Donald vs Hillary

Hal 9000 · November 9, 2016

I for one am refreshed by the Trump presidency. The Americans have said they're not going to vote for a woman simply because there is a woman to vote for, they stood up against criminality in the White House (and lets face it, the FBI knows she's a criminal-so should we), they've stated that they do in fact want some sense of order, that jobs and infrastructure are important, that they disagree with "regime change", they'd rather get along with Russia than antagonize them, that borders and security do in fact matter, so on and so forth.

There is more going on in the world than gay marriage, overpriced healthcare and the dream of free education and the Americans have said as much.

Argus · November 9, 2016

19 minutes ago, sharkman said:

LOL! It didn't take long for the Hitler reference! The left needs to find some new cards to play with. The racist and Hitler cards are pretty worn out by now and don't jive with reality.

It's not just the Left that can recognize a race baiting demagogue, you know.

Argus · November 9, 2016

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Another factor on the ground that may not have been very evident to those in Canada was the very timely failure of ACA (Obamacare) private health insurance markets across many states. The costs for premiums exploded for September-November enrollments, and some health insurance companies abandoned the market entirely, reducing competition.

Obamacare was a very real and painful example of Washington effing up the lives of working class families, not just a political football for Obama and Congress.

Right. So now they will go back to their old system, which had higher annual premium raises, and which will leave blue collar workers who don't work for large companies, independent contractors and those with expensive-to-treat conditions out in the cold. Yay progress.

Hal 9000 · November 9, 2016

1 minute ago, Argus said:

Trump doesn't like women who challenge him. But FOX was his bosom buddy for the entire campaign. Its coverage was heavily slanted against Clinton. His press secretary will likely be FOX's Tucker Carlson.

Hannity (and maybe Pirro) was the only cheerleader, Kelly, Hume, O'Reilly and even Wallce were all pretty hard on Trump.

Argus · November 9, 2016

3 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

. There is more going on in the world than gay marriage, overpriced healthcare and the dream of free education and the Americans have said as much.

Like?

bush_cheney2004 · November 9, 2016

Just now, Argus said:

Right. So now they will go back to their old system, which had higher annual premium raises, and which will leave blue collar workers who don't work for large companies, independent contractors and those with expensive-to-treat conditions out in the cold. Yay progress.

See...you don't get it.

The solution was not to screw those who already had affordable health care insurance, or rob Medicare budgets, or tax health insurance benefits. Obamacare helped to do Clinton in, and she had failed at this before (1993).

Hal 9000 · November 9, 2016

1 minute ago, Argus said:

Like?

Huh! Like the other things I mentioned - obviously!

Argus · November 9, 2016

7 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

See...you don't get it.

The solution was not to screw those who already had affordable health care insurance, or rob Medicare budgets, or tax health insurance benefits. Obamacare helped to do Clinton in, and she had failed at this before (1993).

How were those who already had 'affordable' health care screwed? Yes, there were going to be large premium raises but the vast majority of those would be hugely offset by subsidies.

Argus · November 9, 2016

7 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

Huh! Like the other things I mentioned - obviously!

You didn't mention anything else except maybe 'order' which the US already has and 'infrastructure' which Clinton had promised, as well.

bush_cheney2004 · November 9, 2016

1 hour ago, Argus said:

How were those who already had 'affordable' health care screwed? Yes, there were going to be large premium raises but the vast majority of those would be hugely offset by subsidies.

No, many lost access to any private insurance at any price. Others saw there premiums double without any increase in subsidies or disqualified income levels. Obama (and by extension Clinton) destroyed an existing, affordable insurance product to benefit others. The Supreme Court ruled the penalty as a new tax, forcing Americans to buy insurance or pay the tax. Medical device and pharma markets were also distorted by new ACA taxes.

bush_cheney2004 · November 9, 2016

Where were all the celebs last night for Clinton ? Why didn't they come out and stand with all those Clinton supporters in NYC ?

Clinton just sent Podesta to tell them to all go home for the night....pathetic.

Argus · November 9, 2016

10 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

No, many lost access to any private insurance at any price. Others saw there premiums double without any increase in subsidies or disqualified income levels. Obama (and by extension Clinton) destroyed an existing, affordable insurance product to benefit others. The Supreme Court ruled the penalty as a new tax, forcing Americans to buy insurance or pay the tax. Medical device and pharma markets were also distorted by new ACA taxes.

Your whole system has been distorted by bribery and corruption for some years. As a conservative I find it appalling that you pay so much more as a nation than anyone else, but get health outcomes which in most international studies come in about 20th or 30th place. That's gross inefficiency.

bush_cheney2004 · November 9, 2016

Just now, Argus said:

Your whole system has been distorted by bribery and corruption for some years. As a conservative I find it appalling that you pay so much more as a nation than anyone else, but get health outcomes which in most international studies come in about 20th or 30th place. That's gross inefficiency.

