Fort McMurray wildfire

[Boges]

hey now! Latest days old polling results from Forum research has the Liberals at 52%... that's superMajority territory! When's the honeymoon over, hey?

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When the opposition parties both have permanent leaders perhaps.

[waldo]

When the opposition parties both have permanent leaders perhaps.

you should take that angle and run with it in the 'leaders prediction' thread! But good on ya for acknowledging the lame azzed efforts/results from Rona/Thomas! No need to reply as that would be thread drift/derail.

note: thread drift/derail avoidance notification was made... and ignored! I can only do so much here...

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Edited May 18, 2016 by waldo

[Boges]

you should take that angle and run with it in the 'leaders prediction' thread! But good on ya for acknowledging the lame azzed efforts/results from Rona/Thomas! No need to reply as that would be thread drift/derail.

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I suspect any leader the CPC pick would not meet your "high" standard as a capable leader to fight the Selfie PM. Just a hunch.

Even if Rona was a great leader, the average voter probably doesn't care because she won't be the one fighting the next election.

[Topaz]

I can't see how ANY PM or Premier can be blamed for these fires except how they handle the situation and Justin has said he would give any help needed to Alberta. Again, how did these fires start? If it was by lightning, then there is no ? there but IF MAN did it because of the financial reasons for themselves or against the country and IF we are about to go into another recession what affect will these fires have?

[Smallc]

How so? Did the Manitoba fires threaten a major economic resource?

The Manitoba fire had about 5 water bombers from Manitoba and Ontatio fighting it, so the airspace was not saturated as in Fort McMurray. The fire on the ground was moving slower so crews coins actually fight it from the ground. It was also less dry with different trees.

It's also worth noting that the help came automatically because of a previous agreement involving Ontario, Manitoba, and Minnesota.

[Smallc]

What lasts longer? The wildfire or Justin as PM? Right now I think it's probably 50/50. Wildfires can burn for a pretty long time.

It's hard living in a bubble?

[Guest]

Somebody hasn't been doing their job...

http://globalnews.ca/news/2706781/fort-mcmurray-wildfire-alberta-agency-tasked-with-preventing-wildfires-leaves-millions-unspent/

[bush_cheney2004]

Somebody hasn't been doing their job...

http://globalnews.ca/news/2706781/fort-mcmurray-wildfire-alberta-agency-tasked-with-preventing-wildfires-leaves-millions-unspent/

Nice....looks like the "FireSmart" program should be renamed "FireStupid". "Two kilometer buffer zone"....DUH !!!

[waldo]

Nice....looks like the "FireSmart" program should be renamed "FireStupid". "Two kilometer buffer zone"....DUH !!!

reference highlighted is to past years under Conservative governments... oh wait, there is a tally for 2016 up to March... apparently, there's still unspent monies after 3 months!!! As the reference highlights, the onus is on/should be on, local communities to bring forward eligible proposals - government's can't write them for the communities, hey!

as for your "DUH", why that's the exact approach taken by the owners/operators of the tarsands plants themselves - cut surrounding trees/vegetation to provide that buffer zone - is there a problem? It appears, so far, the plants haven't been touched (save, a housing complex for workers).

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[The_Squid]

Armchair firefighting experts: Please provide some real expertise about how the fire should be fought differently from actual experts. Your own expertise adds up to nada.

[waldo]

Armchair firefighting experts: Please provide some real expertise about how the fire should be fought differently from actual experts. Your own expertise adds up to nada.

coupled with 'Captain Hindsight'!

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[Boges]

Armchair firefighting experts: Please provide some real expertise about how the fire should be fought differently from actual experts. Your own expertise adds up to nada.

Not that I'm a fan of the police, but don't they always receive critiques of their actions under pressure from the safety of hindsight too?

[The_Squid]

Not that I'm a fan of the police, but don't they always receive critiques of their actions under pressure from the safety of hindsight too?

ummm... hindsight usually takes place afterwards.... the fire still rages, it's still being fought... what expert report has looked at the Fort Mac fire?

[The_Squid]

Yes. The wildfire has spread out across ALL of Canada! The entire area of the country. Great argument.

Why haven't I been evacuated??? Man that Trudeau is an asshole!!

[bush_cheney2004]

Money spent on prevention and buffer zones is better than heroic fire fighting after the fact.

