Scott Mayers Posted May 30, 2016 Report Share Posted May 30, 2016 Are "hate" crimes valid? They appear to be "thought" crimes in essence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Mayers Posted May 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2016 See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_Two_of_the_Canadian_Charter_of_Rights_and_Freedoms for reference in discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted May 30, 2016 Report Share Posted May 30, 2016 (edited) Are "hate" crimes valid? They appear to be "thought" crimes in essence. I believe, paraphrasing Sir Wilfred Laurier, that one's freedoms extend to the point where they interfere with the freedoms of another.I think if our behaviour reflects that, we wouldn't be indulging in any 'hate crimes'. As well as the Constitution/Charter, the Criminal Code and the Human Rights Act are relevant: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_Canada The Criminal Code prohibits "hate propaganda." The Canadian Human Rights Act prohibits discrimination on various grounds ... "race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, age, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, family status, disability and conviction for which a pardon has been granted." - Edit to add ... gender identity and expression - 'Live and let live' is also relevant. It's always wise to ask yourself whether you would consider your actions acceptable if they were directed at you instead. . Edited May 30, 2016 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 The Canadian Human Rights Act prohibits discrimination on various grounds ... "race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, age, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, family status, disability and conviction for which a pardon has been granted." - Edit to add ... gender identity and expression Yet the government discriminates based on race and sex for employment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 (edited) Yet the government discriminates based on race and sex for employment.Yes, as you are aware there's an exemption for affirmative action programs where past discrimination has resulted in imbalance.Groups who had more opportunity than others in the past may now have less. Such is life. Remember that the thread is about hate crimes, though. . Edited May 31, 2016 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 Groups who had more opportunity than others in the past may now have less. Cause 20 year olds were totally alive 30 years ago... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 I don't believe the government should get involved in people hating. Hurting, sure, but they should keep their noses out of hating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 Cause 20 year olds were totally alive 30 years ago... Priveleged groups are perhaps somewhat less privileged. 20 year olds today didn't experience that, so they can't miss it. It seems just something for some to complain about ... but there's no hate crime. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 (edited) Perhaps it is time for those practices to stop as well, Stop apologizing for something we have no control over. learn from it and move on.....What is wrong with hiring the best man or woman of any race , creed, color for the job....seems like a current cycle that will never be broken..... Edited May 31, 2016 by Army Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash74 Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 Perhaps it is time for those practices to stop as well, Stop apologizing for something we have no control over. learn from it and move on.....What is wrong with hiring the best man or woman of any race , creed, color for the job....seems like a current cycle that will never be broken..... I could not agree with you more. Now we have people that are "suffering" from white privilege. What a farce. If you want to make the world a better place we have to eliminate all prejudices not create new ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 (edited) Perhaps it is time for those practices to stop as well, Stop apologizing for something we have no control over. learn from it and move on.....What is wrong with hiring the best man or woman of any race , creed, color for the job....seems like a current cycle that will never be broken..... Because... 100 years ago white men were privileged or something. White men have historic privilege! Therefore, to correct for this we need to discriminate against young white men today. That is the socially just thing to do! Edited May 31, 2016 by -1=e^ipi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 (edited) Because... 100 years ago white men were privileged or something. White men have historic privilege! Therefore, to correct for this we need to discriminate against young white men today to correct for this. That is the socially just thing to do!Nonsense.You're not being discriminated against. You're just not getting way more than your fair share so easily anymore. Try harder. Edited May 31, 2016 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 (edited) You're not being discriminated against. Most of my job applications disagree. Why do millennial women out-earn millennial men? Why is the male youth unemployment rate much higher than the female youth unemployment rate? Why are young women 33% more likely to go to university than young men? Why is that a 2:1 hiring advantage for women (http://www.pnas.org/content/112/17/5360.abstract)? There have been studies that have shown a preference for female names on resumes over the past 10 years. Look, I know what the average attitude in Canada on hiring preferences is. Heck, many posters on this website have admitted given 2 similarly qualified candidates (1 male and 1 female), they will always choose the female, and feel all good and morally superior in doing so. I get it, young men are supposed to be scapegoated for the sins of the past, and a large segment of the population will feel all smug and socially just in doing so. Social justice is nothing more than the moral failure to recognize people as individuals. You're just not getting way more than your fair share so easily anymore. This may surprise you, but people are individuals. And I wasn't alive back in ancient times like you were. Edited May 31, 2016 by -1=e^ipi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 Because... 