America under President Trump

[BeaverFever]

30 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Wars that were both entirely 'civilized' compared to the barbaric slaughter that occurred in Syria and Iraq, and one is still going on.

There's literally no comparison whatsoever between '08 and '16. Islamic state was the ugliest blight on humanity since the 40's/50's.

Ok maybe I need to get some sock puppets to help explain this because you’re clearly not getting it. If Bush had never needlessly invaded Iraq there would never have been an ISIS in the first place. Get it?

 

Bush said in 2003 the troops would be home in a few months, with minimal US casualties minimal civilian casualties, but when he left office six years later the troops were still there dying daily, over a million civilians killed or displaced, no victory in sight so by any definition the war is already a disaster and colossal f-up before Obama has even been sworn into office.   Get it?

The justifications for the invasion - Saddams alleged WMD and Al-Qaeda links - were all Republican fabrications so this disaster was not just completely avoidable but a massive fraud, perhaps the worst of our times. Get it?

 

Bush’s fraudulent invasion created AlQaeda in Iraq which morphed into ISIS. The founder of ISIS was even a prisoner of US forces under Bush but was released for some unknown reason. When you’re the person who sets the house on fire you don’t get to criticize the people trying to put out the fire.  Get it?

As to whether things in ‘08 were better or worse than ‘16 probably depends on where you were. If you were in ISIS territory, sure it’s worse. But the reverse can be true elsewhere.   But again the whole shitshow was started by Republicans anyway

The terrorism not coincidentally began to subside with US withdrawal from Iraqi occupation and went away almost entirely with the defeat of ISIS. Sure wasn’t anything Trump did.
 

And neither BLM or Antifa have committed terrorism but you conveniently gloss over all the right wing ACTUAL terrorists who have come out of the woodwork since Trump came along haven’t you?  Just recently a plot to kidnap the governor of Michigan for example. 

50 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Just look at all the terrorist attacks that happened in America when Obama was POTUS. It's almost eerily quiet now by comparison. The only terrorists that are active in the US now are the ones that are endorsed by the Democrat party - Antifa and BLM. 

[BeaverFever]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

Obama gets an enormous F on the domestic relations front. He inherited an America that was focused on sports and entertainment in it's spare time. 2015 America was watching the news and everyone was bitching at anyone and everyone else. The country was completely divided among racial and political lines to an extent that I have never experienced in my lifetime, and I'm over 50.

I don't remember Ford's presidency, but Jimmy Carter's America wasn't characterized by racial disharmony and hatred of police. Ditto for Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush. Between 2008 and 2016 America dialled back race relations to 1870. 

In 2017 things were getting back to normal and by 2019 racial disharmony was becoming a distant memory. Even the Dems had stopped calling for incivility against the Republican government. Then in 2020 the carefully edited G Floyd incident helped the Obamas to divide the country again.

What a ridiculously ignorant and revisionist telling of history. Apparently the Black Panthers and KKK never existed before Obama, there was never a song called F Tha Police written in the 80s, The Rodney King beating and LA riots never happened. I guess the Civil Rights movement never happened either. Oh and the George Floyd footage is “carefully edited “ by some shadowy forces.

Racial tension is part of America’s DNA. Slavery and segregation cover most of the country’s history  Nothing dialled back in 2017 you’re delusional  

America was never politically divided before Obama?  Nobody was yelling on TV before Obama? If you believe that then you really weren’t paying attention before they let a Black man in the White House 

[BeaverFever]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

LMAO. You're still at the very steep end of the learning curve re: the Russian collusion investigation. I can't even be bothered getting you to square 1.

Lol. Not even CNN is spewing your drivel, and up 'til now I thought that they were the worst. You're next-level crazy.

This Post is just empty insults, I assume because you know you have nothing of value to add here 

[BeaverFever]

1 hour ago, Infidel Dog said:

Obama's DoD guy has an opinion "The shoot down was not the result of a baited ambush."

I've heard other opinions. But I'm not sure that matters because as far as the credibility of Biden as leader goes this remains a fact:

https://www.independentsentinel.com/flashback-joe-biden-revealed-navy-seal-team-six-killed-osama-bin-laden/

This is the  official finding, not just some “opinion” and it’s not from“Obama’s DOD guy”
 

The “opinions” that “you’ve heard” are garbage.

That’s always been the thing with you Fiddle, you claim everything in this world is a matter of opinion and all opinions have equal authority  so you think people just pick whichever opinions suit them and claim those to be “the actual facts” and everything else is part of some sinister global conspiracy. That’s not how the real world works and not how truly intelligent people process information. 

