Israeli War Crimes - Part 2

[Rue]

Really? Please show some reliable cites on how majority of the people who call themselves Palestinians are/were descendants of non-Palestinian Muslims and moved in and took over the real Palestinians' land.

I have in the past and you ignored the responses so why pretend you've never been given them or are interested in them?

http://www.jpost.com/Blogs/Why-World-Opinion-Matters/Are-Arabs-the-indigenous-people-of-Palestine-402785

http://www.meforum.org/522/the-smoking-gun-arab-immigration-into-palestine

http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~peters/immigration.html

http://www.theettingerreport.com/OpEd/General/Who-are-the-Palestinian-Arabs-.aspx

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/182419

http://www.israeladvocacy.net/knowledge/the-truth-about-palestinian-refugees/did-european-jews-displace-palestinians/#sthash.qy6zCXur.dpbs

http://www.mideastoutpost.com/archives/arab-immigration-to-historic-palestine-a-survey-by-richard-mather.html

[Rue]

I pulled out a very ancient human principle that applies everywhere to everyone every single day.

Westphalia simply embodies and extends the same principle to nations for the same obvious reasons. Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you is a simple effective formula for getting along with others.

I understand perfectly well what I'm talking about.

First off I challenge your misapplication of the concept of sovereignty as suggested in the Westaphalian principle, not the principle itself.

Secondly, you haven't a clue what it is you are referring to and are making things up as you go along and bluf your way through a debate with me. Know when to walk away.

Westphalian sovereignty refers to a principle of international law every nation state has sovereignty over its territory and domestic affairs, to the exclusion of all external powers based on the principle of non-interference in another country's domestic affairs.

It also holds that each state (no matter how large or small) is equal in international law.

It has nothing to do with the Golden Rule you quote. There is a doctrine of reciprocity in international law but that I s something else.

The principle you keep throwing out does not applyto the situation on the West Bank as that disputed land has never been and is still not a nation.

Thisdoctrine its not applied to disputed land claims where the lands are not part of a nation and no it was never intended to apply to disputed land claims outside a nation.

What makes your misapplication even more hilarious (I do note you avoid admitting the West Bank is not a sovereigns tate but keep pretending it is) In fact and herein, is the irony that the PA, Hamas and all the Palestinian terrorist groups, the Arab League of Nations reject categorically and openly this principle.

Lol. Yah you knew that, Lol.

Yah you know what you are talking about. Right.

If they did then the principle would requires all these Palestinian terror cells, Hamas, Hezbollah, the PA, the Arab League

of Nations to recognize the right of Jews to self determination and having the equal right of a state for Jews

as Muslims have Muslim states or so called Palestinians would have for a Palestinian state.

Its not a principle that only applies to Muslims or Palestinians and suddenly is ignored when it comes to Jews and Israel..

Right. You want Hamas to recognize Israel as a Jewish state, Hezbollah too right? Lol. Sure.

Run along Eye and speak with Hamas and Hezbollah and tell them to apply the doctrine of Westphalia. Lol.

​

Edited September 22, 2016 by Rue

[marcus]

I have in the past and you ignored the responses so why pretend you've never been given them or are interested in them?

http://www.jpost.com/Blogs/Why-World-Opinion-Matters/Are-Arabs-the-indigenous-people-of-Palestine-402785

http://www.meforum.org/522/the-smoking-gun-arab-immigration-into-palestine

http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~peters/immigration.html

http://www.theettingerreport.com/OpEd/General/Who-are-the-Palestinian-Arabs-.aspx

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/182419

http://www.israeladvocacy.net/knowledge/the-truth-about-palestinian-refugees/did-european-jews-displace-palestinians/#sthash.qy6zCXur.dpbs

http://www.mideastoutpost.com/archives/arab-immigration-to-historic-palestine-a-survey-by-richard-mather.html

None of that responds to your claim that non-Palestinian Arabs "took" the land of Palestinians. You tried equating the Jewish migrants with Muslim migrants. Like there is some equivalency.

Your links are more of the same propaganda and myth that Palestine was just a desert before the mass Jewish migration. Daniel Pipes? HAH!