[waldo]

Not that I'm a fan of the police, but don't they always receive critiques of their actions under pressure from the safety of hindsight too?

hindsight has its own pitfalls, particularly bias related. Now, I thought to expand on that bias fact given the extent of hindsight arm-chairing experts in this thread... why I even sourced a study abstract, properly linked it and quoted from it's abstract. Imagine my surprise when I see, without receiving any notification, my post has been hidden - imagine that!

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[overthere]

Money spent on prevention and buffer zones is better than heroic fire fighting after the fact.

True , but I think many people have no concept of the scope of a fire like this and the speed at which it travels. The money spent earlier may have little impact on 'after the fact'. Ever see a fire that is 'crowning', jumping from treetop to treetop? Terrifying.

Whistler BC is rumoured to be working hard on cutting a buffer zone around the town to protect it. from wildfires. They expect it to take 20 years or so to complete. And of course it will never be complete, in 20 years they will find they have to start over again with young growth. Clearing brush helps, on the other hand it may not matter at all, since for example the FM fire easily jumped a river at least a km wide. It must have also jumped the Clearwater river valley too.

[bush_cheney2004]

True , but I think many people have no concept of the scope of a fire like this and the speed at which it travels. The money spent earlier may have little impact on 'after the fact'. Ever see a fire that is 'crowning', jumping from treetop to treetop? Terrifying.

Yes I have...and buffer zones can still work. Reduction of fuel works. Boundary landscaping works. Wildfires will always exist...they are natural events, but that doesn't mean that cities and infrastructure have to burn with them, even with high winds and dry conditions.

If nothing matters in the end, then just improve the transportation for faster/safer evacuations and let everything burn.

[overthere]

Yes I have...and buffer zones can still work. Reduction of fuel works. Boundary landscaping works. Wildfires will always exist...they are natural events, but that doesn't mean that cities and infrastructure have to burn with them, even with high winds and dry conditions.

If nothing matters in the end, then just improve the transportation for faster/safer evacuations and let everything burn.

I did not say nothing matters. I did say that a fire of this scope won't be stopped by buffering. It might be slowed in some cases. Many of the homes that burned in FM were well away from forest fringes. Embers are carried by high winds for kilometers, and house fires started several blocks away fro intact homes, and well within well buffered areas with nothing flammable on the perimeter.

I have lived in Northern Canad for much of my adult life, and have seen this rodeo many times. It seems many people are not aware that the big bucks 'fighting fires' rarely has the intention of extinguishing them, at very best they try to influence or redirect them. And that is what occurred in FM, the fire grew so quickly they abandoned the initial attempts- the fire was small when detected and they got on it early. I think they actually did an extraordianry job of coordination between forest fire efforts on the perimeter of FM and structural firefighters to limit the damage to homes. There was never any way to put it out or control it. As of today, neither has been done as the fire still burns and is still a serious threat. Fires of this size create their own weather.

I live about 4 hours by road from this fire, and it has been smoky though the smoke is from other fires in the Alberta, not the FM fire. It rained a little bit last night, really the first rain this area has seen since the snow melted. Hopefully it will rain hard for a couple of days, though that is not the forecast.

[msj]

I find this comparison interesting: https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=XEG.TO&t=1m&l=on&z=l&q=l&c=XLE%2CUSO

USO is an ETF tracking the price of oil, XLE is an ETF tracking US O&G industry and XEG is the Canadian ETF for our O&G industry.

You can see XEG fall around late April/ early May and then keep going down until the current recovery.

[Smallc]

So cooler weather has allowed Alberta to fight the fire from the ground. There are now 1200 firefighters doing that, with firefighters arriving from the US and South Africa.

I'll leave the partisan response to those that follow.

[The_Squid]

So cooler weather has allowed Alberta to fight the fire from the ground. There are now 1200 firefighters doing that, with firefighters arriving from the US and South Africa.

I'll leave the partisan response to those that follow.

The conservative partisans should be eating crow.....

[Big Guy]

Nice to see people enjoying their work:

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/shocked-that-tired-south-african-firefighters-burst-into-song-before-fighting-a-monster-fire-dont-be

[The_Squid]

Nice to see people enjoying their work:

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/shocked-that-tired-south-african-firefighters-burst-into-song-before-fighting-a-monster-fire-dont-be

Make them all citizens! Canada need more of this!!

[Shady]

Is the Trudeau fire still burning?