Transgender

[BC_chick]

Who is the victim when a brother and sister hook up?

Post 137.

[TimG]

Post 137.

The push to normalize a mental illness like trasgenderism is creating victims too:

Here is a article that talks about the transgender zealots are trying to turn sex changes into something as simple as wardrobe change instead of something that should be an absolute last restort:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/435752/most-heartbreaking-post-day-transgender-edition

Although the APA recommends a minimum of one year of gender counseling before surgery, this gender therapist (whom I consented to, before really understanding what I was doing) gave my daughter the go-ahead to have a bilateral mastectomy after only two sessions.

...

She has been taken advantage of. Healthy organs were amputated. This is insurance fraud, poor clinical practice, a violation of APA standards, unethical and unjust. It is a crime not just against women, but particularly against disabled women. So many of these young women who are transitioning are also autistic.

Edited May 24, 2016 by TimG

[BC_chick]

We've been over this. They are still the victims, not perpetrators.

Therefore no 'slippery slope' to pedophilia and bestiality (what I've been arguing the whole time).

[TimG]

We've been over this. They are still the victims, not perpetrators.

Yet you clearly don't give a damn about those victims because seeing ill people taken advantage of by activists happens to suit your ideological agenda. Edited May 24, 2016 by TimG

[BC_chick]

Yet you clear don't give a damn about those victims because seeing ill people taken advantage of by activists happens to suit your ideological agenda.

I'm not sure what your point is here TimG. Please finish this sentence for me:

Some people have reported possible unethical transition practices, therefore I think:

1) All transgenders are actually cisgender and brainwashed

2) Transgender rights will lead to legalization of pedophilia and bestiality

3) Incest should be legal

4) I don't really know what my point is but I don't like transgender people

[GostHacked]

I am with TimG here..... telling young kids that it's ok to be something they are not when they have not even figured out what and who they are yet is creating future victims.

Not only that, these operations are very expensive and the drug therapy is not cheap either and is something that needs to be taken even after the surgery. And it's not like this can be easily reversed either. I am wondering how many transgendered went through the operations and then regretted it afterwards?

[BC_chick]

Of course they're wrong. Who on earth would say it's right?

I just don't understand the point he's trying to make. Does he think this is a regular occurrence? Or that such an occurrence means everyone who says they're transgender is really just brainwashed.?

What is the relevance to the discussion of transgender protection?

[TimG]

I'm not sure what your point is here TimG.

I have absolutely no issue with an adult wants to dress up in drag and live their life.

The issue I have is the conceit that transgenders who seek sex change surgeries are not mentally ill people because no mentally healthy person would subject themselves to that kind of radical intervention. I would not describe a transgender as mentally ill if they accept their body the way it is and chooses only to change their public gender identity.

I have an even bigger issue with sex change operations being promoted as viable options to kids and teens struggling with their identity. That is simply abuse and there is no justification. The message to kids has to be 'accept your body the way it is'. If you feel comfortable wearing clothing that is normally worn by the opposite gender then that is fine. But surgery is a last resort only for adults who are really messed up.

[BC_chick]

I have an even bigger issue with sex change operations being promoted as viable options to kids and teens struggling with their identity. That is simply abuse and there is no justification. The message to kids has to be 'accept your body the way it is'. If you feel comfortable wearing clothing that is normally worn by the opposite gender then that is fine. But surgery is a last resort only for adults who are really messed up.

I still fail to see how this relates to anything I have contributed to this discussion.

The only stance I have taken is that the slippery slope argument toward pedophilia and bestiality is ridiculous. Whether or not transgender kids are allowed to transition too early in life is not something I have even commented on so I'm not sure why you're responding to my posts about 'slippery slope' with this.

Are you making a connection? Even if the kids are being taken advantage of, how does this refute anything I've said about the slippery slope argument being really dumb.

Edited May 24, 2016 by BC_chick

[jacee]

The push to normalize a mental illness like trasgenderism is creating victims too:

Here is a article that talks about the transgender zealots are trying to turn sex changes into something as simple as wardrobe change instead of something that should be an absolute last restort:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/435752/most-heartbreaking-post-day-transgender-edition

Tragic story.

However her "mental illness" wasn't transgenderism: It was Autism, according to her professor-of-social-work mother.

And it does appear that the 'gender counsellor' was horribly incompetent in this case, failed to look at medical history and do a proper evaluation.

The girl was of the legal age of consent but not functioning at that mental age.

The mother believes that her daughter may simply be lesbian.

There is no doubt that mistakes can occur in cases where the distress of mental illness and gender issues combine with incompetent therapists.

However, it appears that there are many more people who regret plastic surgery (65%) than regret gender reassignment surgery (2%).

myths-about-transition-regrets

There is an obvious need for better training and certification to protect people from incompetent therapists.

Also, in places where gender reassignment surgery is a 'free market enterprise' (eg, US), there may be more cases of using a 'sales pitch' to 'close the deal'.

