Canadians FEAR Trump...Big Time

[taxme]

7 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Also this:

 

My question is whether a huge broken promise matters to people.

Has there been any real promises that Trump has not kept yet? Sometimes in politics things just go way too slow. Let us wait and see what 2018 brings with Trump and with the promises that he has made to the people. His two terms are not up yet. After that if he has not done what he said he would do then people like you can gloat. But until then we shall just have to wait and see what happens. Works for me. 

[Michael Hardner]

11 hours ago, taxme said:

Let us wait and see what 2018 brings with Trump and with the promises that he has made to the people.  

Why ?  Do you have any such patience with Justin Trudeau ?  I don't.

I used to have strong feelings towards politicians, but eventually I matured and realized that they are limited in what they do and how they do it.  They use their marketing campaigns to make them look good but they usually very simple people.

I'm not sure whether you are being forthright or not about your actual enthusiasm.   If so, you should let yourself be disappointed.  If not, they just keep parroting the party line I suppose.  Cheers.

[taxme]

6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Why ?  Do you have any such patience with Justin Trudeau ?  I don't.

I used to have strong feelings towards politicians, but eventually I matured and realized that they are limited in what they do and how they do it.  They use their marketing campaigns to make them look good but they usually very simple people.

I'm not sure whether you are being forthright or not about your actual enthusiasm.   If so, you should let yourself be disappointed.  If not, they just keep parroting the party line I suppose.  Cheers.

So far from what I have seen from Trudeau is that the guy is clueless. Trudeau is just a stunned feminist apologist. We don't have to wait and see with Trudeau. He has already revealed his hand. He loves his terrorists, supports illegal immigration, and does enjoy apologizing whenever he can, and has pictures taken of him with a bunch of homosexuals. I would say that he is doing quite well as a liberal. Wouldn't you agree? 

I have lost all faith in politicians. They appear to be nothing more than a bunch of politically correct puppets on a string politicians. Most people who get themselves into politics think that they can make things better. But after awhile in politics they find out that they have no influence at all and are controlled by their leader who will tell them as to what they can say or not say. They end up do becoming simple minded puppets on a string. I am disappointed every day from not seeing our politicians showing some political incorrectness for a change. Canada is in need of more politically correct politicians, like Trump, and not zilch. 

Like I have said many times, give the man a chance. It is still early yet. It would appear as though your enthusiasm is to see Trump fail. Am I right?  

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, taxme said:

I would say that he is doing quite well as a liberal. Wouldn't you agree? 

No.  The Liberals usually play the middle and he hasn't been doing well with that, nor with his politics or policies in general.

2 hours ago, taxme said:

I have lost all faith in politicians.

No you haven't.  The US president is a politician by definition.

 

2 hours ago, taxme said:

Canada is in need of more politically correct politicians, like Trump, and not zilch. 

Wha ?

 

2 hours ago, taxme said:

It would appear as though your enthusiasm is to see Trump fail. Am I right?  

I believe he will fail.  I want him out of office.  I don't want all of his policies to fail, though, as that would hurt people.

[OftenWrong]

44 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I want him out of office.

I have asked this question of others, but still haven't heard a convincing reason: Why do you want him out of office? What specifically do you feel he has done, that is PROVEN, that warrants impeachment?

[bush_cheney2004]

36 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I have asked this question of others, but still haven't heard a convincing reason: Why do you want him out of office? What specifically do you feel he has done, that is PROVEN, that warrants impeachment?

 

Further,  what does it mean to want a foreign elected leader out of office...or even "in" office ?

How is it a relevant, practical desire ?

Edited January 7, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[9-18-1]

Donald Trump knows exactly what he is doing.

<-- Canadian

Edited January 7, 2018 by 9-18-1

[Michael Hardner]

23 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I have asked this question of others, but still haven't heard a convincing reason: Why do you want him out of office? What specifically do you feel he has done, that is PROVEN, that warrants impeachment?

I haven't commented on the specific process of 'impeachment'.  It's a political process with its own triggers and I am not enough of an expert to comment on how that works.

Why do I want him out of office ?  I don't trust him with the areas of responsibility that he has, that impact me specifically.