[BeaverFever]

56 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Making allegations is easy, whether it be Biden or Trump.   If Biden wants to play this game, then he has to take the heat as well, and that includes Hunter Biden.

It is October, and that means October surprises.

So then you agree, WestCans statement that Trump is the only one to have not committed a crime is false. Either they both have (if unproven accusations alone count)or neither has. Correct?

 

58 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Anybody else reading my post knows exactly what I am referring to.   You can ignore the obvious if you wish.

The WE scandal allegations made against Trudeau alleged wrongdoing, but were not alleging the funnelling of money to his family members   Get the facts of the accusations straight. 

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

So then you agree, WestCans statement that Trump is the only one to have not committed a crime is false. Either they both have (if unproven accusations alone count)or neither has. Correct?

 

Neither have been convicted of a crime in this context.   However, both have been accused of doing so.

This is par for the course.

 

Quote

The WE scandal allegations made against Trudeau alleged wrongdoing, but were not alleging the funnelling of money to his family members   Get the facts of the accusations straight. 

 

Nevertheless, money was funneled to Trudeau family members through the organization.   I believe this is called "bad optics" by some in Canada, but it is perfectly normal for Liberal Party.

[BeaverFever]

39 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

1) ...... “under the VP/POTUS Seal”.

IE, Trump didn’t use the WH as a tool to line his own pockets.

2) There was at least one occasion where Trudeau asked We to hold a ‘charitable event’, gave them over $1M taxpayer dollars, and his mom ended up speaking.

That’s $CDN—>We—>Margaret Trudeau. 

1) Trump is accused of lining his pockets. If unproven accusations don’t count then why are you making unproven accusations against Biden and Trudeau?
 

2) What “charitable event“?  Details please  

 

 

[BeaverFever]

5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Nevertheless, money was funneled to Trudeau family members through the organization.   I believe this is called "bad optics" by some in Canada, but it is perfectly normal for Liberal Party.

My understanding of this scandal is that Liberals appear to be giving a contract to an insider and optics seem like they’re  possibly rewarding those who have had Lucrative private dealings with them in the PAST. 
 

I still have yet to see any credible claim that money went from WE to Trudeaus AFTER WE received money from the Trudeau government. 

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

My understanding of this scandal is that Liberals appear to be giving a contract to an insider and optics seem like they’re  possibly rewarding those who have had Lucrative private dealings with them in the PAST. 
 

I still have yet to see any credible claim that money went from WE to Trudeaus AFTER WE received money from the Trudeau government. 

 

Well, unlike in the United States, Trudeau was able to shut down opposition investigation(s) and actions by Parliament to determine what actually happened.  

Trump has faced a continuing gauntlet of federal and state allegations, investigations, even impeachment... only to prevail each time.

[BeaverFever]

6 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Well, unlike in the United States, Trudeau was able to shut down opposition investigation(s) and actions by Parliament to determine what actually happened.  

Trump has faced a continuing gauntlet of federal and state allegations, investigations, even impeachment... only to prevail each time.

Trump fired not one but two attorneys general plus several of the FBI before he finally found an AG that was willing to claim that a sitting president cannot be indicted for obstructing an investigation into his own wrongdoings. That’s not exactly being exonerated. Not by a long shot. 

His emoluments case was similarly dismisses on a technicality of jurisdiction not on the merits of the accusations. 

And the Republican senate let him off the impeachment for partisan reasons 

[bush_cheney2004]

6 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Trump fired not one but two attorneys general plus several of the FBI before he finally found an AG that was willing to claim that a sitting president cannot be indicted for obstructing an investigation into his own wrongdoings. That’s not exactly being exonerated. Not by a long shot.

 

Exoneration is not a legal or civil determination...Trump's enemies have used this tactic when faced with failed court and committee efforts.  

 

Quote

His emoluments case was similarly dismisses on a technicality of jurisdiction not on the merits of the accusations. 

And the Republican senate let him off the impeachment for partisan reasons 

 

Nevertheless, Trump had to face the music whereas Trudeau easily avoided it.    Trump was impeached...he was not "let off".

[Cannucklehead]

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/america-votes/the-legal-reckoning-trump-could-face-if-he-loses-the-election-1.5149815

 

Sounds to me like he has only gotten through the overture so far.  

[Infidel Dog]

3 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

This is the  official finding, not just some “opinion” and it’s not from“Obama’s DOD guy”

The “opinions” that “you’ve heard” are garbage.

