America under President Trump

[WestCanMan]

56 minutes ago, eyeball said:

in my opinion Biden was the VP of a war criminal so I could care less what happens to him.

In the meantime my question stands, why should anything Biden's done excuse Trump from being subjected to impeachment?  Is there some new legal principle based on two wrongs making something right that I'm unaware of?

Trump didn't do anything wrong. There's an agreement between the US and Ukraine to aid each other in investigating crime. Seeing as there was solid reason to believe that influence peddling happened Trump had good reason to ask if there was info.

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

Real enough to extort military money for political gain too?

Speculation again.

[WestCanMan]

51 minutes ago, Boges said:

It's the principals of "two wrongs most certainly make a right."

It's the principles of 1)Biden most likely committed a crime and 2)an investigation should be started.

[Boges]

1 minute ago, WestCanMan said:

Speculation again.

Zelensky asks about Javelins and Trump immediately asks for a favour. 

Only speculation if you're wildly partisan. 

[Boges]

Just now, WestCanMan said:

It's the principles of 1)Biden most likely committed a crime and 2)an investigation should be started.

By extorting Ukraine. 

https://www.wcbi.com/texts-show-diplomats-pushed-ukraine-to-open-probes-live-updates/

[WestCanMan]

26 minutes ago, Boges said:

By extorting Ukraine. 

https://www.wcbi.com/texts-show-diplomats-pushed-ukraine-to-open-probes-live-updates/

If any of this stuff starts to be proven true I'll start to reconsider this situation. I have very good reason to doubt every single source that you cite, based on your proven track record here for propagating misinformation. 

[Argus]

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

So which is it Argus? Should stuff like this be investigated or is Donald Trump's word that it's all legit good enough for you? What if Fox News says it's all good? Will that satisfy you Argus? I guess so, seeing as you're personally exonerating Biden.

I would think that this ought to be fairly obvious, but apparently not to Trumpists.

Where there is some evidence of a crime it ought to be investigated. There is NO evidence that Hunter Biden or Joe Biden did anything wrong. The Trumpists are insinuating that Joe Biden did something wrong by pressuring Ukraine to get rid of an ineffective prosecutor who wasn't investigating corruption. Even though the State Department and Republican Senators and the EU and others in the West were urging the same. Their suggestion is based on a supposition that the prosecutor was investigating the younger Biden, but that simply isn't true. He wasn't. Therefore there is no conceivable conflict involved.

Trumps family cutting business deals with China while they in their official capacity negotiate with China, on the other hand, shows clear conflicts of interest that none of the Trumpists, and certainly not the blowhard in chief seems even slightly interested in investigating.

[Boges]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

If any of this stuff starts to be proven true I'll start to reconsider this situation. I have very good reason to doubt every single source that you cite, based on your proven track record here for propagating misinformation. 

You know, I actually try to pick sources that aren't traditional MSM just to try and blunt this Fake News BS.

But I guess that's a fool's errand, you'll discredit any source as Fake News. Good to know. 

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Trump didn't do anything wrong.

That's an opinion that the impeachment process will resolve.  You still haven't answered what Biden's past has to do with Trump being excused from that process?  

 

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There's an agreement between the US and Ukraine to aid each other in investigating crime. Seeing as there was solid reason to believe that influence peddling happened Trump had good reason to ask if there was info.

Go tell it to the impeachment process.  I fail to see why Trump would want to avoid it if he's completely innocent. Quite the contrary given how big a boost he'd probably get from exoneration don't you think? 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

Go tell it to the impeachment process.  I fail to see why Trump would want to avoid it if he's completely innocent. Quite the contrary given how big a boost he'd probably get from exoneration don't you think? 

 

Impeachment is not a criminal process...it is totally political, by design. Has nothing to do with "innocence".

Joe Biden is a presidential candidate and will be subjected to opposition research, investigations, and dirty tricks, just like everybody else.

Nothing special about Joe Biden (presidential loser)....or Donald Trump (presidential winner).

[Boges]

4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Joe Biden is a presidential candidate and will be subjected to opposition research, investigations, and dirty tricks, just like everybody else.

Yes but when you use the power of POTUS to leverage dirt on a political opponent you move into the realm of dictatorships. 

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Want this Military Aide Ukraine? Better look into the son of one of my likely opponents next year. 

 

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Boges said:

Yes but when you use the power of POTUS to leverage dirt on a political opponent you move into the realm of dictatorships. 

 

 

Nonsense....incumbents have always had this power and used it, not just Trump.

A Canadian PM with ruling majority has more unchecked power than a U.S. president.    Dictatorship !!!!!

[Boges]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

Nonsense....incumbents have always had this power and used it, not just Trump.

Cite beyond when the existential threat is Nazis. 

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A Canadian PM with ruling majority has more unchecked power than a U.S. president.    Dictatorship !!!!!

Uhhh No. If a PM loses the confidence of his party, or the majority of the house, he/she can face a vote of non confidence. Much quicker than an impeachment and a trial. 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Boges said:

Cite beyond when the existential threat is Nazis.

 

Oh, because you already lost that argument.   Nazis !

 

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Uhhh No. If a PM loses the confidence of his party, or the majority of the house, he/she can face a vote of non confidence. Much quicker than an impeachment and a trial. 

 

But he/she doesn't....so all the scandals just glide on by....investigations smothered by partisan votes (e.g. SNC Lavalin).

 

 

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

I would think that this ought to be fairly obvious, but apparently not to Trumpists.

Where there is some evidence of a crime it ought to be investigated. There is NO evidence that Hunter Biden or Joe Biden did anything wrong.

I stopped reading right there Argus. Honest to f'ing god how can one family bring in $2B plus a company that they just placed an executive on the board rakes in over $1B more? Is that an average US family? One in a million?