The fact still remains that less than 7% of the population of Palestine were Jewish in early 1900, before the mass Jewish migration from mostly Europe. These Jews have no real connection (historic) to the land anyway. They were mostly (Khazars) Turks who converted to Judaism in 700AD.

Palestine had a population of over 600,000 with over 90% of them Palestinian Arabs in the early 1900's. That is significant.

Plus, this is not a question of whether it's okay to migrate. This is a question of whether it's okay to come and steal another person's land and not allow that person to return. AKA ethnic cleansing. Which has been the Zionist plan all along. Ethnically cleanse as many non-Jews from Palestine to make way for Jews.

Edited September 22, 2016 by marcus

[Rue]

None of that responds to your claim that non-Palestinian Arabs "took" the land of Palestinians. You tried equating the Jewish migrants with Muslim migrants. Like there is some equivalency.

Of course they do. You never read them.

Of course when a Jew migrated to Palestine its no different than when a Muslim or any other human did it.

Your bigotry speaks loudly.

You are so entrenched in your hated the very notion of a Jew and Muslim being equal blows your mind away.

Lol.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Rue

[eyeball]

Westphalian sovereignty refers to a principle of international law every nation state has sovereignty over its territory and domestic affairs, to the exclusion of all external powers based on the principle of non-interference in another country's domestic affairs.

Yes it applies to a principle most people apply and have applied to them all the time.

By not interfering in other people's lives people have a pretty good expectation of not having their life interfered with. Happens all the time.

[Rue]

Marcus not only have you tried to bluff your way through a debate with me pretending to have read sites you never did, but now you claim Muslims and Jews are not equals when they migrate.

But it gets better, your idea of debate is to present the Jew as Khazar myth. That Marcus was pathetic. You really think the Jew as Khazar myth is your way of establishing why you are a bigot against Jews and not Muslims who came to Palestine? Lol.

Wow. Kaboom.

But hang on I still have to deal with international law treaty quoter Eye.

Eye, if the Westphalian principle applies then:

1-the principle of the sovereignty of states and the fundamental right of political self determination apply which means Israel

.has a right to exist as a Jewish state.

2-the principle of legal equality between states applies which means the Arab League of Nations and the PA would need to recognize the state of

​Israel before it would also have to accept recognition of another Palestinian state

.
3-The principle of non-intervention of one state in the internal affairs of another state would apply which means the Arab League of Nations 5 wars againsgt Israel should never have happened and the declaration of war between all the Arab League nations and Israel other than Jordan and Egypt need to be removed and oooooopsy now Hamas and the Palestinian terror cells and the PA have to disavow themselves of war and terror against Israel.

Lol.

Now back to Marcus who claims Jews are Khazars because hey when in doubt throw out the Khazar myth...

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Khazar_myth

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/features/1.601287

http://chelm.freeyellow.com/khazar.html

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2834625/posts?page=3

Hey now back to Ghost. This thread anti semitic? What telling Jews they are not Jews but Khazars is not anti semitic and is germaine

to allegations of war crimes? Yah please defend his rants.

While you are at it explain to him that 700,000 Jews forced to fleed to Israel were not Ashkenazi Jews the ones his idiot theory claim are Khazars.

[Rue]

Yes it applies to a principle most people apply and have applied to them all the time.

By not interfering in other people's lives people have a pretty good expectation of not having their life interfered with. Happens all the time.

Babble. Westphalia has nothing to do with not interfering in other peoples' lives.

More to the point explain your new theory of not interfering with Israeli lives to Hamas, Hezbollah, PFLP, ISIL-DAESH, Al Quaeda, Islamic Jihad Intifada, PA, Fatah, Iran.

Lol you want to sit and lecture about not interfering with peoples' lives? Tell me when was the last time you said to Palestinians, oh yoo hoo, you over there, stop knifing innocent civilians. Psst you Mr. Hamas, yes you, you big brown man, stop building tunnels. Stop the terrorism. Its just not Westrphalian of you.

Lord what next you getting on a Flotilla and floating to Gaza to advocate for Westphalian tolerance?

Edited September 22, 2016 by Rue

[eyeball]

Eye, if the Westphalian principle applies then:

1-the principle of the sovereignty of states and the fundamental right of political self determination apply which means Israel

.has a right to exist as a Jewish state.