That’s always been the thing with you Fiddle, you claim everything in this world is a matter of opinion and all opinions have equal authority  so you think people just pick whichever opinions suit them and claim those to be “the actual facts” and everything else is part of some sinister global conspiracy.

Well thanks for your opinion on that, Beave.

I'm sure it means a lot to you. Not so much to me but thanks anyway.

The investigating officer during the Obama years who did the report on the helicopter crash offered an  opinion based on the evidence of what happened during the attack. It led him to believe the attack wasn't planned.

I'm not sure it matters. That's my opinion.

Because as long as we're talking about what we know the other person does Beave, I think it's well established what your MO is. It's to divert. I  can't believe you're still trying to get away with it, with me.

Here you're diverting from the main point which had to do with incidents where Biden didn't show a lot of empathy.

He did a dumb thing. He leaked,  through his big, flapping mouth the identity of the unit that took out Bin Laden. It was restricted information.

That's not an opinion. That's a fact. It's on video:

The families of the downed helicopter were pissed. They saw it as Biden targeting their sons or husbands. Biden didn't show them a lot of empathy or he wouldn't have done such a stupid thing in the first place but when he did he at least owed them an apology. Empathy should have at least instilled a little guilt.

[Cannucklehead]

The only name he gives is of an admiral, something anyone with internet can easily find out for themselves.  

https://www.navy.mil/Leadership/Biographies/

 

Wow I'm amazing.  Secret black op stuff!  

James F Geurts seriously needs to work on his smile.  

Edited October 18, 2020 by Cannucklehead

[BeaverFever]

4 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

Because as long as we're talking about what we know the other person does Beave, I think it's well established what your MO is. It's to divert. I  can't believe you're still trying to get away with it, with me.

Here you're diverting from the main point which had to do with incidents where Biden didn't show a lot of empathy.

Nope you’re confused again.  You were talking about empathy with someone else, not me. I’m just correcting your ridiculous lie about the SEALS. It’s not “restricted information” to name the forces as  SEALTeam Six nor is it new information. Saying the Special Forces were from Seal Team Six is like saying the aircraft carriers are from the navy or B2 Bombers are from the Air  Force. Then the ridiculous right wing lie went on and exaggerated to say he secretly leaked their names so that terrorists could target their families   Not to mention the whole notion that AlQaeda never would have attacked any US troops beyond retarded. 
 

Youve been provided the official report from tue only people qualified to know  what actually happened and speak to the subject. It proves tour theory crap. It is not some opinion that is equally valid with your crackpot  partisan conspiracy theories from people who are jot qualifies to know anything about  the subject  

[bush_cheney2004]

7 hours ago, Cannucklehead said:

Sounds to me like he has only gotten through the overture so far.  

 

That's OK...Bill Clinton wasn't prosecuted for perjury or obstruction either.   He was only fined and disbarred.

[WestCanMan]

12 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Ok maybe I need to get some sock puppets to help explain this because you’re clearly not getting it. If Bush had never needlessly invaded Iraq there would never have been an ISIS in the first place. Get it?

 

Bush said in 2003 the troops would be home in a few months, with minimal US casualties minimal civilian casualties, but when he left office six years later the troops were still there dying daily, over a million civilians killed or displaced, no victory in sight so by any definition the war is already a disaster and colossal f-up before Obama has even been sworn into office.   Get it?

The justifications for the invasion - Saddams alleged WMD and Al-Qaeda links - were all Republican fabrications so this disaster was not just completely avoidable but a massive fraud, perhaps the worst of our times. Get it?

 

Bush’s fraudulent invasion created AlQaeda in Iraq which morphed into ISIS. The founder of ISIS was even a prisoner of US forces under Bush but was released for some unknown reason. When you’re the person who sets the house on fire you don’t get to criticize the people trying to put out the fire.  Get it?

As to whether things in ‘08 were better or worse than ‘16 probably depends on where you were. If you were in ISIS territory, sure it’s worse. But the reverse can be true elsewhere.   But again the whole shitshow was started by Republicans anyway

The terrorism not coincidentally began to subside with US withdrawal from Iraqi occupation and went away almost entirely with the defeat of ISIS. Sure wasn’t anything Trump did.

Regardless of your dislike of Dubya, the rise of islamic state is all on Obama's shoulders.

Iraq was on a trajectory, and a massive genocide wasn't part of it in 2008. No one said that an instant pullout, while leaving a pile of weapons behind, was the way to go. Obama was the one who left a power vacuum in Iraq and then dismissed islamic state as a Jr Varsity terrorist squad.

