Diplomacy -- Kevin Vickers in Ireland

[Big Guy]

Kevin Vickers, the hero of the Canadian parliament shootings is again in the news. He was appointed as Canada's Ambassador to Ireland (I assume because of his actions) and was attending a British Army celebration of a 1916 (I think) victory over Irish rebels (In Dublin)

He ended up making contact with an Irish protester and is now on international TV.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/raw-kevin-vickers-tackles-protester-in-dublin-1.3601486

Fellow diplomats say this is a big mistake. Army folks say this was a good thing. The Irish Republicans want to take him to court for assault.

Who is right?

[cannuck]

As much as I admire his contributions of the past, he made a definite faux pas as an Ambassador - even though I am once more cheering for him.

[cybercoma]

Need more details about the situation to form an opinion.

[jacee]

It looks like Vickers did a favour for the Irish Republic cause.

Murphy said the attention the international incident has garnered is raising the issue of Irish republicanism and what he sees as injustice toward two imprisoned men.

Put it this way, it wasnt my intention (but) the way things played out, you know, things are grand, said the manager of a youth and community centre in Dublin, who now faces a charge of breach of public order he says hell fight in court.

Cool.

Edited May 27, 2016 by jacee

[The_Squid]

He was there as the representative for Canada, not for crowd control. He should be recalled and turfed. Clearly he is no diplomat.

[bush_cheney2004]

He should have thrown a stiff elbow too....like his boss would have done.

[PIK]

I remember when being a Canadian meant you did not back down form trouble. Now we are a bunch a pussies. And what would you people being saying if he did nothing and someone was hurt or even killed.

[Big Guy]

I remember when being a Canadian meant you did not back down form trouble. Now we are a bunch a pussies. And what would you people being saying if he did nothing and someone was hurt or even killed.

What if JT was giving a speech in public and a protester stood up, lifted a sign supporting the Conservative party and started to shout something. The Ambassador from Ireland suddenly tackles that Conservative protester and drags him away. That Conservative protester has done nothing illegal so that is why no Canadian officers got involved.

Would that be OK with you?

[waldo]

I remember when being a Canadian meant you did not back down form trouble. Now we are a bunch a pussies. And what would you people being saying if he did nothing and someone was hurt or even killed.

"you people" would probably say something like... it looks like the police, military and security personnel present didn't manage to thwart the actions of that single lone protestor! I trust there was no glancing touch collateral damage to any boobs in Vickers way... still waiting breaking news on that, hey MLW member PIK!

.

[?Impact]

To put this incident in context, I can't think about the Senate page a few years back that held up the "Stop Harper" sign. While I may sympathize with her actions, I agree that she was rightfully dismissed. Mr. Vickers should be recalled.

[BC_chick]

What if JT was giving a speech in public and a protester stood up, lifted a sign supporting the Conservative party and started to shout something. The Ambassador from Ireland suddenly tackles that Conservative protester and drags him away. That Conservative protester has done nothing illegal so that is why no Canadian officers got involved.

Would that be OK with you?

Well said. Utterly unacceptable.

[jacee]

What if JT was giving a speech in public and a protester stood up, lifted a sign supporting the Conservative party and started to shout something. The Ambassador from Ireland suddenly tackles that Conservative protester and drags him away. That Conservative protester has done nothing illegal so that is why no Canadian officers got involved.

Would that be OK with you?

Even if Kevin Vickers, or anybody else did that in Canada, he'd be out of line.

You don't put hands on somebody just because they're protesting, exercising freedom of speech.

The police wouldn't just grab someone either, unless he resisted their requests.

He has inadvertently helped the protester's cause, though. Lol

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[PIK]

"you people" would probably say something like... it looks like the police, military and security personnel present didn't manage to thwart the actions of that single lone protestor! I trust there was no glancing touch collateral damage to any boobs in Vickers way... still waiting breaking news on that, hey MLW member PIK!

.

The protester was heading to the stage, vickers wrestle him for a while before the keystone cops got there. The last time vickers seen someone on the run, actually did kill someone. Maybe you would have stood by and let something happen, but most canadians that I know would have taken a stand. But then these are old stock canadians, I guess the new stock does'nt care about anything but themselves.

Edited May 27, 2016 by PIK

[G Huxley]

I don't know, but the protestor may have seemed to be a possibly violent threat. So there may have been some sort of justification.

That said, I think it likely also that Vickers might be affected by a sort of PTSD, with recent events and with his training, his immediate reaction likely kicked in to defend.