2-the principle of legal equality between states applies which means the Arab League of Nations and the PA would need to recognize the state of

​Israel before it would also have to accept recognition of another Palestinian state.

3-The principle of non-intervention of one state in the internal affairs of another state would apply which means the Arab League of Nations 5 wars againsgt Israel should never have happened and the declaration of war between all the Arab League nations and Israel other than Jordan and Egypt need to be removed and oooooopsy now Hamas and the Palestinian terror cells and the PA have to disavow themselves of war and terror against Israel.

Lol.

Thankfully the human principle says no such thing and anyone is free to take the first step whenever they choose.

[eyeball]

Westphalia has nothing to do with not interfering in other peoples' lives.

Those nations who don't apply it do.

More to the point explain your new theory of not interfering with Israeli lives to Hamas, Hezbollah, PFLP, ISIL-DAESH, Al Quaeda, Islamic Jihad Intifada, PA, Fatah, Iran.

you want to sit and lecture about not interfering with peoples' lives? Tell me when was the last time you said to Palestinians, oh yoo hoo, you over there, stop knifing innocent civilians. Psst you Mr. Hamas, yes you, you big brown man, stop building tunnels. Stop the terrorism. Its just not Westrphalian of you.

I'm quite certain we have envoys, ambassadors and NGO's etc trying to do this all the time.

Lol

I'm pretty sure there's lots of that flying both ways too.

[Rue]

Thankfully the human principle says no such thing and anyone is free to take the first step whenever they choose.

Westphalia is not "the human principle".

You now invent a new principle you call the human principle and make it up as you go along.

[Rue]

Those nations who don't apply it do.

I'm quite certain we have envoys, ambassadors and NGO's etc trying to do this all the time.

I'm pretty sure there's lots of that flying both ways too.

Your first comment makes no sense. Please explain how the Arab League of Nations by refusing to recognize Israel's right to self determination as a Jewish state recognizes its right to self determination.

In regards to your second comment, it also makes no sense. Envoys, ambassadors, are not enforcers of sovereignty. They might be symbols of sovereignty. NGO's of course do not enforce sovereignty. They might recognize it.

The only thing flying at this point is you making crap up as you go along.

[marcus]

Of course they do. You never read them.

Of course when a Jew migrated to Palestine its no different than when a Muslim or any other human did it.

Your bigotry speaks loudly.

You are so entrenched in your hated the very notion of a Jew and Muslim being equal blows your mind away.

Lol.

Wrong.

There is a difference between migrating and settling than systematically pushing out people who already live on that land.

How come there is never a discussion about the Nakba, where over 500 Palestinian villages were destroyed and the owners of that land were never allowed to return? Did other, so-called non-Palestinian Arabs do such a thing? Of course not. You are trying to create a parallel between Jewish migrants and the Muslim migrants, because that's what you do; You try to twist information in order to give a pass for the actions of one of the most vile ideologies in recent human history, Zionism.

[DogOnPorch]

Wrong.

There is a difference between migrating and settling than systematically pushing out people who already live on that land.

How come there is never a discussion about the Nakba, where over 500 Palestinian villages were destroyed and the owners of that land were never allowed to return? Did other, so-called non-Palestinian Arabs do such a thing? Of course not. You are trying to create a parallel between Jewish migrants and the Muslim migrants, because that's what you do; You try to twist information in order to give a pass for the actions of one of the most vile ideologies in recent human history, Zionism.

The Arabs started a war and lost. They honestly thought they would be victorious over the Jews. They had the numbers and weapons, etc.

But they lost...and stuff happens in war that doesn't happen in peace.

My advice: don't start wars.

[eyeball]

Westphalia is not "the human principle".

I did not say it was, I said the human principle is simply embodied within and reflected by Westphalia.

You now invent a new principle you call the human principle and make it up as you go along.

No, I'm not Jesus Christ. Lol! And he wasn't the only one who idealized it when they said “Whatever is hurtful to you, do not do to any other person.”

The canyon of difference that you imagine exists between a nation or an individual applying this principle in their dealings with others is merely a crack in the sidewalk to me. That's why a handful of words are all that's needed to fill it.

[eyeball]

Your first comment makes no sense.

