Britain Sets Date for EU Referendum -- Brexit

[-TSS-]

It could be that nobody really wants to be the next PM of the United Kingdom as his or her job would be to trigger the article 50. It is a real possibility that the next weeks, months or even years as the deadline for finishing exit-negotiations is two years will be about quarrelling over the terms of departure. The EU itself is acting like an insulted and dumped lover who doesn't see anything wrong in own actions.

[Argus]

You and the Exit camp are entitled to that opinion but again it doesn't refute my point: the EU of 2016 is more like a country than a trade-agreement and people like you (and others on this thread) really need to stop making your points by comparing the situation to simple trade-agreements.

And people in the UK already had a country. They didn't want another one.

[Wilber]

Seems to me that one of the biggest complaints you hear about trade agreements is unequal labour standards. When the EU tries to a dress that it is accused of stepping on a country's sovereignty.

[SpankyMcFarland]

These are worrying times for London. A lot of banking jobs depend on access to the EU market. Farage and his ilk do not make a sensible compromise easy.

You can see how the UK has changed by the way people comment about Scotland or NI. This is not a united country.

[Icebound]

It is ironic that the pro-business governments who were the most in favour of "globalization" ... and who mostly ignored the screams from the "left" that globalization will be bad for "the little guy"....

...these are now the same governments which are pretending to "speak up" for the "little guy".by pretending to "curb" globalization. Which we all know won't happen.

[TimG]

It is ironic that the pro-business governments who were the most in favour of "globalization" ... and who mostly ignored the screams from the "left" that globalization will be bad for "the little guy"....

Free trade and globalization is generally good for the 'little guy' who benefits from a wider selection of better quality and cheaper goods. Where free trade fell apart is because we allowed trade with regimes that China that do not reciprocate and place a kinds of direct and indirect barriers that prevent western firms from getting access to the Chinese market while stealing IP which allows them to undercut their competitors in the Western markets.

This was aggravated by left-wing governments that constantly heap more costs and regulation onto employers in western countries which discourages hiring and ridiculous foreign worker rules that allow companies to import people to do jobs at much less than it would cost to entice local workers.

We need to move to a model where barriers are met with barriers.

If Chinese insist that western companies must have 'local partners' to sell in China then the same requirement will be on Chinese that sell here. If the Chinese refuse to respect IP in China then Chinese companies will have no right to protect their IP in western countries. If the Chinese refuse to allow Western companies to by out Chinese companies then Chinese companies cannot buy any western company.

There will obviously be undesirable side affects of the policies I suggest but what we are doing is not working.

We need to try something different without giving up on the general principal that free markets are the best in the long run.

Edited June 30, 2016 by TimG

[kimmy]

The stock markets have now fully recovered from the post-Brexit shock.

Those of you who were worried about your stock portfolios can now reshizzle your holdings to limit British exposure without penalty. Go! Go now!

-k

[-TSS-]

Something has clearly happened behind the scenes. Today Boris Johnson said he won't be a candidate in the forthcoming party-leader's contest so he won't be PM. As the referendum was only advisory, not legally binding, and Kerry visited London yesterday and probably told the Brits that Brexit is just unacceptable it could well be that the article 50 will never be triggered.

[Argus]

Something has clearly happened behind the scenes. Today Boris Johnson said he won't be a candidate in the forthcoming party-leader's contest so he won't be PM. As the referendum was only advisory, not legally binding, and Kerry visited London yesterday and probably told the Brits that Brexit is just unacceptable it could well be that the article 50 will never be triggered.

From what I've been reading he was betrayed by Grove, who was supposed to back him but instead moved to take the job himself.

[Wilber]

The Pound spiked when Boris said he was pulling out, then promptly tanked again.

[taxme]

The Brits had a similar referendum in 1975 on the then-EEC and back then 67% of the voters wanted to stay. Unlikely that in 40 years people would have become more conservative and nationalist. Today's EU is just so different to the old EEC that people don't accept it. If the EU were solely a union based on international trade between the member-states a referendum would have been a waste of time.

Conservatism and nationalism are on the rise. The we the people want to be free and be able to do their own thing, and not have dictators like those of the EU to dictate to them as to how they are going to live. The EU has become a failed elite globalist bankster one world government failure. Bye-bye.

[taxme]

Something has clearly happened behind the scenes. Today Boris Johnson said he won't be a candidate in the forthcoming party-leader's contest so he won't be PM. As the referendum was only advisory, not legally binding, and Kerry visited London yesterday and probably told the Brits that Brexit is just unacceptable it could well be that the article 50 will never be triggered.

Kerry said that there are ways to get around the referendum when he was in London. Hmmm, I wonder what he meant by that? I am pretty sure that the globalist elite banksters are not going to take this vote to leave lying down. I believe that they will try to pull off something to stop it. Hopefully, they don't try anything stupid. Otherwise, the chit will hit the fan for sure if they try.

[taxme]

The Pound spiked when Boris said he was pulling out, then promptly tanked again.

The Pound will go up and down until the global elite banksters decide where to level it off. It's just a money game that they like to play. Fear not.

[taxme]

So what's your plan after you blow everything up?

So, when are you going to accept the results, and stop your whining? The deed is done. Have the globalist elite banksters and their controlled media got you all worried? Relax, all will be ok. But if anyone does any blowing up here, it will probably be done by the side that lost. Sore losers indeed.

