America under President Trump

[betsy]

9 hours ago, eyeball said:

Did it ever occur to you to consider the number of souls that condoms snuff?  I thought every sperm was precious.

By the sound of that, you could be a lot worse than Boges.  You don't understand when a life begins with a human.   And, it seems you don't understand when a human gets a soul.  And, you must be sleeping when your science teacher was explaining "fertilization."

 

From a Christian standpoint, a human gets a soul when his life begins.

 

A human's life begins at fertilization.

https://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html

 

Fertilization happens when the sperm cell meets with, and fertilizes the egg cell.  That occurs during a special event:  the sperm race.

  Aren't we lucky we've got youtube! 

 

  

 

HOWEVER........

The condom prevents that race from happening.  The buggers are blocked from entrance! 

 

With the entrance being blocked by the condom, there wouldn't be any sperm entering and meeting up with the egg cell.  Without that meeting, there wouldn't be any fertilization happening.  Without fertilization, there isn't going to be a human life created from it.   And without a human life beginning, there wouldn't be any soul, either.  Therefore.......there are no souls getting snuffed by the condom!

That's a real simple explanation, eyeball. 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2018 by betsy

[betsy]

13 hours ago, Boges said:

Trump invited this great Christian to the opening of the Embassy in Israel. 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/13/politics/hagee-jeffress-us-embassy-jerusalem/index.html

Slate’s Ruth Graham wrote Monday morning about Robert Jeffress, a prominent Dallas pastor who was invited to speak at the opening of the U.S.’ extremely controversial new embassy in Jerusalem despite having noted that he believes Jews will suffer for eternity in hell. Jeffress wasn’t the only evangelical figure in attendance the event, though—and in fact, he didn’t even have the hottest take on Judaism of the two who were there. Here’s CNN on San Antonio pastor John Hagee, the founder of Christians United for Israel, who delivered a benediction at the new embassy Monday:

Audio from one of Hagee’s sermons in the 1990s was leaked that seemed to suggest that Adolf Hitler had been fulfilling God’s will by aiding the desire of Jews to return to Israel in accordance with biblical prophecy.

“God says in Jeremiah 16: ‘Behold, I will bring them the Jewish people again unto their land that I gave to their fathers. … Behold, I will send for many fishers, and after will I send for many hunters,’” Hagee said, according to a transcript of his sermon. "’And they the hunters shall hunt them.’ That would be the Jews. … Then God sent a hunter. A hunter is someone who comes with a gun and he forces you. Hitler was a hunter.”

Hagee’s Hitler sermon became an issue after he endorsed John McCain during the 2008 presidential campaign; at the time, Hagee clarified that he had not meant to condone the Holocaust and that Hitler was a “monster.”

In any case, the U.S. opened an embassy in Jerusalem, triggering a massive outbreak of violence in the occupied territories, in part to satisfy a Texan extremist who thinks that doing so means we have now done our part in a process initiated by Hitler to fulfill biblical prophecy.

 

I don't know much about the others, but I can understand why Hagee's been invited.  Hagee's been a great supporter of Israel.

As for that so-called controversial comment - the Holocaust did result in Jews having their land back. 

 

Quote

 

Pastor Hagee is the founder of “A Night to Honor Israel” which is celebrated annually at Cornerstone Church over national and international television. “A Night to Honor Israel” is a non-conversionary tribute to the nation of Israel and the Jewish people of the world. Its purpose is to promote esteem and understanding between Christians and Jews and to emphasize that the beliefs we hold in common are far greater than the differences we have allowed to separate us. Pastor Hagee has been presented the ZOA Israel Award, the ZOA Service Award and the Humanitarian of the Year Award by B’Nai B’Rith Council in recognition of his unwavering support of Israel.

Pastor Hagee’s ministry has given millions of dollars to bring the Jewish exiles of the world home to Israel. The ministry has provided comfort and consolation to the Jewish people through the building of orphanage facilities, absorption centers and hospitals.

