The Essence of "hate" crimes...

[Argus]

40% of visible minority youth age 20-24 were born in Canada and thus have the same educational experience as other Canadians. Many others came to Canada as young children and were mainly educated in Canada. But they still encounter greater problems in the job market than whites.

It appears that race is a factor even when born in Canada.

.

If you can't tell how 60% of a group being born outside Canada could affect their job chances then you simply aren't interested in reality.

If you don't have the language skills, to say nothing of the education, job skills and cultural touchstones, you're going to be at a disadvantage regardless of the colour of your skin.

Even those born in Canada were likely born to foreign-born parents, and are raised with the same cultural issues, and in some communities, particularly the black community, there exists a lack of family support and structure and a lack of respect for education which will inevitably contribute to low success at job finding.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Argus

[The_Squid]

Why would you even need a cite other than to be annoying?

Nearly 6,264,800 people identified themselves as a member of a visible minority group. They represented 19.1% of the total population. Of these visible minorities, 30.9% were born in Canada and 65.1% were born outside the country and came to live in Canada as immigrants. A small proportion (4.0%) of the visible minority population was non-permanent residents.

https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/2011/as-sa/99-010-x/99-010-x2011001-eng.cfm

Because I didn't know... Skin colour isn't something I focus on...

[jacee]

If you can't tell how 60% of a group being born outside Canada could affect their job chances then you simply aren't interested in reality.

If you don't have the language skills, to say nothing of the education, job skills and cultural touchstones, you're going to be at a disadvantage regardless of the colour of your skin.

Even those born in Canada were likely born to foreign-born parents, and are raised with the same cultural issues, and in some communities, particularly the black community, there exists a lack of family support and structure and a lack of respect for education which will inevitably contribute to low success at job finding.

So we can only judge whether discrimination is a factor by looking only at 3rd generation Canadians? Is that your point? Can you provide a link for that?

[betsy]

So we can only judge whether discrimination is a factor by looking only at 3rd generation Canadians?

Well, no!

What about qualifications? Surely you'll wonder why a managerial position is given to an inexperienced person over an

experienced immigrant! There are fresh immigrants that are qualified for positions - but how many among them are aggressive enough, or would know enough how to go for it?

In interviews, maybe they do things differently in their old country (employers' priority may be different from ours - difference in values can affect that). You'd have to know too, the current "language," or terms that are preferred by interviewers.

Sometimes, experience is not enough. Teamwork could be the priority - if your personality will fit with the team

(depending on the position). If the team involved in sales regularly meet at a bar for drinks - what are the chances a woman wearing a burqua at the interview will get hired?

Just like anything, you've got to get the hang of it.

The point is that it's not usually because of discrimination why a lot of immigrants do not get plum positions.

Edited June 22, 2016 by betsy

[Argus]

So we can only judge whether discrimination is a factor by looking only at 3rd generation Canadians? Is that your point? Can you provide a link for that?

No, my point is that you can't judge whether there is discrimination based on statistics which tell you how many visible minorities are in the population.

[Argus]

Because I didn't know... Skin colour isn't something I focus on...

The accents aren't a clue?

[bush_cheney2004]

No, my point is that you can't judge whether there is discrimination based on statistics which tell you how many visible minorities are in the population.

Any country that officially uses racist terms like "visible minority" has discrimination by definition.

[Argus]

Any country that officially uses racist terms like "visible minority" has discrimination by definition.

Then you should indignantly storm out and refuse to converse with us any further.

[The_Squid]

The accents aren't a clue?

I didn't calculate the proportion of accents among people I encounter who have non-white skin. Like I said.... skin colour isn't something I focus on in my life.

Your contention was that it is because they're immigrants that they do worse in the job market. But from Jacee's link and post:

40% of visible minority youth age 20-24 were born in Canada and thus have the same educational experience as other Canadians. Many others came to Canada as young children and were mainly educated in Canada. But they still encounter greater problems in the job market than whites.

This certainly puts your contention to rest that it is because they are immigrants.

[cybercoma]

Also undermines the idea that it's their language skills, since they're educated in "our" schools speaking "our" language and yet still face barriers. There's been studies that show a foreign-looking name is less likely to get a callback from a resume or application. To deny the hurdles and blame the victims of inequality is just like Argus though.

[-1=e^ipi]

Successful people (no matter what color), never held up the "victim" card, in their quest for success.

Anita Sarkeesian disagrees. She's received over a million dollars playing the victim card.

[-1=e^ipi]

So we can only judge whether discrimination is a factor by looking only at 3rd generation Canadians? Is that your point? Can you provide a link for that?

Maybe. You could also use some sort of exponential decay towards equilibrium model.