You said "Westphalia has nothing to do with not interfering in other peoples' lives".

What I meant when I said those nations who don't apply it (Westphalia) are in fact interfering in other people's lives. Obviously when a nation interferes with another's sovereignty its also going to interfere in the lives of the people within it. That's just as often the point of doing it in the first place.

Edited September 22, 2016 by eyeball

[Big Guy]

Fortunately the Palestinians are not giving in to Israeli tactics. Abbas is not allowing the world to forget about the Israeli cancer slowly absorbing Palestinian land:

UN Wakeup

Let us hope Canada takes the lead to begin to charge Israel with those war crimes.

[DogOnPorch]

Fortunately the Palestinians are not giving in to Israeli tactics. Abbas is not allowing the world to forget about the Israeli cancer slowly absorbing Palestinian land:

UN Wakeup

Let us hope Canada takes the lead to begin to charge Israel with those war crimes.

Just more Islamic terrorists.

[GostHacked]

The Arabs started a war and lost. They honestly thought they would be victorious over the Jews. They had the numbers and weapons, etc.

But they lost...and stuff happens in war that doesn't happen in peace.

My advice: don't start wars.

Apparently the Jews lost a war a long time ago, and they are still bitter about it.

[DogOnPorch]

Apparently the Jews lost a war a long time ago, and they are still bitter about it.

Not sure about bitter. But they have well documented history re: the Romans and wars if that's what you mean. The Siege of Jerusalem and adjoining battles were a spectacular affair. Rome's Viet-Nam. The word 'Zealot' comes from the elite troops that defended the city against Titus and crew.

The darn Jews didn't start that war, either.

[Michael Hardner]

Please be sure to keep to the topic.

[DogOnPorch]

Please be sure to keep to the topic.

After 33 pages you'd think we could discuss one Israeli War Crime (Pt 2)...but, you know...there's a material shortage.

[Rue]

Wrong.

There is a difference between migrating and settling than systematically pushing out people who already live on that land.

How come there is never a discussion about the Nakba, where over 500 Palestinian villages were destroyed and the owners of that land were never allowed to return? Did other, so-called non-Palestinian Arabs do such a thing? Of course not. You are trying to create a parallel between Jewish migrants and the Muslim migrants, because that's what you do; You try to twist information in order to give a pass for the actions of one of the most vile ideologies in recent human history, Zionism.

Wrong? Lo. What is the difference between a Muslim who migrates to Palestine and pushes people out who live on the land and a Jew who supposedly does the same? In your world only Jews did it. So again you show how devoid of any credibility you are when it comes to discussing the origins of the land claims.

The discussion you now want to engage in has nothing to do with war crimes. You again show you use this thread to engage in propaganda to fill your agenda to contest the right of Israel to exist as a nation not discuss any alleged actions the IDF did.

By the way when you want to enter into a level and balanced discussion that doesn't simply spin negative subjective false allegations about Israel let me know. Save your Nakba stories for your demonstrations once a year at Queen's park ok that is not what this thread was started about and hey who has stopped you ever from starting a Nakba thread?

The only think I have done on this thread is challenge its vile and hateful words, one by one and watch as each one of you who came swarming to piss on Israel one after the other fizzle.

Nakba. Right.

[Hudson Jones]

International law should not be a suicide pact. Your ministrations would make it one.

No it shouldn't and it doesn't have to be.

Not sure why you think if Israel follows the law it would mean that it would have to sacrifice its existence.

Israel would not be committing suicide if it removes the settlements.

Israel would not be committing suicide if it removes the wall that cuts deep into Palestinian territory.

Israel would not be committing suicide if it allows a Palestinian State to be formed.

No one buys the tired old "it's all for defensive measures" or "everyone wants to destroy us" propaganda anymore.

[bush_cheney2004]

...No one buys the tired old "it's all for defensive measures" or "everyone wants to destroy us" propaganda anymore.

False...many in Israel still do, as do many in the U.S.

I don't think anyone here speaks for all people with varying views and "support".

[DogOnPorch]

The Palestinian Cause's goal = Ethnic Cleansing or Genocide...whatever. It's just incapable of either...or making peace. Too much $$$$ in the endless war with Israel. Peace could happen tomorrow. All it takes is a phone call.