Zionism's influence over Western politics

[Rue]

Actually, the proof has been given repeatedly. You just choose to not deal with it. The amount of money by pro-Zionist lobby groups, the pro-Zionist bills, written by Zionist lobby groups are all proof and an inconvenient truth.

The Israeli First lobby groups are hurting America and more and more Americans are waking up to it. It's a movement that no amount of denial will stop.

I just hope that logic and reason will prevail and people don't mix the ugliness of Zionism with Judaism. Just as I hope that actions of ISIS, Wahabism and Salafism will not confuse people with what Islam is and what Muslims are about.

You have provided no proof Marcus. You have repeatedly been asked how you determined that Zionists influence differently than Saudi ir Ianian lobbies and to date all you can answer with is and I quote:

"The money and the policies.."

or

"The amount of money by pro-Zionist lobby groups, the pro-Zionist bills, written by Zionist lobby groups are all proof and an inconvenient truth."

The above does not prove influence of any degree. You claim it does with zero proof. You ask people to assume the "amount" of money or the contents of the policies, indicate different influence than Saudi or Iranian influence.

Why?

Are you saying the Iranians and Saudis and every other lobby group on capital hill don' write policies or use money?

Go on finish what you started. Show the statistics that AIPAC spends more money on lobbying than Saudi Arabia or Iran or Egypt or China or South Korea or Taiwan. Go on-provide the proof.

As well provide the proof that when a Zionist writes a policy as you say, presto it automatically is more influential than if an anti Zionist Iran loby writes one.

Go on explain....lol...

The fact is you can't and every time you respond to me you show you can't but what you can do is slur Zionists and ask people to infer and assume based on unproven allegations and stereotypes. Your words pure and simple are designed to slur all Jews, Zionists, Israelis, Americans, The West and anyone who does not agree with your version of radical Islamic terrorist politics.

Your words are exposed, your agenda stale, and you engage in words that are nothing but bigotry-anti-semitic drivel.

[Rue]

You mean you wouldn't be as aware of the international cabals of Jews who are ruling the world?

Donald Trump's daughter converted to Judaism after marrying a Jew and giving birth to them and yegads Chelsea Clinton married you ready for this, investment banker and oh my gawd conservative Jew Marc Mazinsky and just gave birth to a Joo.

I mean the painful truth is there Argus. Trust me though Justin and Sophie Trudeau are not Jews jut because they recently were in a canoe for a photo op and didn' tip.

[marcus]

You have provided no proof Marcus.

Seriously? Why do you push so hard for everyone to live in this world of denial of something that is so blatantly obvious?

You want everyone to be blind to the incredible, bipartisan pandering by congress? What about when Netanyahu went to the U.S. to give a speech, (without the approval of the black guy) where he received 29 standing ovations by congress like a bunch of silly school girls? There was Rand Paul who was criticized for not standing and clapping enough. Ooh. There goes his future in US politics. How about the billions of dollars given to Israel each year - to a country which is quite wealthy? How about the continuous shutting down of UN resolutions that may stop Israel's human rights violations against the Palestinians? How about the war in Iraq which was pushed by the Neo-cons/Zionists? How about the moves by different levels of government against the BDS movement?

It's true that Obama has overstepped his boundary with his policy towards Iran, which is not quite hawkish enough. This is why so many Zionists, such as yourself, scream and cry and accuse Obama of being "a supporter of Muslim Brotherhood" *eye-roll*. Because Muslim Brotherhood and the Iranian government are the same? Wait what? The support for Israel has never been 100% among US politicians, but compared to any other subjects or any policies, Israel receives what it asks for.

But we all know if any politician decides to speak out against the Zionist agenda, that grips the foreign policy in the United States, they are heavily attacked and its pretty much the end of their political career. Why does every politician lines up to try to speak at AIPAC (the leading Israeli lobby - but only one of MANY pro-Zionist lobby groups)? Because they know they need the blessing of the god father of the leading Washington gangster in order to have a chance in US politics.

