Britain Sets Date for EU Referendum -- Brexit

[Archduke al-Qaddafi]

I just returned from a trip to London and this once-great city seems set on turning into a third world slum like Karachi or Mumbai. Paris is even worse, it is too far gone to be saved, but Britain's exit from the farcical EU is a step in the right direction.

[SpankyMcFarland]

Yes, his drinking problem has been a major embarassment within the EU-circles. That's why they probably try to ditch him soon as Brexit gives a perfectly valid reason to do so. If an internationla organisation loses one of its strongest members under one person's chairmanship one can not consider that chairmanship as a success.

He was such an easy target for the Brexiteers. Donald Tusk is much harder to mock. They need new blood at the top, people who are responsive to the frustrations of ordinary Europeans.

[Big Guy]

I just returned from a trip to London and this once-great city seems set on turning into a third world slum like Karachi or Mumbai. Paris is even worse, it is too far gone to be saved, but Britain's exit from the farcical EU is a step in the right direction.

I assume that you are referring to the areas populated mostly by immigrants. How then would you "save" Britain - send "them" all back?

[-TSS-]

The race to succeed Cameron is on. Three candidates left; Theresa May, Andrea Leadsom and Michael Gove. One of them will be dropped later this week and the party-members will elect between the two remaining candidates.

I think the Tories should have moved much faster to find a successor to Cameron. What the country needs is stability, which at least means that there is certainty about who is the leader.

[SpankyMcFarland]

The race to succeed Cameron is on. Three candidates left; Theresa May, Andrea Leadsom and Michael Gove. One of them will be dropped later this week and the party-members will elect between the two remaining candidates.

I think the Tories should have moved much faster to find a successor to Cameron. What the country needs is stability, which at least means that there is certainty about who is the leader.

Looks like May will win.

[Archduke al-Qaddafi]

I assume that you are referring to the areas populated mostly by immigrants.

Which parts of London are not mostly black and brown? I know that there are white people in the city but I certainly didn't see very many of them. Maybe they all hide in Buckingham Palace?

[-TSS-]

Very hard to see how this impasse could be solved without having an early general election. Btw, this crisis is a splendid example to demonstrate why fixed-term parliaments is not a very good system.

[kactus]

Which parts of London are not mostly black and brown? I know that there are white people in the city but I certainly didn't see very many of them. Maybe they all hide in Buckingham Palace?

The beauty of London is that it is multi racial..If you had gone to golders green i(you may already know...,) it is mostly inhabitted with jews. Brixton has mostly blacks and some parts like Southall is traditionally populated with Indians. But to say that whites are minority iin London is just a heresay and ignorant statement...,

[?Impact]

London is 71% White, 13% asian (about half of which are from India), 11% black, and 5% others. There are a few boroughs like Newham and Brent where whites are in the minority, but in 27 of 33 boroughs they are the majority.

[-TSS-]

Michael Gove is out of the Tory leadership-race. Quite a silly system they have as a mixture of MPs voting and the party-members electing between the final two.

[betsy]

Thanks to UK - we probably see the beginning of the end for EU.

What other EU members want referendums?

While many eastern and southeastern European nations want to join the EU, Britain’s referendum Thursday has inspired other members to consider their relations with the economic bloc.

Italy’s 5 Star antiestablishment movement, which recently won the mayoral race in Rome, has called for a referendum on whether to leave the EU and get rid of a single currency system. The EU uses the euro as its bloc-wide currency (Britain, unlike Italy, always kept the pound).

“The euro as it exists today doesn’t work and we need to consider other alternatives such as a euro 2 or alternative currencies,” said party leader Luigi Di Maio, the Wall Street Journal reported.

Marine Le Pen, France’s far-right National Front party leader, said if she is elected president next year, she would call for a referendum, or a Frexit. “France has perhaps a thousand more reasons to leave the EU than the English,” she said.

The Brexit vote has fueled fears a “leave” vote could push EU members Sweden and Greece also to hold referendums.

http://www.ibtimes.com/what-european-union-why-anti-immigrant-leaders-across-europe-want-their-own-brexit-2385816

[SpankyMcFarland]

This is not good for the EU's image:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jul/08/jose-manuel-barroso-to-become-next-head-of-goldman-sachs-international

[Argus]

London is 71% White, 13% asian (about half of which are from India), 11% black, and 5% others. There are a few boroughs like Newham and Brent where whites are in the minority, but in 27 of 33 boroughs they are the majority.

A visitor, however, could understandably be mistaken given that visible minorities tend to fill many of the service level jobs in London, such as hotel staff, retail clerks, restaurant servers, etc.

[kactus]

A visitor, however, could understandably be mistaken given that visible minorities tend to fill many of the service level jobs in London, such as hotel staff, retail clerks, restaurant servers, etc.

Good for them to fill up those positions...

No one gives a damn about the so called "visitor" with racist, xenophobic tendencies....