So really I think Vickers should be let off the hook, and just warned in the future that his role of ambassador is not the same as Sergeant of arms.

That said had the protestor actually been violent, as Vickers seems to have perceived Vickers may have saved the day a second time and this discussion would be quite different.

So I suggest offer the benefit of the doubt and move on.

[waldo]

Maybe you would have stood by and let something happen, but most canadians that I know would have taken a stand. But then these are old stock canadians, I guess the new stock doesn't care about anything but themselves.

you only know... old stockers? Aren't they a dying breed... left behind in the wake of the 2015 election? Perhaps you need to refresh your stock, yes?

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[Smoke]

100 seats ain't exactly being left behind...

[SpankyMcFarland]

This is not the ambassador's role. Both countries want to minimize the incident but I suspect a recall will be on the cards once the fuss has died down.

[Argus]

To put this incident in context, I can't think about the Senate page a few years back that held up the "Stop Harper" sign. While I may sympathize with her actions, I agree that she was rightfully dismissed. Mr. Vickers should be recalled.

The page held up a sign to attack the government, interrupting the business of parliament. Vickers prevented an interruption of a solemn ceremony.

[Argus]

This is not the ambassador's role. Both countries want to minimize the incident but I suspect a recall will be on the cards once the fuss has died down.

Only if the Irish are offended, and from what I've read they seem to be more bemused and amused. I see no ill feelings towards Vickers, even on the part of the man he grabbed.

Hand wringing Canadian liberals, of course, are breathless with anguish over the 'violence' he displayed. I think some of them were actually crying and cowering in corners just on seeing the pictures.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Argus

[waldo]

Only if the Irish are offended, and from what I've read they seem to be more bemused and amused. I see no ill feelings towards Vickers, even on the part of the man he grabbed.

it's certainly raised the issue/profile of Irish republicanism... not quite the role a foreign ambassador should have a hand in, yes? Which really begs the question as to why Canada’s representative in Ireland even attended a ceremony for British soldiers killed in the 1916 uprising.

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Hand wringing Canadian liberals, of course, are breathless with anguish over the 'violence' he displayed. I think some of them were actually crying and cowering in corners just on seeing the pictures.

haven't heard of anyone pulling a "Harper closet" run - have you?

.

[Argus]

haven't heard of anyone pulling a "Harper closet" run - have you?

You must be a hell of a chess player, Waldo. Just push that king right out there to meet every attack! That'll work!

[Derek 2.0]

I don't know, but the protestor may have seemed to be a possibly violent threat. So there may have been some sort of justification.

Yes indeed.......and that would be confirmed by MI5 raising the terror threat level from the PIRA a week prior.......at an event honoring soldiers killed by the Provos a century earlier.

Forgive me if I find no fault with Vickers' actions, and solace in the fact the incident was caused by a Republican poverty pimp and not an IRA proxy strapped with Semtex.

Meanwhile, Trudeau's reaction:

“It’s always easy to second-guess choices people make in emergency or unexpected situations,” Trudeau told reporters Saturday. “Canadians expect our diplomats abroad to do the right thing, to represent us well. We’re a country of people who believe in helping out and being part of the solutions, not part of the problems.

“That’s the perspective I take on this particular issue.”

In other words, the Prime Minister has yet to see any polling and will continue with his soar arse atop the fence

[waldo]

You must be a hell of a chess player, Waldo. Just push that king right out there to meet every attack! That'll work!

says the guy, YOU, throwing around the, "hand wringing, breathless, anguished, crying and corner cowering" summation of Canadian liberals response! You should actually read what you write sometime!

.

[Derek 2.0]

it's certainly raised the issue/profile of Irish republicanism... not quite the role a foreign ambassador should have a hand in, yes?

Clearly subjective, but I think the Irish managed that before Vickers going full Patriot Games on a protester....

Which really begs the question as to why Canada’s representative in Ireland even attended a ceremony for British soldiers killed in the 1916 uprising.

Really? Why would the Canadian ambassador attend the 100th anniversary of a significant event that help lead to partition and the creation of the Irish State?

Does that Waldo question when our ambassador attends 4th of July events down South?

[waldo]

Really? Why would the Canadian ambassador attend the 100th anniversary of a significant event that help lead to partition and the creation of the Irish State?

Does that Waldo question when our ambassador attends 4th of July events down South?

oh really? What was Canada's role and the precursor to Canada's role in each of the events, the Irish 'Easter Rising' and the American Revolution, respectively?

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