[Wilber]

So, when are you going to accept the results, and stop your whining? The deed is done. Have the globalist elite banksters and their controlled media got you all worried? Relax, all will be ok. But if anyone does any blowing up here, it will probably be done by the side that lost. Sore losers indeed.

So there is no plan other than don't worry be happy.

The losers have yet to be determined

Edited June 30, 2016 by Wilber

[Wilber]

The Pound will go up and down until the global elite banksters decide where to level it off. It's just a money game that they like to play. Fear not.

Oh, they will definetaly do what is right for them.

[Icebound]

An interesting... albeit lengthy ... non-partisan explanation of HOW the UK got to where it has.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/30/brexit-disaster-decades-in-the-making

This is the kind of crap that has been happening in Canada as well.

Lessons for Politicians everywhere..... a couple of excerpts:

"During the campaign, our departure from the EU had many proud and pushy parents. In victory it is an orphan."

...

...

In 1951, 97% of votes were cast either for Conservatives or Labour. By last year, the combined total was 67%. Fewer people want to vote, and fewer voters want the two major parties. With a first-past-the-post system, designed to ensure that one of those parties wins a majority, our governments now preside with diminished legitimacy over a splintered political landscape. Cameron’s Tories were elected last year with only 24% of the eligible vote. In 1950, Winston Churchill was defeated even though 38% of eligible voters backed him.

...

The leave campaign did not invent racism. The deployment of bigotry to suit electoral ends has a longstanding tradition in this country, which is often denounced even by those who have done exactly that. Neglect, both benign and malign, and indulgence, both covert and overt, left those prejudices open for opportunists to exploit for their own ends. This was one such opportunity.

...

This week, David Cameron condemned “despicable” xenophobic attacks in the wake of the EU referendum. But just last month he was galvanising the Tory faithful in London with claims that the Labour mayoral candidate, Sadiq Khan, was in cahoots with an imam who, Cameron alleged, supported Isis. That claim was so utterly false that if the prime minister did not enjoy parliamentary privilege against charges of defamation, he would have had to pay damages

...

[Wilber]

Good article. Trump supporters take note.

Sign of the times and I do hear those sentiments in Canada.

[TimG]

Sign of the times and I do hear those sentiments in Canada.

I hear them too whenever some start calling people racist instead of listening to the argument being made. People who accuse people of racism simply because they have a opinion the accuser does not like are as bad, if not worse, than people who are actually racists. Edited July 1, 2016 by TimG

[Wilber]

I'm not talking about racism. Racism exists everywhere in the world and probably always will. I'm referring to the fact that people are increasingly willing to follow any pied piper that panders to peoples fears and prejudices just to boost their own egos. At the risk of Godwin's law, what I'm seeing is the same kind of dynamic that gets people like Hitler elected. Johnson and Farange are emperors with no clothes but who knows who else might come along.

[TimG]

I'm referring to the fact that people are increasingly willing to follow any pied piper that panders to peoples fears and prejudices just to boost their own egos.

Like Bernie Sanders you mean? You are also making presumptions about the motivation of the people who vote for these kinds of politicians. Many may know perfectly well that their leaders are making promises that they can't keep but they are so pissed off at the current crop of leaders that they are looking to shake up the system. The way to deal with these issues is come up with sensible strategies that addressed the underlying anger instead of dismissing the anger as racism/xenophobia/whatever. The latter approach is what created the Trump monster in the first place. Edited July 1, 2016 by TimG

[dre]

Free trade and globalization is generally good for the 'little guy' who benefits from a wider selection of better quality and cheaper goods.

That's a piece of conventional wisdom that's not necessarily true. In a lot of cases people have traded good middle class jobs, for cheap non-durable consumer goods. Yeah... they have a nice big TV set, but they can no longer afford to send their kids to college.

Free trade at best is a mixed bag.

The term is also a total miss-characterization. It should really be named "Forced Trade". "Free trade" is what we had before... where citizens and their elected governments made trade decisions based on voters interests. The current set of agreements takes away that power to decide from voters and makes it illegal for them to deny - for example - some multinational or foreign corporation from flooding markets with goods made by slaves, or securing the rights to plunder a nation for its natural resources.

Trade has become LESS free.

Edited July 1, 2016 by dre

[Wilber]

Like Bernie Sanders you mean? You are also making presumptions about the motivation of the people who vote for these kinds of politicians. Many may know perfectly well that their leaders are making promises that they can't keep but they are so pissed off at the current crop of leaders that they are looking to shake up the system. The way to deal with these issues is come up with sensible strategies that addressed the underlying anger instead of dismissing the anger as racism/xenophobia/whatever. The latter approach is what created the Trump monster in the first place.

I understand people being pissed off with the current leaders but since when did lashing out solve anything. Britain is going to be in for some tough times because of this and people like Farange will be responsible for a lot of it. He, Johnson and Trump are the establishment. Trump created the Trump monster and if you don't believe it, just ask him.

[TimG]

I understand people being pissed off with the current leaders but since when did lashing out solve anything.

What alternatives are being offered? If people are only given a choice between the status quo and a lunatic people will pick the lunatic if the pushed enough. The blame rests with the establishment that figured they could just ignore these issues.

[bush_cheney2004]

..... He, Johnson and Trump are the establishment. Trump created the Trump monster and if you don't believe it, just ask him.

Trump will do fine either way, and is not responsible for U.K. policies or choices. The U.K. has voted to leave the EU and should not fear its choice, which would be a far worse circumstance and ultimate capitulation.