In February, 2006, Pastor John Hagee, Founder and National Chairman of Christians United for Israel, decided the time had come to create a national grassroots movement focused on the support of Israel. He called upon Christian leaders from across America to join him in launching this new initiative. Over 400 Christian leaders each representing a denomination, mega-church, media ministry, publishing company, or Christian university answered the call and Christians United for Israel was born.

 

https://www.cufi.org/impact/leadership/executive-board/pastor-john-hagee/

 

Anyway....the so-called process wasn't initiated by Hitler.  For Jews to come back - they had to leave their land first, right?  How do you come back if you hadn't left, or had been gone?   So, go back to history.    There must be reasons why Jews had left their land and are  scattered all over the world. 

Israel have had a turbulent relationship with God throughout the Old Testament.  They were warned at one point:

 

^{Deut 28}

⁶³ Just as it pleased the Lord to make you prosper and increase in number, so it will please him to ruin and destroy you. You will be uprooted from the land you are entering to possess.

⁶⁴ Then the Lord will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other. There you will worship other gods—gods of wood and stone, which neither you nor your ancestors have known. ⁶⁵ Among those nations you will find no repose, no resting place for the sole of your foot. There the Lord will give you an anxious mind, eyes weary with longing, and a despairing heart. ⁶⁶ You will live in constant suspense, filled with dread both night and day, never sure of your life.

 

But, that's between Israel and God.  Nevertheless, Israel will always be loved by God.

 

Romans 11

The Remnant of Israel

11 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin.

² God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: ³ “Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me”^[a]? ⁴ And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”^{[b] 5} So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. ⁶ And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

⁷ What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, ⁸ as it is written:

“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
    eyes that could not see
    and ears that could not hear,
to this very day.”^[c]

 

------------------------------

Hebrews 8

¹⁰ This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
    after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
    and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
    and they will be my people.

¹¹ No longer will they teach their neighbor,
    or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
    from the least of them to the greatest.
¹² For I will forgive their wickedness
    and will remember their sins no more.”^[c]

¹³ By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

 

 

 

 

 

Don't forget - Christians has the Messiah through Israel.  Our Saviour is a Jewish Saviour.

Standing with the nation of  Israel, is in the Scriptures.    The Abrahamic Covenant - the promise made by God to Abraham - stands:

 

Genesis 12

² “I will make you into a great nation,
    and I will bless you;
I will make your name great,
    and you will be a blessing.^[a]

³ I will bless those who bless you,
    and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
    will be blessed through you.

 

 

What's happening to Israel, is also in the Scriptures.  It's the fulfillment of the prophecy characterizing  the contentious relationship between the descendants of Isaac and Ishmael.  This conflict will not end until Jesus comes back to judge all nations. 

God will fulfill His covenant and plans for Israel.

 

Edited May 16, 2018 by betsy

[betsy]

With Jerusalem being formally acknowledged as Israel's capital, Trump's just fulfilled a promise to his Christian base.

 

Quote

Hagee's positive comments about Trump's decision echo those of other evangelical Christians, who hailed his announcement in December that the United States would now recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital.

It was a promise Trump repeatedly made to his conservative Christian base.

About 80% of white evangelicals (usually among the strongest American supporters of Israel), voted for Trump in 2016, according to exit polls.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/13/politics/hagee-jeffress-us-embassy-jerusalem/index.html

 

Edited May 16, 2018 by betsy

[GostHacked]

1 hour ago, betsy said:

I don't know much about the others, but I can understand why Hagee's been invited.  Hagee's been a great supporter of Israel.

As for that so-called controversial comment - the Holocaust did result in Jews having their land back.

 

100% Wrong.  The Balfour Declaration via the Zionist movement in Britain, 40 years BEFORE the holocaust is why they got 'their' land back.

[betsy]

3 hours ago, GostHacked said:

100% Wrong.  The Balfour Declaration via the Zionist movement in Britain, 40 years BEFORE the holocaust is why they got 'their' land back.