But let's call incompetence and greed what they are and deal with those issues, instead of broadbrushing people as "transgender zealots".

This all leads me to think that it is best for gender reassignment surgery to be publicly funded like other health care, for better criteria, evaluation, time lags that allow for introspection and deep consideration, follow up, etc.

.

Edited May 24, 2016 by jacee

[-1=e^ipi]

And it's not like this can be easily reversed either.

In that case, do you support banning male infant genital mutilation?

[-1=e^ipi]

However her "mental illness" wasn't transgenderism: It was Autism

Neither autism nor transgenderism are mental illnesses.

[-1=e^ipi]

So let me see if I understand the conservative position:

Mutilating the genitals of infant males without consent is fine.

But someone choosing to change their sex and gives consent to a sex change operation is not fine.

Does no one see how messed up that is?

[Bryan]

Neither autism nor transgenderism are mental illnesses.

The latter most certainly is.

[eyeball]

It's only the reaction to transgenderism that brings on derangement.

[Hal 9000]

It's a thread drift because I already answered his question and it was consistent with everything I've said about victimless crimes.

Not shockingly, it seems to have gone over your head.

You're only answer is; Incest is disgusting.

There are no real victims of incest - at least not any more than those children born with FAS or the babies of drug users. And, if done with care (as I mentioned before) then incestual people don't or won't even have children. We accept homosexuals knowing that they won't produce, but might choose adoption. Same can be true if brothers and sisters marry and choose adoption (or alternatives) instead of child bearing.

Incest is still taboo, because well...people like you just think it's disgusting. Movies and TV are still able to laugh and make jokes about incest, and in fact many liberals in the world as well as in the forum make jokes and trash the incestuals and their rights. I've seen people here and even news pundits on CNN and MSNBC suggest and laugh calling Trump supports hillbillies and inbreds.

People that think this way are bigots and they choose to hang their bigotry on some 19th century thinking about inbreds, but it's a new world now. I know, all you liberals have fear and hatred for the incestual, but you'll have to accept that they have rights too. If you claim that you're not a bigot, then you'll have to admit that incest is normal and you support it. Right?

[BC_chick]

Hal, what did I say about the criminal aspect of incest, disgusting or not?

[Hal 9000]

Hal, what did I say about the criminal aspect of incest, disgusting or not?

I disagree with your "criminal" aspect, mainly because we don't jail mothers who drink, smoke or do drugs while pregnant.

But, I am glad that you believe incest (other than reproduction) is normal. That's a start!

[BC_chick]

I disagree with your "criminal" aspect, mainly because we don't jail mothers who drink, smoke or do drugs while pregnant.

But, I am glad that you believe incest (other than reproduction) is normal. That's a start!

What is 'normal'?

[Hal 9000]

What is 'normal'?

Well, if .03% of the population (transgenders) can be listed as normal, I guess anything acceptable by society should be considered normal.

[BC_chick]

So what percentage is your threshold for 'normal'?

[Hal 9000]

So what percentage is your threshold for 'normal'?

Well, formerly I've always prescribed to the idea that "normal" ranges fairly close to average...or typical. However, since joining this group, I've been inundated with liberals telling me that such things as homosexuality and now transgender is normal. If such small percentages of minorities are now considered normal, then I'd have to list incest with the term "normal" as well. I know the rule, if everything is normal, then nothing is.

If you can accept transgender as normal...and therefore acceptable, surely you look at incest with the same open-mindedness.

Maybe we're keying on the wrong word though, I prefer to ask you why you'd use the word "disgusting". It seems that wether these people engage in criminal behaviour or not, you're still using the word "disgusting"...why?

[TimG]

So what percentage is your threshold for 'normal'?

Normally within 2 standard deviation is normal so any population <5% is not normal.

That said, I understand the point behind normalization because some transgenders are perfectly fine with how they are and only want society to accept them too. This is a reasonable expectation.

The trouble only comes up when a transgender insists they need radical surgery to help them deal with their nature. Transgenders who fall into this category are mentally ill and need help since it is not normal to want to mutilate one's body. It is simply dishonest to try an call transgenders who fall into this category as 'normal'.

[Moonlight Graham]

The only real solution is to make all bathrooms and change areas open to any gender.

Why bathrooms at all? Maybe we should all do what I've been doing since 2004 and just find any ol' quiet corner and pop a squat.

[Bryan]

I wonder if the real issue is that some people just don't like the word normal. Or, more specifically, they think that if something is said to not be normal, that in itself is a pejorative.

If something is not what you typically expect to see -- the average experience -- it's not normal. I'm left-handed. I have no issue with people saying that it's not normal, because it's quite obvious that it's far less common than being right handed. The world is not designed to accommodate me, nor should it be. Because I am the one that is different. It's nobody else's problem to make sure that left-handed versions of anything are available to me. One of the machines that I use at work is set-up with all of the controls on the right. It's extremely awkward for me to use. But it would be ridiculous for me to expect them to retrofit the thing to suit me.