeted homosexuals that resented the lifestyle and lashed out, but to completely discount the Muslim factor is to bury your head in the sand.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Boges

[DogOnPorch]

I can see part of the problem with people ONLY wanting to discuss the problems with Islam instead of treating this as simply another mass murder by a nutjob who was influence by other idiots. Idiots influencing idiots.

The failure of the FBI to stop this should be a question from those who want to simply bash Islam.

The rhetoric by some is simply inflammatory trolling, nothing more.

Re the FBI: From CAIR...

http://www.cair.com/

Edited June 16, 2016 by DogOnPorch

[GostHacked]

Trolling? Really?

I guess you can't just assume that the 911 call beforehand was a diversionary tactic to pin this on the fundamentalist community. Of course you have no evidence of that do you?

Or the fact that the dad was a supporter of the Taliban.

Maybe he was just a closeted homosexuals that resented the lifestyle and lashed out, but to completely discount the Muslim factor is to bury your head in the sand.

Yes trolling. Some just want to bash Islam any chance they get. It's not JUST about Islam, it is about gun violence and the access to high powered weapons and the second amendment rights. There are many factors here, but again some simply want to bash Islam .. so yes that is blatant trolling, nothing more.

You'll get more examples of that in this thread from certain members, and you wont have to wait long.

Edited June 16, 2016 by GostHacked

[Boges]

The gun control debate is a fun one. We can sit here on our perch judging the US for their Gun Culture. But that's trolling too, because nothing we say is going to make a lick of difference. Americans like their guns and shootings like this are just collateral damage to their lifestyle.

[GostHacked]

The gun control debate is a fun one. We can sit here on our perch judging the US for their Gun Culture. But that's trolling too, because nothing we say is going to make a lick of difference. Americans like their guns and shootings like this are just collateral damage to their lifestyle.

And complaining about Islam solely, is not going to help unless someone has solutions to the perceived problem. otherwise, as you say, wont make a lick of difference. We'll go round and round till the thread gets locked, again.

[Boges]

And complaining about Islam solely, is not going to help unless someone has solutions to the perceived problem. otherwise, as you say, wont make a lick of difference. We'll go round and round till the thread gets locked, again.

No it won't. But at least I'll admit there's a gun issue in the US. I just concede it's an unfixable problem, or at least an extraordinarily difficult problem to fix.

I kind of get my ire up when people compare the type of retrograde treatment of women and homosexuals in "SEGMENTS!!!!" of the Islamic world and compare it to other religions, it's not like other religions. It's currently a very unique problem the world faces.

Religion is the problem! Not really, lots of people in the world are religious and very peaceful loving people. It's this specific subsect of this specific religion that's the problem.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Boges

[DogOnPorch]

Religion is the problem! Not really, lots of people in the world are religious and very peaceful loving people. It's this specific subsect of this specific religion that's the problem.

Oh, Islam is the problem, alright...one would have to be in denial at this point.

Edited June 16, 2016 by DogOnPorch

[GostHacked]

It's a unique problem because foreign intervention into these places have been going on for decades. NATO and some allies have had foreign policies that directly contributed to the rise of terrorism around the world. A war that has displaced and/or killed millions of people.

How is Iraq since "Mission Accomplished?" Bombings there weekly killing scores of people. But it seems as long as Muslims killing Muslims in a foreign land, the care factor hits the floor even though the global war on terror has only generated more terror. Irony or on purpose?

How is Syria since NATO started arming the rebels (part Al-Queda, part ISIS)

How is Libya after the removal of the 'brutal' dictator Qaddafi?

Things like this attack will be plastered all over western media, while the more brutal killings taking place elsewhere without a peep. Same with the Paris attacks. Lots of media coverage there, but again in Iraq and other places where this is almost a daily occurrence, the care level hits an all time low.

Meanwhile the west seems to favor some terrorists over others. (Saudi Arabia as an example) and has no issue selling them military hardware that will most likely be used against the West in some fashion. We are creating our own perpetual problem.

Action, reaction.

Edited June 16, 2016 by GostHacked

[Boges]

Oh, Islam is the problem, alright...one would have to be in denial at this point.

No not all Islam is the problem. Perhaps the Muslims who aren't the problem aren't following their Holy text to the letter. But they still identify as such.

A lot of the treatment of women from "Muslims" aren't called for in the Quaran. They're cultural bastardizations. Sort of like how the Catholic Church made shit up after the fact.

[waldo]

Re the FBI: From CAIR...

http://www.cair.com/

perfect! Not that there was any doubt, this clearly frames you... and your agenda:

CAIR Pulls 'Don't Talk To FBI' Poster

The Council on American-Islamic Relations asked its California chapter to take down the image of a poster -- one that says, "Build a wall of resistance. Don't talk to the FBI" -- it used to promote a discussion about the FBI's tactics in recent terrorism investigations.

As soon as the national organization found out about the image last week -- about the same time Fox News and others began writing about it -- officials asked the chapter to pull it down, a CAIR spokesman tells TPM.