That planning had started 60 years before the Nazis.

 

 

Quote

The state of Israel was proclaimed by the Jewish leader, David Ben Gurion, on May 14, 1948, and officially came into being on the 15th, after British Mandatory rule ended at midnight. In many minds, the birth of Israel is closely identified with the Nazi terror in Europe and the Holocaust, but in fact the conception of and planning for a Jewish state had begun some 60 years earlier.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/events/israel_at_50/history/78597.stm

 

 

Quote

The establishment of the State of Israel would have been possible without the Holocaust due to the Zionist movement, however the reparations from the Holocaust given by West Germany gave Israel the resources necessary to survive. 

In this paper I will argue that the Holocaust played an important role in the founding and long term visibility of the State of Israel in three respects: The Holocaust motivated large numbers of immigrants to move to the new country, providing the necessary population; secondly, the Holocaust enabled Israel to pressure Germany into supplying the economic base necessary to build infrastructure and support those immigrants; and finally, the Holocaust swayed world opinion so that the United Nations approved the State of Israel in 1948.

http://www.history.ucsb.edu/projects/holocaust/Research/Proseminar/tomerkleinman.htm

Edited May 16, 2018 by betsy

[GostHacked]

5 hours ago, betsy said:

That planning had started 60 years before the Nazis.

Yes indeed, meaning the holocaust was NOT the reason (and if it is a reason, it's secondary) Israel exists today.  So I guess we can dispense with the notion that the holocaust was the reason for the creation of Israel.

[betsy]

3 hours ago, GostHacked said:

Yes indeed, meaning the holocaust was NOT the reason (and if it is a reason, it's secondary) Israel exists today.  So I guess we can dispense with the notion that the holocaust was the reason for the creation of Israel.

  The holocaust - and the plight of Jews during that time - did help make a Jewish State.  What was a plan became reality.  That state is called Israel.

 

Quote

Historians say Exodus 1947 helped unify the Jewish community of Palestine and the Holocaust-survivor refugees in Europe as well as significantly deepening international sympathy for the plight of Holocaust survivors and rallying support for the idea of a Jewish state.^[6][7] One called the story of the Exodus 1947 a "spectacular publicity coup for the Zionists."

 

Final destination

A telegram written by Jewish leaders of the camps on 20 October 1947 makes clear the wishes and determination of the refugees to find a home in Palestine:

 

Historical importance

The United Nations Special Committee on Palestine also covered the events. Some of its members were even present at Haifa port when the emigrants were removed from their ship onto the deportation ships and later commented that this strong image helped them press for an immediate solution for Jewish immigration and the question of Palestine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Exodus

 

Quote

Postwar Refugee Crisis and the Establishment of the State of Israel

 

The internment of Jewish refugees—many of them Holocaust survivors—turned world opinion against British policy in Palestine. The report of the Anglo-American Commission of Inquiry in January 1946 led US president Harry Truman to pressure Britain into admitting 100,000 Jewish refugees into Palestine.

As the crisis escalated, the British government decided to submit the problem of Palestine to the United Nations (UN). In a special session, the UN General Assembly voted on November 29, 1947, to partition Palestine into two new states, one Jewish and the other Arab, a recommendation that Jewish leaders accepted and the Arabs rejected.

After the British began the withdrawal of their military forces from Palestine in early April 1948, Zionist leaders moved to establish a modern Jewish state.

On May 14, 1948, David Ben-Gurion, the chairman of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, announced the formation of the state of Israel, declaring, "The Nazi Holocaust, which engulfed millions of Jews in Europe, proved anew the urgency of the reestablishment of the Jewish State, which would solve the problem of Jewish homelessness by opening the gates to all Jews and lifting the Jewish people to equality in the family of nations."

 

https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005459

Edited May 17, 2018 by betsy

[GostHacked]

11 hours ago, betsy said:

  The holocaust - and the plight of Jews during that time - did help make a Jewish State.  What was a plan became reality.  That state is called Israel.