London thrives on asian, blacks and other ethnic groups. Those indians whose second and third generation were brought to London to build the infrastructure of the city with their blood helped the capital of one of the most prestigious countries in the world to flourish. They are not suddenly gonna disappear because certain bigotted individuals/ sub-section of the society are under the illusion that having their country back tantamounts ethnic cleansing....

Edited July 12, 2016 by kactus

[Big Guy]

Some people lost more than others because of Brexit:

Count tennis champion Serena Williams among those who have lost money in wake of last month’s Brexit vote.

Williams beat Angelique Kerber 7-5, 6-3 in Saturday’s Wimbledon final, her 22nd major title, tied with Steffi Graf for most in the Open Era. The winner’s prize is worth $2.59 million when converted to U.S. dollars, about $380,000 less than it was worth a few days before the tournament, on the eve of the U.K.’s vote to leave the European Union.

[jbg]

First Johnson and now Farage have bailed out of politics. First it was "Follow me taking the our Nation out of the EU". So they throw a wrench into the British motor then decide to bail to let others worry about it and/or try to fix it.

They sure played the Brexit side for a bunch of dopes. They led the "Leave" side lemmings to the edge of the precipice and when they started to fall, these two leaders took off in the other direction.

Hey JT - see what happens when you have referendums.

I think they baled since the new leader will be forced to call an election shortly. No one wants the rump end of a term. Ask the following people:

1. John Napier Turner
2. Kim Campbell
3. Paul Martin; and/or
4. Gordon Brown

Opportunities are far better with a clean slate.

[Argus]

Good for them to fill up those positions...

No one gives a damn about the so called "visitor" with racist, xenophobic tendencies....

You are quick to hurl insults without cause. I would expect any visitor who arrives in Kenya, for example, and found he encountered more Asians than Africans would express some confusion, as would someone who went to Japan and found Africans everywhere. Why could someone who had never been to London not express surprise that he mostly encountered Asians and Africans instead of Caucasians?

[kactus]

You are quick to hurl insults without cause. I would expect any visitor who arrives in Kenya, for example, and found he encountered more Asians than Africans would express some confusion, as would someone who went to Japan and found Africans everywhere. Why could someone who had never been to London not express surprise that he mostly encountered Asians and Africans instead of Caucasians?

First of all London is not Tokyo which is homogenous to the known world where the concept of immigration is alien. Nor is it Kenya! So the comparison is irrelevant and at best naive. No idea why that comparison Was made in the first place!

Anyway...any country with a history of colonisation has seen a degree of people movement whether it has been in the form of slave trades or immigration. So this should not come as a surprise to the known "visitor"...

Edited July 12, 2016 by kactus

[Wilber]

I was reading a newspaper in Tokyo back in the nineties and there was an article on immigration. At the time they said that there were only about a quarter of a million non Japanese full time residents in Japan and 75% of them were Korean. This has never been an issue in Japan.

[Big Guy]

I think they baled since the new leader will be forced to call an election shortly. No one wants the rump end of a term. Ask the following people:

1. John Napier Turner
2. Kim Campbell
3. Paul Martin; and/or
4. Gordon Brown

Opportunities are far better with a clean slate.

I assume that one of the parties will run on either ignoring the results of the referendum or the promise of another referendum. That could be interesting.

[Rue]

Thanks to UK - we probably see the beginning of the end for EU.

http://www.ibtimes.com/what-european-union-why-anti-immigrant-leaders-across-europe-want-their-own-brexit-2385816

Scapegoating the UK for a dissolution of EU is illogical. If it dissolves simply blaming the UK makes no sense. The EU existed before the UK joinedand it can bloody well survive without the UK. Its not dependent on the UK to survive.

In fact if the EU disintegrates it will be as a result of may complex phenomena including:

1- a corrupted council that is not elected that makes arbitrary decisions imposed on member states which fundamentally is undemocratic and out of touch with the people it regulates allowing no opposition;

2-a useless and expensive layer of EU government called an assembly that rubber stamps the council's decisions and costs a fortune to run and pays its members an outrageous amount of salary and pensions for life-its a useless appendage;

3-regulations that are quite often arbitrary and make no sense;

4a-a policy in regards to immigration which enables a movement of immigrants from the fourth an third world as well as Eastern Europe to move to countries where these immigrants have no advanced skills needed by those countries and so are subjectively seen as a burden on these states;

4b-while immigrants appear to be filling manual and service jobs that do not require skills, they are subjectively perceived when doing this of replacing unskilled workers in those host countries;

5-further to 4a and 4b the ingterconnected subjjective perception that the movement of foreigners on EU passports is a danger to the particular culture of the host nations as these immigrants APPEAR to lack the proper assimilation tools and are not assimilating to European values and customs but retaining their own including not learning new languages;

6-traditional friction between many Euro nations and France and Germany who consider the two unfairly dominating the EU.