[Michael Hardner]

22 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Further,  what does it mean to want a foreign elected leader out of office...or even "in" office

It means very little, as in 'world opinion'.  But somebody asked me if I want him to 'fail' and I had to think on what that meant to a non-national such as me.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

It means very little, as in 'world opinion'.  But somebody asked me if I want him to 'fail' and I had to think on what that meant to a non-national such as me.

 

It is unclear to me how President Trump's success or failure would have a direct personal impact on a Canadian national.   Did some Canadians wish for a President Obama failure and removal from office because of his stance on the KXL pipeline ?    Could Carolyn Parrish sell thousands of Trump voodoo dolls in Canada to capitalize on this cross border anxiety and fear ?

The underlying question is why any non-US national would find themselves to be so influenced and dependent on the outcome of a foreign election in general, and even more so because of a populist like Trump at a personal level.

But if I understand correctly, it is the presumption and belief that Trump impacts another national personally,  whether it is true or not, and has the power to do so compared to someone like Fidel Castro, who could only impact Canadian vacation plans ?   Hence, no strong desire for Castro to fail and be out of office for over 40 years ?

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I haven't commented on the specific process of 'impeachment'.  It's a political process with its own triggers and I am not enough of an expert to comment on how that works.

Why do I want him out of office ?  I don't trust him with the areas of responsibility that he has, that impact me specifically.

Yes I realize that... you only said you want him out of office. Ok, fair enough. I didn't know much about him before the election, as I never watched his TV show. My first impression of him during the campaign was that he's just a fruitcake and would never make it, and yet here he is. My view now is what we are seeing is political theatre of the highest order, in all it's vicious, unabashed splendour. Trump may have started it though, by taking the incendiary position he did from the very beginning attacking both Democrats and Republicans.

I understand your fears. I suspect that the system has enough "fail-safes" to prevent someone like a President from making a mistake that could lead to catastrophe. Not so for other, nuclear powered rogue nations. I fear them far more than I fear Donald Trump. I've said before, I don't think Hillary would have been the better choice because Kim Jong Un is very likely a chauvinist, and may have reasons for despising her due to her past. Whenever Trump talks to him, he speaks at a level that he feels KJU understands. Yes it's a huge gamble... but there are few other options available. It's very late, in this game.

Forgetting for just a moment all the nonsense, or who to believe, we might be witnessing a "metamorphosis" taking place in politics, as Trump the outsider is not just changing US laws and regulations, but the political zeitgeist of the day. Trump may very well view his interaction with other politicians and world leaders in the same vein as when discussing business transactions between companies. In business there are no permanent alliances, or permanent enemies. Trump is not bound by political tradition or history, though he seems to recognize that it exists. I'm not sure if I would call Trump post-national, but he could be post-political.

[taxme]

On 1/6/2018 at 3:06 PM, Michael Hardner said:

No.  The Liberals usually play the middle and he hasn't been doing well with that, nor with his politics or policies in general.

No you haven't.  The US president is a politician by definition.

 

Wha?  

 

I believe he will fail.  I want him out of office.  I don't want all of his policies to fail, though, as that would hurt people.

Agreed, Trudeau has done dyk for Canada since he has become dictator of Canada. JT is doing what his dad was seen doing on a train in Alberta many decades ago. Giving Alberta and English Canada the finger. 

I have lost all faith in Canadian, I repeat Canadian politicians. Trump has said that he did not want to be referred to as a politician. I agree the fewer of them around the better for all. 

Wha? Error-error. I meant to say political incorrectness. 

Trump won't fail. Keep daydreaming. So, hold on to your britches, fella because Trump will not be out of office for another seven years. Aw shucks. Chuckle-chuckle. 

[Michael Hardner]

10 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

1. It is unclear to me how President Trump's success or failure would have a direct personal impact on a Canadian national.   

2. The underlying question is why any non-US national would find themselves to be so influenced and dependent on the outcome of a foreign election in general, and even more so because of a populist like Trump at a personal level.

3. But if I understand correctly, it is the presumption and belief that Trump impacts another national personally,  whether it is true or not, and has the power to do so compared to someone like Fidel Castro, who could only impact Canadian vacation plans ?   Hence, no strong desire for Castro to fail and be out of office for over 40 years ?

1. The US is our senior partner on matters of security, economics and other areas.

2. Pierre Trudeau's comment about 'sleeping with an elephant'

3. I am glad Castro is gone.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. The US is our senior partner on matters of security, economics and other areas.