Syria wasn't on course for a genocide or massive widespread destruction in 2008, at all.

You seem to think that Obama was powerless to right the ship, but Trump inherited a mess that was orders of magnitude larger than Obama was handed, and Trump tidied up like Martha Stewart.

Quote

And neither BLM or Antifa have committed terrorism but you conveniently gloss over all the right wing ACTUAL terrorists who have come out of the woodwork since Trump came along haven’t you?  Just recently a plot to kidnap the governor of Michigan for example. 

Killing police officers as a political statement meets the exact definition of a terrorist attack beaver. You have access to a dictionary online, maybe you should use that before you shove your foot in your mouth next time.

FYI you just don't call it terrorism because you approve of it. No one calls their own side 'terrorists'. They use words like martyrs or heroes or activists. 

[WestCanMan]

12 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

What a ridiculously ignorant and revisionist telling of history. Apparently the Black Panthers and KKK never existed before Obama, there was never a song called F Tha Police written in the 80s, The Rodney King beating and LA riots never happened. I guess the Civil Rights movement never happened either. 

Racial tension is part of America’s DNA. Slavery and segregation cover most of the country’s history  Nothing dialled back in 2017 you’re delusional  

America was never politically divided before Obama?  Nobody was yelling on TV before Obama? If you believe that then you really weren’t paying attention before they let a Black man in the White House 

What a ridiculously ignorant and revisionist telling of history beaver.

Just because groups existed doesn't mean that they were at the forefront of daily life. There weren't riots all across America during that span of time. There were communists in America that whole time too, but somehow the US was part of NATO.  

 

Quote

Oh and the George Floyd footage is “carefully edited “ by some shadowy forces.

Not shadowy forces. Dem AG Keith Ellison knew that the police body cam footage was highly damaging to the GFloyd riots, and he kept it under lock and key for months while America burned. It just got out because it was leaked in Britain, or we still wouldn't have seen it. 

[CampMassad]

16 more days until this nightmare ends.

[bush_cheney2004]

9 minutes ago, CampMassad said:

16 more days until this nightmare ends.

 

Nope...next prez term doesn't begin until January 21, 2021.

[WestCanMan]

12 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

This Post is just empty insults, I assume because you know you have nothing of value to add here 

I get that you feel that way because you don't have all the info, but it's not my fault that you choose to remain ignorant.

FYI there was no crime committed, there was nothing to obstruct, and the Trump team allowed themselves to be subjected to hundreds of interrogations and they submitted millions of pages of documents. Plus they were spied on.

They were more than accommodating, especially when the whole RC farce was just the Dems' third instance of cheating during the 2016 election (3rd proven instance, there were probably many more). 

[CampMassad]

7 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Nope...next prez term doesn't begin until January 21, 2021.

I am aware of that. The World will feel great relief at a Trump loss. TBH, I can see Trump use a scorched Earth policy, and try and sabotage things for Biden, but I have faith that the GOP will break ranks with the President, and block him from carrying out anything unscrupulous. 

[Argus]

12 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

1) ...... “under the VP/POTUS Seal”.

IE, Trump didn’t use the WH as a tool to line his own pockets.

Please. Do tell us why Trump unexpectedly lifted the sanctions on ZTE against the advise of his own government, will you?

[Argus]

8 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I get that you feel that way because you don't have all the info, but it's not my fault that you choose to remain ignorant.

FYI there was no crime committed, there was nothing to obstruct, and the Trump team allowed themselves to be subjected to hundreds of interrogations and they submitted millions of pages of documents. Plus they were spied on.

The Star Investigation lasted the entire four years of Clinton's first term and ranged far and wide into anything the Republicans thought might damage Clinton, issuing nearly weekly subpoenas.  That included demanding interviews with Clinton himself.  Ken Star himself never even pretended the investigation was in any way unbiased or neutral. He was a lifelong Republican out to get Clinton, appointed by a Republican congress.

Edited October 18, 2020 by Argus

[bush_cheney2004]

5 minutes ago, CampMassad said:

I am aware of that. The World will feel great relief at a Trump loss. TBH, I can see Trump use a scorched Earth policy, and try and sabotage things for Biden, but I have faith that the GOP will break ranks with the President, and block him from carrying out anything unscrupulous. 

 

Trump will still have a lasting impact (e.g. 3 U.S. Supreme Court justices ), and the GOP will help him do it.

The "World" has no say in the matter.

Edited October 18, 2020 by bush_cheney2004