100 years ago 100 years ago? White people are not discriminated against in our society. Full stop. No one is denied housing because they're white. No one is denied a job because they're white. No one is denied a mortgage because they're white. No one assumes that a white person walking down the street at night is a threat. When white people are caught doing crimes it's labelled as a transgression or some sort of tragic falling. Sorry, but white people are still very much privileged, which means they don't have to worry about how their race is interpreted by others nor do they have to worry about their race holding them back in any area of life here in Canada or just about anywhere else in North America for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 100 years ago? White people are not discriminated against in our society. Full stop. No one is denied housing because they're white. No one is denied a job because they're white. No one is denied a mortgage because they're white. No one assumes that a white person walking down the street at night is a threat. When white people are caught doing crimes it's labelled as a transgression or some sort of tragic falling. Sorry, but white people are still very much privileged, which means they don't have to worry about how their race is interpreted by others nor do they have to worry about their race holding them back in any area of life here in Canada or just about anywhere else in North America for that matter. Not unless you were German, Irish, Polish, Italian, Spanish, Jewish or any number of other nationalities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 No one is denied housing because they're white. No one is denied a job because they're white. No one is denied a mortgage because they're white.A red herring since these statements are also true for 'insert whatever group' you like. I realize that people like you have a deep seated need to use racism to excuse the failure of different groups to thrive instead of looking at the problems with the culture of the groups in question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 I love how cybercoma completely ignores my points about sex and goes on about race in order to pretend what I wrote doesn't exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Mayers Posted May 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 100 years ago? White people are not discriminated against in our society. Full stop. No one is denied housing because they're white. No one is denied a job because they're white. No one is denied a mortgage because they're white. No one assumes that a white person walking down the street at night is a threat. When white people are caught doing crimes it's labelled as a transgression or some sort of tragic falling. Sorry, but white people are still very much privileged, which means they don't have to worry about how their race is interpreted by others nor do they have to worry about their race holding them back in any area of life here in Canada or just about anywhere else in North America for that matter. I am white and definitely HAVE been discriminated for jobs both for simply being relatively poor as those others in the same condition. It is an error to assume the foundational cause of discrimination IS ethnicity, race, sex, etc. because often these interpretations are due to noticing the largest groups of those ethnicities, sex, or race, who happen to have unusually large percentages of impoverishment is solely DUE to discrimination OF their ethnicity. While no doubt this does occur, this occurs universally even within every such group regardless, with most significance to those who embrace a pride in their 'kind' against all others. The same is likely for someone like yourself who probably IS doing better off and interprets your fortune as 'owned' by all of your ethnicity. Its poverty alone that provides the initial causes of discrimination and it is happenstance that there will always be some ethnic group(s) who represent large pluralities of both wealth and poverty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Mayers Posted May 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 Social justice is nothing more than the moral failure to recognize people as individuals. This sums up what I believe too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Mayers Posted May 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 P.S. Thanks jacee for adding the extra reference link. I originally commented on this but hadn't 'signed in' and so lost that post and thought I'd come back later to do so. I WAS focusing on the "hate" crimes but don't mind some of the digression as it can relate to this issue. But you're right that some of this discussion hasn't taken direct focus on this particularly yet. You're welcome to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 Yes, as you are aware there's an exemption for affirmative action programs where past discrimination has resulted in imbalance. Given most visible minorities weren't even present in Canada fifty years ago I fail to see how most of our affirmative action programs can be justified on this basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 Are "hate" crimes valid? They appear to be "thought" crimes in essence. The only purpose behind hate crimes is for progressives to express their moral indignation and make sure everyone knows how superior their liberal outlook on life is. They serve no other function. A crime is a crime, and we don't need anything added to that based on the color or religion of the victim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 Agreed. If someone punches me in the face, It doesn't make any difference whether they did it because of my colour or my soccer team. They're still gits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 The only purpose behind hate crimes is for progressives to express their moral indignation and make sure everyone knows how superior their liberal outlook on life is. Sorta like the Barbaric Cultural Practices Act? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 I hate barbaric cultural practices, and I don't think that's a crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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