When you figure in the net worth of the Bidens before Joe became influential in US politics, and then Vice-President, the chance of their family doing that much business was zero. If he didn't land that job, his family wouldn't be attracting that much business, period. The chances that influence peddling played the main role in that scenario is 99.9999%.

[Boges]

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Oh, because you already lost that argument.   Nazis !

Seems you've lost the argument because you can't cite other examples. If there were, I would think Trump's defenders in the GOP would be citing.

I cited Nazi's because you used it as an example of other governments interfering in US elections. Completely ignoring when Russia interfered with your country's last one. 

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But he/she doesn't....so all the scandals just glide on by....investigations smothered by partisan votes (e.g. SNC Lavalin).

SNC isn't a comparable example. If a PM lost the confidence of his party he could face a vote and a new election could be called. 

Ultimately the GOP would have a hand in removing Trump from office, the same as a comparable situation with a Canadian leader. 

[Boges]

Just now, WestCanMan said:

I stopped reading right there Argus. Honest to f'ing god how can one family bring in $2B plus a company that they just placed an executive on the board rakes in over $1B more? Is that an average US family? One in a million?

When you figure in the net worth of the Bidens before Joe became influential in US politics, and then Vice-President, the chance of their family doing that much business was zero. If he didn't land that job, his family wouldn't be attracting that much business, period. The chances that influence peddling played the main role in that scenario is 99.9999%.

So where's your evidence? 

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

You know, I actually try to pick sources that aren't traditional MSM just to try and blunt this Fake News BS.

But I guess that's a fool's errand, you'll discredit any source as Fake News. Good to know. 

It's not impossible that one day one of your longshots will pay off. If this was horse-racing you'd already be bankrupt, but there's no money at stake here so you can just stay in the game forever and keep throwing Hail Marys. I severely doubt there's anything to this but I just upped the % chance to 10% based on your latest info. Happy?

[WestCanMan]

2 minutes ago, Boges said:

So where's your evidence? 

Evidence of what? That the Bidens did all that business? Or that their previous net worth wasn't what you would expect from a family that's doing overseas business deals in the billions? 

[bush_cheney2004]

5 minutes ago, Boges said:

Seems you've lost the argument because you can't cite other examples. If there were, I would think Trump's defenders in the GOP would be citing.

I cited Nazi's because you used it as an example of other governments interfering in US elections. Completely ignoring when Russia interfered with your country's last one.

 

There are many examples, including the U.S. interfering in foreign elections (JFK famously in Canada).   It is not unusual or hard to find, long before Trump/Russia.

You asked for a cite and I provided a rock solid example for a celebrated Democrat (FDR) that you dismiss out of hand because NAZIS! were kicking Britain's ass.

Sorry, but you don't get to pick and choose relevancy to the topic of foreign interference in elections.

 

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SNC isn't a comparable example. If a PM lost the confidence of his party he could face a vote and a new election could be called. 

Ultimately the GOP would have a hand in removing Trump from office, the same as a comparable situation with a Canadian leader. 

 

Canadian voters will decide that in about two weeks...same as Trump in 2020.

[eyeball]

44 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Impeachment is not a criminal process...it is totally political, by design. Has nothing to do with "innocence".

That's not how it's spun to voters though.

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Joe Biden is a presidential candidate and will be subjected to opposition research, investigations, and dirty tricks, just like everybody else.

Nothing special about Joe Biden (presidential loser)....or Donald Trump (presidential winner).

 

Except that one's not facing impeachment and...you know.

Edited October 7, 2019 by eyeball

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, eyeball said:

That's not its spun to voters though.

 

Yes it is....talking heads remind U.S. voters of this any chance they get.    Impeachment is a political process with no criminal liability...just ask Bill Clinton.

 

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Except that one's not facing impeachment and...you know.

 

To face presidential impeachment one generally has to be the president.....Trump is....Biden has never been, despite several tries.

[eyeball]

4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Yes it is....talking heads remind U.S. voters of this any chance they get.    Impeachment is a political process with no criminal liability...just ask Bill Clinton.

The Orange One uses the word innocent when spinning tales about himself too.  It's the political liability that matters...just ask his supporters.  

 

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To face presidential impeachment one generally has to be the president.....Trump is....Biden has never been, despite several tries.

Providing even less of an excuse to let Trump off the impeachment process hook.

[bush_cheney2004]

10 minutes ago, eyeball said:

The Orange One uses the word innocent when spinning tales about himself too.  It's the political liability that matters...just ask his supporters. 

 

President Trump understands political spin better than most.  ["Orange One" is a violation of forum rules.]

That's why Trump is president, and Biden is not.

 

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Providing even less of an excuse to let Trump off the impeachment process hook.

 

If the Democrats want to impeach, go for it.   What has taken them so long to do it ?    Remember the Mueller Report ?    Krickets.....

Edited October 7, 2019 by bush_cheney2004

[Rue]

6 hours ago, Boges said:

It's what brutal dictators do. 

The only defence now is that Biden did it as VP, very isn't true at all, so Trump can do it. 

Trump can't even really deny that there wasn't any Quid Pro Quo with a straight face. 

The fact that Trump is calling anyone corrupt with his record is a joke. That is not the issue though. His abusing the powers of POTUS is not justified by the fact Biden is either a corrupt individual or ahole or whatever, There are appropriate laws for investigating corruption and the President is not allowed to use his office as a police agency against one individual and he and every American is well aware of that.

The US Constitution could not be any clearer on the limits of Presidential power. If its President won't honour those limits its up to Americans to decide what happens. In Germany no one minded Hitler throwing out the constitution. Trump is doing the same thing. He may have no gas chambers but he is going about it with very little difference than any tin pot dictator does when seizing power.