Health care is a business, not a human right...not even in Canada. Obamacare messed with a lot of people who were fine with what they had.

Clinton paid the price.

GostHacked · November 9, 2016

As a Canadian, I am glad Trump won. Once the US hits rock bottom it can start to turn around, git 'er dun!

OftenWrong · November 9, 2016

Wonder how the Brits are feeling these days, after their parliament vehemently insulted and nearly banned Donald Trump. No doubt they are polishing their tongues before the major ass licking begins.

Wilber · November 9, 2016

17 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Health care is a business, not a human right...not even in Canada. Obamacare messed with a lot of people who were fine with what they had.

Clinton paid the price.

You mean the ones who had something to be fine about.

Quote

A 2003 Gallup poll found 25% of Americans are either "very" or "somewhat" satisfied with "the availability of affordable healthcare in the nation", versus 50% of those in the UK and 57% of Canadians. Those "very dissatisfied" made up 44% of Americans, 25% of respondents of Britons, and 17% of Canadians. Regarding quality, 48% of Americans, 52% of Canadians, and 42% of Britons say they are satisfied.^[23]

bush_cheney2004 · November 9, 2016

3 minutes ago, Wilber said:

You mean the ones who had something to be fine about.

That's exactly what I mean....Obama and the Democrats punished people to help others. Bad way to go about it.

My own Democratic governor publicly declared that the Affordable Care Act was no longer affordable.

Edited November 9, 2016 by bush_cheney2004

Hal 9000 · November 9, 2016

39 minutes ago, Argus said:

Your whole system has been distorted by bribery and corruption for some years. As a conservative I find it appalling that you pay so much more as a nation than anyone else, but get health outcomes which in most international studies come in about 20th or 30th place. That's gross inefficiency.

Lets not pretend that we have "free" healthcare in Canada.

sharkman · November 9, 2016

And just to show what a shrewd business man Trump is, he spent about $5 per vote to win this election, while Clinton was at about $10 per vote.

On the nonsense that the media coverage was fair, because FOX!! Give me a break. First of all, they were heavily critical when he made gaffs, etc. Second, they certainly did not think everything he did was genius as Argus thinks. And third, one Fox channel does not provide balance to CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC and reams of newspapers and news sites. Get real. One report I heard was that journalists felt that Trump was so awful that they felt justified in not trying to be objective when reporting on him, which is what news reporting is supposed to be.

That's why I love this win so much. On top of the MSM bias, you have wiki leaks showing that they were actually colluding with the Clinton team, giving them questions ahead of the debates, and DOJ insiders giving them leaks about what might be coming. Then you have Loretta Lynch meeting with Bill Clinton while his wife was being investigated by the DOJ, sneaking onto his plane while it's on the tarmac to try to hide the appointment. And celebrities telling the public how to vote. In your face Madonna!

TimG · November 9, 2016

538 has an excellent editorial about small shifts in votes:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-a-difference-2-percentage-points-makes/

He points out that is 1 voter in 100 switched their vote to Hillary the narrative of last night would be completely different (he even provided the predictable narrative if the night had unfolded in favour of Hillary).

The point is we should not be making grand narratives from what was fundamentally a fluke that may not have been repeated if the election was held on a different day.

Trump won. He is prez and has a license to implement his vision. But it is worth remembering how close the election was.

Edited November 9, 2016 by TimG

OftenWrong · November 9, 2016

8 minutes ago, TimG said:

Trump won. He is prez and has a license to implement his vision. But it is worth remembering how close the election was

Yes quite true. But even the fact that it was close is astounding, given how obviously the system is rigged.

TimG · November 9, 2016

Just now, OftenWrong said:

Yes quite true. But even the fact that it was close is astounding, given how obviously the system is rigged.

The system is not rigged. That is a delusional fantasy. Trump had the MSM against him but he had the alt-Right media backing him up 100% while dumping on his opponent 24x7.

bush_cheney2004 · November 9, 2016

15 minutes ago, TimG said:

538 has an excellent editorial about small shifts in votes:

538 is just trying to cover their ass on missing the call like so many others.

TimG · November 9, 2016

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

538 is just trying to cover their ass on missing the call like so many others.

They did not miss any call. They stated quite clearly that the difference in polls was within the margin of error can Trump could win. They caught crap because they did not go for the nonsense that Hillary had a 99% chance of winning.

Also, they don't make predictions. The provide probability distributions. There is a difference.

bush_cheney2004 · November 9, 2016

Just now, TimG said:

They did not miss any call. They stated quite clearly that the difference in polls was within the margin of error can Trump could win. They caught crap because they did not go for the nonsense that Hillary had a 99% chance of winning.

Also, they don't make predictions. The provide probability distributions. There is a difference.

Sure they did...we watched them change as the night went on. They were like a meteorologist telling me there is a 90% chance of rain...after it has started raining.