The reality was there before, as Jews were buying up land before they decided to make a nation.So the intention was ALWAYS to make a new Israel, regardless of the holocaust.  That's just a fact.

[betsy]

21 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

The reality was there before, as Jews were buying up land before they decided to make a nation.So the intention was ALWAYS to make a new Israel, regardless of the holocaust.  That's just a fact.

Yes, the intention was there.  I'm not saying it wasn't there.  But an intention is quite different from having it happen!  Buying up land does not necessarily make a nation, or a state.

 

How long ago has that plan been hatched?  60 years! 

After 60 years of planning.........the holocaust had made that intention to finally happen! Thus, there is now a state called Israel!  And, a powerful state to boot.

 

Edited May 17, 2018 by betsy

[GostHacked]

On 5/17/2018 at 8:34 AM, betsy said:

Yes, the intention was there.  I'm not saying it wasn't there.  But an intention is quite different from having it happen!  Buying up land does not necessarily make a nation, or a state.

You think it happens overnight?  However the Jews DID buy land and DID make a nation. They used the holocaust as an excuse to claim victimhood while driving out the locals to create Israel. And now they occupy land and people and keep them in an open air prison. I am sure even Hitler would be confused about that irony.  And you bible thumpers have evidence in your own bible regarding the notion that Israel would exist again.

On 5/17/2018 at 8:34 AM, betsy said:

 

How long ago has that plan been hatched?  60 years! 

After 60 years of planning.........the holocaust had made that intention to finally happen! Thus, there is now a state called Israel!  And, a powerful state to boot.

 

Right, 60 years of planning is what made Israel, not the holocaust. I think we are getting off topic now. Trump moved the embassy to Jerusalem, and we see that the US supports Israel in many ways. Israel is concerned about Iran having one nuke, while Israel has a fairly large stash of their own nuclear weapons.  I am starting to think the Jews are very hypocritical. Sorry, I must clarify and say Isreali's are very hypocritical.

[Kerfuffle]

On 5/16/2018 at 5:58 AM, betsy said:

By the sound of that, you could be a lot worse than Boges.  You don't understand when a life begins with a human.   And, it seems you don't understand when a human gets a soul.  And, you must be sleeping when your science teacher was explaining "fertilization."

 

From a Christian standpoint, a human gets a soul when his life begins.

 

A human's life begins at fertilization.

https://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html

 

Fertilization happens when the sperm cell meets with, and fertilizes the egg cell.  That occurs during a special event:  the sperm race.

  Aren't we lucky we've got youtube! 

 

  

 

HOWEVER........

The condom prevents that race from happening.  The buggers are blocked from entrance! 

 

With the entrance being blocked by the condom, there wouldn't be any sperm entering and meeting up with the egg cell.  Without that meeting, there wouldn't be any fertilization happening.  Without fertilization, there isn't going to be a human life created from it.   And without a human life beginning, there wouldn't be any soul, either.  Therefore.......there are no souls getting snuffed by the condom!

That's a real simple explanation, eyeball. 

 

 

Wack job....to bad most your dads sperm ran down your moms leg or you might of had a chance of having a healthy sperm fertilize you.....

Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it.

 

Edited May 18, 2018 by Kerfuffle

[Kerfuffle]

On 5/16/2018 at 5:58 AM, betsy said:

By the sound of that, you could be a lot worse than Boges.  You don't understand when a life begins with a human.   And, it seems you don't understand when a human gets a soul.  And, you must be sleeping when your science teacher was explaining "fertilization."

 

From a Christian standpoint, a human gets a soul when his life begins.

 

A human's life begins at fertilization.

https://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html

 

Fertilization happens when the sperm cell meets with, and fertilizes the egg cell.  That occurs during a special event:  the sperm race.

  Aren't we lucky we've got youtube! 

 

  

 

HOWEVER........