Money talks baby! Evidence of this money has been repeated over and over again in this thread. But this is not enough for you. You're wanting more evidence. Millions of dollars by Pro-Zionist supporters are poured into elections at different levels. But this is not evidence to you. You really want people to buy the fantasy that Iran has more influence and gives more money? Seriously?

Your cries are hallow and weak. The evidence is in front of us. The Zionist lobby has the biggest influence over US foreign policy.

Anyone who is interested in a good explanation of the Zionist lobby's influence, I recommend this quick read or read the book The Israeli Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy.

Edited June 22, 2016 by marcus

[bush_cheney2004]

AIPAC is not an Israeli lobby...it is American > American Israel Public Affairs Committee

[marcus]

AIPAC is not an Israeli lobby...it is American > American Israel Public Affairs Committee

Okay buddy.

[Moonlight Graham]

The above two techniques make AIPAC influential. My point is no more influential than so many other groups.

My point is the Iran lobby is very influential and the same can be said of the Saudi one which controls the oil lobby which is a huge power in Washington.

Well i would agree that there's other lobby groups that are just as (if not more) powerful AIPAC or the right-wing pro-Israel lobby in general. i don't think any "Iranian lobby", if such a thing even exists, is very powerful at all.

That doesn't mean Jews, especially hawkish conservative pro-Israel Jews, haven't had a powerful influence on US politics and their foreign policy. Of course they have. Prominent Jewish-American politicians, bureaucrats, and academics etc. helped lead the modern neoconservative movement and literally helped write its foreign policy, implemented under G.W. Bush. Many served in Reagan & Bush Sr. admins. This policy of unilateralism & pre-emptive military intervention etc. was formulated in The Wolfowitz Doctrine in the early 90's, then essentially renamed The Bush Doctrine under GWB, where the author Paul Wolfowitz, a Jewish American, served as Deputy Secretary of Defense under Rumsfeld and helped shape middle-east foreign policy.

PNAC, the US neocon think-tank that publicly led the charge in lobbying for US-led military regime change in Iraq in the 90's, and whose members included Dick Cheney and Donald Rumseld, was founded and led by Jewish-Americans Robert Kagan and William Kristol, the latter of whom served in the Reagan and G.H.W. Bush admins, as foreign policy advisor on John McCain's POTUS campaign, and was a regular Bush admin apologist in the MSM (most would recognize his face from TV)

There were quite a few hawkish neoconservative Jews or worked within the G.W. Bush administration (and many also for Reagan/GH Bush admins) quite a few of whom were members/signatories of PNAC neocon initiatives in the 90's and early 2000's, many have been members of pro-Israel organizations, and almost all of them worked in foreign policy-related positions under Bush, including:

Paul Wolfowitz (Deputy Secretary of Defense)

Ari Fleischer (White House Press Secretary)

Richard Perle (foreign policy advisor, chairman of the Foreign Policy Board)

Douglas Feith (Undersecretary of Defense for Policy)

Elliot Abrams (National Security advisor)

Robert Zoellick (Deputy Secretary of State)

Scooter Libby (Dick Cheney's Chief of Staff)

Dov Zakheim (Under Secretary of Defense, also a Jewish Rabbi)

Kenneth Adelman (Pentagon Defense Policy Board)

Henry Kissinger (foreign policy advisor)

Robert Slatlof (US National Security Council advisor)

Edward Luttwak (Pentagon military strategist)

Marc Grossman (Director General of the US Foreign Service, and also worked in State Dept.)