2. Pierre Trudeau's comment about 'sleeping with an elephant'

3. I am glad Castro is gone.

 

OK, but how does one reconcile the obvious dichotomy:  real or imagined Canadian dependence and impotence with a determined goal of failure and impeachment of the democratically elected president of the U.S. ?     Where does this neurotic investment come from...Pierre Trudeau ?

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

OK, but how does one reconcile the obvious dichotomy:  real or imagined Canadian dependence and impotence with a determined goal of failure and impeachment of the democratically elected president of the U.S. ?     Where does this neurotic investment come from...Pierre Trudeau ?

I think another president would do better for me (and Americans for that matter) in terms of economic well-being and security coverage.  It seems pretty obvious to me.

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

I think another president would do better for me (and Americans for that matter) in terms of economic well-being and security coverage.  It seems pretty obvious to me.

 

Roger that, but how can two very different thoughts occupy the same space:   presumed dependence on  American choices <> foreign judgement and condemnation of those choices.

Do you think that Americans should change their president whenever the choice does not meet yours or other Americans' approval ?   How would "failure" improve the situation ?

In general, why is Canada so voluntarily dependent and invested in American choices and decisions in the first place ?

[Boges]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Do you think that Americans should change their president whenever the choice does not meet yours or other Americans' approval ?   How would "failure" improve the situation ?

In general, why is Canada so voluntarily dependent and invested in American choices and decisions in the first place ?

Who says we are? 

It seems you're troubled that people have strong opinions on the US as a cultural juggernaut. 

I've said this to you before, the whole political theatre of the US is just that THEATRE! It's interesting that the World's Leader in so much managed to elect a immature 71 year old billionaire that acts like an internet troll most of the time. 

Now I guess your problems become our problems when he starts wars with rogue nuclear states or rips up mutually beneficial trade deals, but as of now it's fascinating to see a man that's hated by two thirds of the US try to run the country, and doing it so poorly. 

Yes I know our PM is also a man-child who's greatest asset is how he plays the media. But you don't need to worry about him, he has no big buttons on his desk. 

Edited January 8, 2018 by Boges

[bush_cheney2004]

5 minutes ago, Boges said:

Who says we are? 

It seems you're troubled that people have strong opinions on the US as a cultural juggernaut. 

 

 

Canada says it is...and has been for decades.    The U.S. is a "cultural juggernaut" in Canada....because Canada is not, and chooses to sleep with the "elephant".

 

Quote

I've said this to you before, the whole political theatre of the US is just that THEATRE! It's interesting that the World's Leader in so much managed to elect a immature 71 year old billionaire that acts like an internet troll most of the time.

 

"World's Leader" ???   Methinks you give the POTUS far too much credit.

Does Canada need/see a leader always coming from another country?   Is that what is going on here ?

 

Quote

Now I guess your problems become our problems when he starts wars with rogue nuclear states or rips up mutually beneficial trade deals, but as of now it's fascinating to see a man that's hated by two thirds of the US try to run the country, and doing it so poorly.

 

Again, so what ?   Jimmy Carter was "hated" too, and ran the country so poorly, a B-actor from Hollywood kicked his ass in 1980.   American presidents start wars...what's the difference with Trump ?    Obama warred his ass off...Canadians loved him !!

 

Quote

Yet I know our PM is also a man-child who's greatest asset is how he plays the media. But you don't need to worry about him, he has no big buttons on his desk. 

 

I wouldn't care even if he did....Canada's PM will always be a lesser god.

JFK provoked a response from a much larger nuclear power, not the tiny DPRK.

[bush_cheney2004]

On 11/8/2016 at 3:44 AM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Trump is a trash based on his racist sexist speeches and ideas and American people today are going to put him where he belongs that is the trash bag of the history.

 

Update:   Donald J. Trump has been President of the United States for almost a year.   

Good luck with the next "trash bag" moment.

[Boges]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Canada says it is...and has been for decades.    The U.S. is a "cultural juggernaut" in Canada....because Canada is not, and chooses to sleep with the "elephant".

Just about all countries are influenced by the US. Canada has a unique relationship because of geography. 

Quote

 

"World's Leader" ???   Methinks you give the POTUS far too much credit.

 

I think the trope is Leader of the Free World. Do you dispute this moniker? 