"It is not consistent with CAIR's policy of constitutionally informed cooperation with law enforcement," government affairs director Corey Saylor said.

"We're concerned that what would normally be a minor error will be overblown by people with a political agenda," he explained, saying the group used "extreme caution to make sure we don't send the wrong message to our community."

.

[cybercoma]

I simply don't think a defense of Christianity is needed or relevant when criticizing the problems we see today with some of the beliefs prevalent among Muslims. Christianity has had plenty of its own problems historically and can be criticized severely in many ways. Fortunately, it has for the most part had its murderous tendencies subdued. We must now work on taming the next intolerant aggressive religion as we did the last.

Christians murder just as often as Muslims. We just don't hang their religion out like a flag when they do because it doesn't Otherize them.

[DogOnPorch]

No not all Islam is the problem. Perhaps the Muslims who aren't the problem aren't following their Holy text to the letter. But they still identify as such.

A lot of the treatment of women from "Muslims" aren't called for in the Quaran. They're cultural bastardizations. Sort of like how the Catholic Church made shit up after the fact.

Islam is the ideology. Muslims are the members. Islam is the problem...

[Boges]

perfect! Not that there was any doubt, this clearly frames you... and your agenda:

CAIR Pulls 'Don't Talk To FBI' Poster

.

Swoot Damage control.

[Guest]

Christians murder just as often as Muslims. We just don't hang their religion out like a flag when they do because it doesn't Otherize them.

Do they murder because of their religion just as often as Muslims, or is it just numbers alone?

[GostHacked]

No not all Islam is the problem. Perhaps the Muslims who aren't the problem aren't following their Holy text to the letter. But they still identify as such.

A lot of the treatment of women from "Muslims" aren't called for in the Quaran. They're cultural bastardizations. Sort of like how the Catholic Church made shit up after the fact.

All good points in my view

[Guest]

No not all Islam is the problem. Perhaps the Muslims who aren't the problem aren't following their Holy text to the letter. But they still identify as such.

A lot of the treatment of women from "Muslims" aren't called for in the Quaran. They're cultural bastardizations. Sort of like how the Catholic Church made shit up after the fact.

The Islamic Council in Pakistan just came out and said honour killings are unislamic. Good for them.

Not so much on the wife beating though.

Edited June 16, 2016 by bcsapper

[cybercoma]

Do they murder because of their religion just as often as Muslims, or is it just numbers alone?

Well, Bush called the war in the middle east a holy war. It's all in what you choose to define as being "because of religion" or not. Any time a Muslim kills someone, somebody is going to say it's because of his religion. Anders Breivik murders someone and we don't say it's because of his religion, yet ideology is ideology. Middle Eastern radicals are not murdering because of religion. They're murdering because of political ideologies and using religion as a recruitment and retention tool. The facts, again, that are being ignored is that there are many Muslims being butchered by these terrorists and there are many Muslims both allies and in the US military fighting against the terrorists and radicals. It's blunt, unsophisticated thinking that chalks it up to religion and insults the families of the dead who observe that religion and it insults those who observe that religion and are fighting against these animals.

[Hal 9000]

Tactics of war are constantly changing, and for people to think that these combatants need a uniform or specific orders from leaders is so passe'. Terrorism is the new guerrilla warfare.

BTW - Where were all those Bernie supporters who like to protest "hate speech" when that Iman was preaching the murder of homosexuals?

[cybercoma]

A lot of the treatment of women from "Muslims" aren't called for in the Quaran. They're cultural bastardizations. Sort of like how the Catholic Church made shit up after the fact.

This is where the conversation needs to be. We need to be talking about the cultures that promote things like "honour" killing, FGM, suicide bombing, etc. Honour killing is practices by both Sikhs and Muslims, but also is condemned by Sikhs and Muslims because it's not part of the religion. These are cultural practices in very specific areas of the world and are not acceptable across the board.

And are we criticizing Islam for condemning homosexuality? We should, sure. But I find it pretty hypocritical coming from members of this forum who all of a sudden seem to care about gay rights when they themselves have made some of the most disgusting homophobic comments on this site. Forgive me if I think their concern is a thin veil for them to be able to express their bigotry against Islam without any regard for the complexity of the problems.

[cybercoma]

BTW - Where were all those Bernie supporters who like to protest "hate speech" when that Iman was preaching the murder of homosexuals?

What a silly thing to say. Where were YOU? How come you weren't protesting him? That should give you your answer.

[waldo]

Swoot Damage control.

such a lame response, is yours! Providing proper perspective on yet another DOPloy is... just that. Your comment says more about you and your apparent difficulty in having it pointed out that it was but a single chapter of the organization that used that poster (one created decades ago) in relation to the conference described. As the quote stated, once the umbrella head organization became aware of it... it was 'pulled', with an accompanying statement that clearly disavows the poster usage and speaks to a policy of constitutionally informed cooperation with law enforcement. Now you might actually have something if it could be shown by the FBI/authorities that the organization hasn't cooperated with law enforcement.

.