Joshua Bolton (White House Chief of Staff)

Richard Hass (Director of Policy Planning for the State Dept & close advisor to Secretary of State Colin Powell)

Rush Davis (Director of Foreign Service)

James Schlesinger (Pentagon's Defense Policy Board)

Eliot Cohen (Pentagon's Defense Policy Board)

Lincoln Bloomfield (Assistant Secretary of State for Political Military Affairs)

Steve Goldsmith (special advisor to Bush)

Bonnie Cohen (Under Secretary of State)

David Frum (Bush speechwriter, created the term "Axis of Evil")

Obama also has Jews in his admin, but they're obviously less hawkish as a whole. The military hawks would obviously be more geared towards the Republican admins. While Saudis and i'm sure also Iranians do lobby gov, there's no Saudis or Iranians (as far as I know) working in the executive branches & actually formulating foreign policy.

[Moonlight Graham]

What might be most interesting about the above list is that:

- According to Wikipedia, Douglas Feith was fired in the early 80's as Middle-East analysts as the National Security, and that "later it was found out that Feith was fired due to an FBI investigation suspecting that he had distributed confidential materials to an Israeli embassy official".

- Richard Perle (from Wikipedia):

"It has been reported that, while he was working for [senator Jackson in the 70's], "An FBI summary of a 1970 wiretap recorded Perle discussing classified information with someone at the Israeli embassy," writes Paul Findley (They Dare To Speak Out, Chicago, Ill, Lawrence Hill Books 1989)."He came under fire in 1983 when newspapers reported he received substantial payments to represent the interests of an Israeli weapons company. Perle denied conflict of interest, insisting that, although he received payment for these services after he had assumed his position in the Defense Department, he was between government jobs when he worked for the Israeli firm."

From 1981 to 1987, Perle was Assistant Secretary of Defense for international security policy in the Reagan administration. In a New York Times article, Perle was criticized for recommending that the Army purchase an armaments system from an Israeli company that a year earlier had paid him $50,000 in consulting fees. Perle acknowledged receiving the payment the same month he joined the Reagan administration, but said the payment was for work done before joining the government and that he had informed the Army of this prior consulting work."

- Paul Wolfowitz, in 1978, was also "investigated for giving classified documents to an Israeli government official regarding the proposed sale of US weapons to an Arab government, through the auspices of an official with the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). An inquiry was launched but later dropped."

Edited June 23, 2016 by Moonlight Graham

[bush_cheney2004]

Wow....who knew?...Jewish Americans are allowed to work for the U.S. government.

[taxme]

You mean you wouldn't be as aware of the international cabals of Jews who are ruling the world?

Yup, something like that. But I am pretty sure that you are well aware of that, eh? Maybe it is true or maybe it is not. But all arrows seem to point in that direction. Hey, you never know.

[taxme]

Wow....who knew?...Jewish Americans are allowed to work for the U.S. government.

Ya, but I wonder as to how many more are working for the Israeli government as spies against America, Americas supposedly best friend, uhmm?

[bush_cheney2004]

Ya, but I wonder as to how many more are working for the Israeli government as spies against America, Americas supposedly best friend, uhmm?

No big deal....the Canadian spies and lobbyists want their share of influence peddling and American attention as well.

[taxme]

And yet is still about nine thousand times more accurate than your fringe websites which afflict you with your conspiracy theories and beliefs.

It is too bad that the mainstream media is so controlled by the corporate zionists. If that were not the case then maybe the MSM could be better relied on to tell the truth.

[taxme]

No big deal....the Canadian spies and lobbyists want their share of influence peddling and American attention as well.

What?"Canadian spies"? I was not aware that Canada has spies in America? What are they spying on? American women? I want to be a spy also. Dam those Canadian spies, just can't trust those Canucks, eh?

[taxme]

It's not working.

It sure is working, and I am quite happy with where I am getting my news from. Your globalist elites are not fooling enlighten people any more with their lies and bs. But carry on and keep listening to them, they are going to tell you all about what the real truths and facts are. Chuckle-chuckle.

[bush_cheney2004]

What?"Canadian spies"? I was not aware that Canada has spies in America? What are they spying on? American women? I want to be a spy also. Dam those Canadian spies, just can't trust those Canucks, eh?