[-1=e^ipi]

Also undermines the idea that it's their language skills, since they're educated in "our" schools speaking "our" language and yet still face barriers. There's been studies that show a foreign-looking name is less likely to get a callback from a resume or application. To deny the hurdles and blame the victims of inequality is just like Argus though.

The same studies by Philip Oreopoulos show are larger and more statistically significant female name bias. Are you going to admit that men are discriminated against when it comes to hiring?

[jacee]

No, my point is that you can't judge whether there is discrimination based on statistics which tell you how many visible minorities are in the population.

The stats are about employment.

.

[jacee]

The same studies by Philip Oreopoulos show are larger and more statistically significant female name bias. Are you going to admit that men are discriminated against when it comes to hiring?

Nobody denies that. It just used to be the opposite.

Show me that in the employment and pay rates.

.

Edited June 23, 2016 by jacee

[WestCoastRunner]

This thread has devolved into racist commentary and completely off topic.

[betsy]

Anita Sarkeesian disagrees. She's received over a million dollars playing the victim card.

That's different. That's not the kind of success I meant. I didn't mean winning lawsuits and settlements.

Yeah....this days, waving the "victim" card can be the "short cut" to becoming a millionaire.

No wonder so many are waving it like the flag on Canada Day!

Anyway....she was a successful person prior to that, right? She's already had achievements......and she didn't

use the victim card.

Edited June 23, 2016 by betsy

[-1=e^ipi]

I didn't mean winning lawsuits and settlements.

She didn't win any lawsuits or settlements.

She just had to play the damsel in distress being 'harassed' by all the evil 'misogynists' that disagree with her.

And of course the media is happy to go along with it, since it fits the narratives they want to convey.

[WestCoastRunner]

She didn't win any lawsuits or settlements.

She just had to play the damsel in distress being 'harassed' by all the evil 'misogynists' that disagree with her.

And of course the media is happy to go along with it, since it fits the narratives they want to convey.

Do you seriously believe that 'evil misogynists' don't exist? I assure you, they are alive and well.

[-1=e^ipi]

Nobody denies that.

Lots of people deny it. Many people claim the opposite and will deny the obvious implications of the Oreopoulos studies when confronted with evidence.

Show me that in the employment and pay rates.

According to the world bank, the male youth unemployment rate is 15%, while the female youth unemployment rate is 12%.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.UEM.1524.MA.NE.ZS

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.UEM.1524.FE.NE.ZS

Of course that doesn't tell the full story because discouraged workers, or people in long term unemployment are not taken into account for the definition of 'unemployment rate'.

You see this in other countries as well. For example, in the states, 16-19 year old men have a 20% unemployment rate, where as women only have a 15% unemployment rate. http://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea10.htm

Here's a link on how unemployed NEETs in Canada are primarily men: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/75-001-x/2012002/article/11675-eng.htm#a1

For job stability, I was referring to work like this: http://aix1.uottawa.ca/~pbrochu/CJE%20paper.pdf

Unfortunately, the figures are missing. I'll see if I can find a better link.

Here is similar work: https://open.library.ubc.ca/cIRcle/collections/ubctheses/831/items/1.0100332

Where a persistent 5% retention rate for low tenured workers (i.e. primarily young people) was found (see page 55).

From memory, the gap is higher now than it was 5 years ago and it's higher for young people, but I'll have to find a link.

For earnings, here are some links (just use google):

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/aug/29/women-in-20s-earn-more-men-same-age-study-finds

http://content.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274,00.html

[-1=e^ipi]

Do you seriously believe that 'evil misogynists' don't exist? I assure you, they are alive and well.

They exist. But not all of the people that criticize Anita Sarkeesian are 'evil misogynists'.

[Michael Hardner]

Back on topic please...

[jacee]

If you can't tell how 60% of a group being born outside Canada could affect their job chances then you simply aren't interested in reality.

The point is the other 40% born in Canada are having trouble getting hired too.

Even those born in Canada were likely born to foreign-born parents, and are raised with the same cultural issues, and in some communities, particularly the black community, there exists a lack of family support and structure and a lack of respect for education which will inevitably contribute to low success at job finding.

Good grief Argus.

You don't want to admit that racial discrimination in hiring exists ... while you're racially stereotyping and discriminating.

Mind boggling. :/

If you've ever had responsibility for hiring, you just may be part of the problem. Lol

.

[TimG]

while you're racially stereotyping and discriminating.

Do you believe that all cultures are exactly the same? That no culture does anything better than any other culture? For example do you reject the stereotype that native cultures are more in tune with the environment? Because if you don't show the same indignation when it comes to positive stereotypes then you have no business complaining about negative stereotypes.

[dre]

The only purpose behind hate crimes is for progressives to express their moral indignation

Oh good grief....