The condom prevents that race from happening.  The buggers are blocked from entrance! 

 

With the entrance being blocked by the condom, there wouldn't be any sperm entering and meeting up with the egg cell.  Without that meeting, there wouldn't be any fertilization happening.  Without fertilization, there isn't going to be a human life created from it.   And without a human life beginning, there wouldn't be any soul, either.  Therefore.......there are no souls getting snuffed by the condom!

That's a real simple explanation, eyeball. 

Jesus by religious accounts was never fertilized....no sperm entered Mary's womb.....so he must not of had a soul......as your fairy tale states....From a Christian standpoint, a human gets a soul when his life begins. and A human's life begins at fertilization.

 

What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

 

Edited May 18, 2018 by Kerfuffle

[Kerfuffle]

On 5/16/2018 at 6:21 AM, betsy said:

I don't know much about the others, but I can understand why Hagee's been invited.  Hagee's been a great supporter of Israel.

As for that so-called controversial comment - the Holocaust did result in Jews having their land back. 

Do you believe that the Jews should have their land back....does the same hold true for native Americans......

 

What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Kerfuffle

[betsy]

3 hours ago, GostHacked said:

You think it happens overnight?  However the Jews DID buy land and DID make a nation. They used the holocaust as an excuse to claim victimhood ........

Whether they used the holocaust or not to claim victimhood, isn't the issue.    We're debating about the State of Israel being the cause of the Holocaust.

My sources indicate that the holocaust did help create the State of Israel. 

 

The rest of your tirade is irrelevant.

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2018 by betsy

[betsy]

59 minutes ago, Kerfuffle said:

Wack job....to bad most your dads sperm ran down your moms leg or you might of had a chance of having a healthy sperm fertilize you.....

Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it.

 

That's science.

[betsy]

10 minutes ago, Kerfuffle said:

Do you believe that the Jews should have their land back....does the same hold true for native Americans......

 

What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

They're not comparable.  

Jews legally purchased those lands.

 

Quote

Jewish land purchase in Palestine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_land_purchase_in_Palestine

[Kerfuffle]

13 minutes ago, betsy said:

Whether they used the holocaust or not to claim victimhood, isn't the issue.    We're debating about the State of Israel being the cause of the Holocaust.

My sources indicate that the holocaust did help create the State of Israel. 

 

The rest of your tirade is irrelevant.

 

 

 

What is irrelevant is you endless use of cut and pastes from your fairy tale beliefs.....none of which have any factual proof....they are just writings in your book of faith and faith is not scientifically proof.....reading your propaganda cut and pastes is becoming very annoying.....does the tooth fairy still leave a coin under your pillow when you lose a tooth.....does Samta come down your chimney......does the Easter bunny leave chocolate Easter eggs....do we get 6 more weeks of winter ihe sees his shadow when he rolls the rock out of the way....Time to grow up....

[betsy]

57 minutes ago, Kerfuffle said:

Jesus by religious accounts was never fertilized....no sperm entered Mary's womb.....so he must not of had a soul......as your fairy tale states....From a Christian standpoint, a human gets a soul when his life begins. and A human's life begins at fertilization.

 

What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

 

That can be discussed in Religion.  Create a thread for it.

[betsy]

3 minutes ago, Kerfuffle said:

What is irrelevant is you endless use of cut and pastes from your fairy tale beliefs.....none of which have any factual proof....they are just writings in your book of faith and faith is not scientifically proof.....reading your propaganda cut and pastes is becoming very annoying.....does the tooth fairy still leave a coin under your pillow when you lose a tooth.....does Samta come down your chimney......does the Easter bunny leave chocolate Easter eggs....do we get 6 more weeks of winter ihe sees his shadow when he rolls the rock out of the way....Time to grow up....

Whatever.

 

And....disregard my suggestion about creating a thread. 

Bye.  Looks like you're another waste of time.