Start a new topic...the point being made is that Israel lobbies for nation state interests in the USA, just as Canada and many other nations do. Last time I checked, the "Zionists" were not hot to build an oil pipeline to Nebraska.

[taxme]

Start a new topic...the point being made is that Israel lobbies for nation state interests in the USA, just as Canada and many other nations do. Last time I checked, the "Zionists" were not hot to build an oil pipeline to Nebraska.

Unless of course there was a buck to be made.

[Rue]

It is too bad that the mainstream media is so controlled by the corporate zionists. If that were not the case then maybe the MSM could be better relied on to tell the truth.

Another classic example of anti semitic drivel. Jaycee Hudson Jones and Ghost, please be my guest and defend this as reasonable criticism of Israel state policies. Right.

[Rue]

Unless of course there was a buck to be made.

Oh tee hee get it Jews, greedy, money Tee hee. That's valid criticism of Israeli state policies right Jace, Hudson Jones, Ghost? Hmm.?

[Rue]

It sure is working, and I am quite happy with where I am getting my news from. Your globalist elites are not fooling enlighten people any more with their lies and bs. But carry on and keep listening to them, they are going to tell you all about what the real truths and facts are. Chuckle-chuckle.

Listen giggle boy, calling people "you global elites" is giggly for you no doubt, but for some of us it simply shows your words are drivel. Tee hee. Seems to be another poster used to giggle a lot in his posts. The name changes, but my how the syntax remains the same.

Global elitists. Right. Real truth and facts. Right. You realize your phraseology shines through no matter how many names you use Moe?

[taxme]

Another classic example of anti semitic drivel. Jaycee Hudson Jones and Ghost, please be my guest and defend this as reasonable criticism of Israel state policies. Right.

So just how or where am I suppose to be anti-semitic? I wish people like you would stop labeling people who question anything to do with jews as their being anti-semitic. Geez, get real.

[jacee]

So just how or where am I suppose to be anti-semitic? I wish people like you would stop labeling people who question anything to do with jews as their being anti-semitic. Geez, get real.

You were being anti-semitic.

Ezra would not be amused.

.

Edited June 29, 2016 by jacee

[taxme]

You were being anti-semitic.

Ezra would not be amused.

.

That is it? I am being anti-semitic? What a comeback. Nice to see that you cannot come back with anything better than that. You just reinforced what I have been saying all along, and that is that jews cannot take any criticism about who or what they say or do. When one does they are labeled anti-semitic and attacked as people like Paul Fromm, Doug Christie or Doug Collins have found out. Well that is just to darn bad for you. Sob-sob.

Ezra is no different to any other jew. I have never heard him once ever criticize Israel or zionism. But then if he did, his program called The Rebel would be quickly labelled and attacked as being anti-semitic. Some whiney zionist group in Canada would see to that. They just go on and on.

Edited June 30, 2016 by taxme

[taxme]

Listen giggle boy, calling people "you global elites" is giggly for you no doubt, but for some of us it simply shows your words are drivel. Tee hee. Seems to be another poster used to giggle a lot in his posts. The name changes, but my how the syntax remains the same.

Global elitists. Right. Real truth and facts. Right. You realize your phraseology shines through no matter how many names you use Moe?

As the old saying goes "if you don't like the heat, then get out of the kitchen". Chuckle-chuckle.

[taxme]

Oh tee hee get it Jews, greedy, money Tee hee. That's valid criticism of Israeli state policies right Jace, Hudson Jones, Ghost? Hmm.?

I understand. The truth hurts. ha-ha.

[taxme]

Another classic example of anti semitic drivel. Jaycee Hudson Jones and Ghost, please be my guest and defend this as reasonable criticism of Israel state policies. Right.

Oh look, some body said something not so nice about jews or Israel. Boo-hoo.

Edited June 30, 2016 by taxme