The UK leaving is not going to embold other states to leave. The have not states like Greece, Portugal, Spain can't leave. They are bankrupt.

If the Netherlands or France leaves it will be because of domestic Dutch concerns and there is no indication they are leaving. Have not nations in the EU of course won't leave, only those paying in more then they take out and so for example Norway;s distrust of the EU has nothing to do with the UK. Italy's problem is over economic policies it feels Germany inflicts on it, not British policies or attitudes.

As well there is a British election coming. The leaders heading into the election might re-run the vote to exit or a threatened new referendum by Scotland may force a new referendum on it was well. It aint over until the fat lady sings but one thing is for sure, marginally employed older people outside London voted to get out, Londoners, Scotts and Northern Irish said stay. This ain't over until the fat lady sings and by fat lady I do not mean the new UK PM who is not fat.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Rue

[betsy]

Scapegoating the UK for a dissolution of EU is illogical. If it dissolves simply blaming the UK makes no sense. The EU existed before the UK joinedand it can bloody well survive without the UK. Its not dependent on the UK to survive.

In fact if the EU disintegrates it will be as a result of may complex phenomena including:

1- a corrupted council that is not elected that makes arbitrary decisions imposed on member states which fundamentally is undemocratic and out of touch with the people it regulates allowing no opposition;

2-a useless and expensive layer of EU government called an assembly that rubber stamps the council's decisions and costs a fortune to run and pays its members an outrageous amount of salary and pensions for life-its a useless appendage;

3-regulations that are quite often arbitrary and make no sense;

4a-a policy in regards to immigration which enables a movement of immigrants from the fourth an third world as well as Eastern Europe to move to countries where these immigrants have no advanced skills needed by those countries and so are subjectively seen as a burden on these states;

4b-while immigrants appear to be filling manual and service jobs that do not require skills, they are subjectively perceived when doing this of replacing unskilled workers in those host countries;

5-further to 4a and 4b the ingterconnected subjjective perception that the movement of foreigners on EU passports is a danger to the particular culture of the host nations as these immigrants APPEAR to lack the proper assimilation tools and are not assimilating to European values and customs but retaining their own including not learning new languages;

6-traditional friction between many Euro nations and France and Germany who consider the two unfairly dominating the EU.

The UK leaving is not going to embold other states to leave. The have not states like Greece, Portugal, Spain can't leave. They are bankrupt.

If the Netherlands or France leaves it will be because of domestic Dutch concerns and there is no indication they are leaving. Have not nations in the EU of course won't leave, only those paying in more then they take out and so for example Norway;s distrust of the EU has nothing to do with the UK. Italy's problem is over economic policies it feels Germany inflicts on it, not British policies or attitudes.

As well there is a British election coming. The leaders heading into the election might re-run the vote to exit or a threatened new referendum by Scotland may force a new referendum on it was well. It aint over until the fat lady sings but one thing is for sure, marginally employed older people outside London voted to get out, Londoners, Scotts and Northern Irish said stay. This ain't over until the fat lady sings and by fat lady I do not mean the new UK PM who is not fat.

Call it whatever - but the fact is that UK's exit will inspire others to have their own referundum.

We're not talking about the "have-nots."

Why would a have-not" nation want to leave when they're getting bailed out by the "haves?"

The European debt crisis (often also referred to as the Eurozone crisis or the European sovereign debt crisis) is a multi-year debt crisis that has been taking place in the European Union since the end of 2009. Several eurozone member states (Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Spain and Cyprus) were unable to repay or refinance their government debt or to bail out over-indebted banks under their national supervision without the assistance of third parties like other Eurozone countries, the European Central Bank (ECB), or the International Monetary Fund (IMF).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_debt_crisis

If referendums can't be conclusive - I suppose democratic process is nothing more than a blatant farce.

Edited July 11, 2016 by betsy

[kactus]

Looks like Theresa May is now set for the PM role

Edited July 12, 2016 by kactus

[Big Guy]

...

If referendums can't be conclusive - I suppose democratic process is nothing more than a blatant farce.

Democracy is the process by which elected members make decisions on behalf of their electorate.

A referendum is a general vote by the electorate on a single political question that has been referred to them for a direct decision. There is nothing to bind the representatives to vote to create law based on the results of a referendum.

[betsy]

Democracy is the process by which elected members make decisions on behalf of their electorate.

A referendum is a general vote by the electorate on a single political question that has been referred to them for a direct decision. There is nothing to bind the representatives to vote to create law based on the results of a referendum.

A referendum is a vote! According to merriam:

referendum

• : an event in which the people of a county, state, etc., vote for or against a law that deals with a specific issue : a public vote on a particular issue

Why would an issue be referred to the people for approval or rejection, if the result is not going to be respected?

What? You're saying we can keep voting until the desired result is achieved? Is that democracy?

Edited July 12, 2016 by betsy