Edited May 18, 2018 by betsy

[Michael Hardner]

Kim Jung In makes Trump fold on the demand to remove war exercises.

Winning ?

I am starting to wonder about the art of this deal.

http://www.newsweek.com/kim-jong-un-beefs-military-north-korea-us-summit-hangs-balance-932990

[Kerfuffle]

7 minutes ago, betsy said:

Whatever.

 

And....disregard my suggestion about creating a thread. 

Bye.  Looks like you're another waste of time.

The real waste of time is reading your useless biblical quotes that have no real meaning 

[OftenWrong]

15 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Kim Jung In makes Trump fold on the demand to remove war exercises.

Winning ?

I am starting to wonder about the art of this deal.

http://www.newsweek.com/kim-jong-un-beefs-military-north-korea-us-summit-hangs-balance-932990

I don't know many details about a "deal" other than they might have a summit, to discuss presumably, improvements in US/ NK relations. So let's have a look at your link.

Title:
U.S. AGREES TO SCRAP PART OF MILITARY EXERCISE THAT INFURIATED NORTH KOREA

Only part of it? Sounds like a compromise to me. The media is now portraying it as a "huge concession", which is good in a way, if Kim Jong Un buys into that.

More about this story today:

South Korean leaders didn’t want to ruin the prospects of a Trump-Kim summit by taking part in the air exercise, especially because it involved the B-52 bombers, and asked the US if South Korean could bow out. The Trump administration agreed, and decided to run the drill with just Japan and completely outside of South Korean airspace — even though the original plan was for the bombers to minimally enter it. This is quite a concession to North Korea.

[betsy]

The last time I heard, Kim is asking for 10 restaurant workers in South Korea to be sent back to NK.   Don't know the details about those workers.

Trump and a lot of people have been skeptical about Kim Jong even when NK started talking with SK.  But, one can't  shut down a possibility for talks just simply because of skepticism.  What more when Kim showed "good faith" by releasing prisoners?

Edited May 20, 2018 by betsy

[GostHacked]

On 5/18/2018 at 4:05 PM, betsy said:

Whether they used the holocaust or not to claim victimhood, isn't the issue.    We're debating about the State of Israel being the cause of the Holocaust.

Oh hell yes it is the issue, you stated as such in previous posts.

They used the holocaust as a main reason for the creation if Israel, it's a fact that they did use that reason, but it's a bullshit reason.  And your second sentence should read " We're debading about the State of Isreal existing BECAUSE of the holocaust.   If you are going to push back, at least make sense and read before you post, or you end up looking stupid.

On 5/18/2018 at 4:05 PM, betsy said:

My sources indicate that the holocaust did help create the State of Israel. 

That's EXACTLY what I said, and now you are agreeing with me.

 

[betsy]

16 hours ago, GostHacked said:

Oh hell yes it is the issue, you stated as such in previous posts.

They used the holocaust as a main reason for the creation if Israel, it's a fact that they did use that reason, but it's a bullshit reason.  And your second sentence should read " We're debading about the State of Isreal existing BECAUSE of the holocaust.   If you are going to push back, at least make sense and read before you post, or you end up looking stupid.

That's EXACTLY what I said, and now you are agreeing with me.

 

Excuse me, but you're the one who isn't making any sense.  You're arguing for nothing.

 

I don't care if you think having used the holocaust is a bullshit reason.  That's not the point.

 

The State of Israel has finally existed because of the holocaust!   Imagine.....they've been planning to have a nation for 60 years.  They've been buying up land since the time of the ottoman......and yet, did we see any state of Israel?   What was  decades of merely planning, got fast-tracked because of the Holocaust! 

 

 

Quote

it's a fact that they did use that reason, but it's a bullshit reason. 

 

Anyway, you admit it's a fact they did use the Holocaust.   Therefore, you're saying the Holocaust was the reason.  It's a fact!  That's, the point.

 

You're now saying the same thing that I'm saying.  Case closed. 

Edited May 21, 2018 by betsy