 

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Again, so what ?   Jimmy Carter was "hated" too, and ran the country so poorly, a B-actor from Hollywood kicked his ass in 1980.   American presidents start wars...what's the difference with Trump ?    Obama warred his ass off...Canadians loved him !!

Perhaps Trump's foibles are made more glaring because of social media, but only because he participates in it wholeheartedly. Tweeting about a book that criticizes you is a great way to talk about the book more. 

Quote

JFK provoked a response from a much larger nuclear power, not the tiny DPRK.

And those days were seen as the closer we've come to complete annihilation than we ever have. Again, I'm not worried, some might be. 

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Boges said:

Just about all countries are influenced by the US. Canada has a unique relationship because of geography.

 

Lots of countries are subject to geography, but none choose to be so heavily influenced by U.S. culture as does Canada.

There is nothing unique about Canada...or the U.S.

 

Quote

I think the trope is Leader of the Free World. Do you dispute this moniker?

 

Yes, I do.   It is part cop-out and part FEAR of the international void and chaos that would otherwise result.  

Lack of leadership from Canada or other nations does not a king make.

 

Quote

Perhaps Trump's foibles are made more glaring because of social media, but only because he participates in it wholeheartedly. Tweeting about a book that criticizes you is a great way to talk about the book more.

 

Trump got elected president that way....why would he change now ?

 

Quote

And those days were seen as the closer we've come to complete annihilation than we ever have. Again, I'm not worried, some might be. 

 

That's certainly more objective and reasonable, but some people are not good students of history.   Trump FEAR makes them irrational.

U.S. strategic nuclear forces are always ready to obliterate any country by design, regardless of who is president.

[Boges]

8 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Lots of countries are subject to geography, but none choose to be so heavily influenced by U.S. culture as does Canada.

There is nothing unique about Canada...or the U.S.

It's a mutual relationship. Border US states are very close with Canada as well. But no other country shares such a large border with the world's largest economy. It's not exactly a choice. Would you prefer if your neighbour to the North was more, or less a third world country like your neighbour to the south? 

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Yes, I do.   It is part cop-out and part FEAR of the international void and chaos that would otherwise result.  

 

I guess this is the isolationist worldview. I can see why you defend Trump. 

 

Quote

Trump got elected president that way....why would he change now ?

I don't expect him too. But it makes it really easy to find things to criticize, much easier than with any other President. 

 

Edited January 8, 2018 by Boges

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Boges said:

It's a mutual relationship. Border US states are very close with Canada as well. But no other country shares such a large border with the world's largest economy. It's not exactly a choice. Would you prefer if your neighbour to the North was more, or less a third world country like your neighbour to the south?

 

It's mutual, but far more one sided in the case of Canada.  

If it is not a choice, then what is it ?   

Mexico has a very long history with the U.S. as well, arguably with more geographic impact than Canada.   More people speak Spanish in the U.S. than French in Canada.

 

Quote

I guess this is the isolationist worldview. I can see why you defend Trump. 

 

 

Exactly....I have no sympathy for Canada's/Freeland's/Trudeau's insistence that the U.S. must continue to bear the "burden of leadership" just because Canada, Germany, France, and other nations refuse to do so.    America does not exist to provide what other nations refuse to provide for themselves.

 

Quote

I don't expect him too. But it makes it really easy to find things to criticize, much easier than with any other President. 

 

All U.S. presidents are criticized...it's part of the job description.    Irrational FEAR of Trump blunts and distorts such criticism compared to previous presidents and their policies.

[eyeball]

On 1/6/2018 at 3:53 PM, OftenWrong said:

I have asked this question of others, but still haven't heard a convincing reason: Why do you want him out of office? What specifically do you feel he has done, that is PROVEN, that warrants impeachment?

You're discounting the constructive potential of destruction such a spectacle in power offers.

While a sense of appreciation for what is right and good can lead in that direction more often than not the path to enlightenment is a painful one.

Being governed is like living in a house besieged with rampant substance abuse and powerful abusers.

Nothing will get better until the bottom falls out. Who knows maybe the harder things fall the bigger the bounce.

Go Trump go.

[?Impact]

On 1/6/2018 at 3:23 PM, Michael Hardner said:

 They use their marketing campaigns to make them look good but they usually very simple people.

That might be true for most politicians, but not the very stable geniuses.