Terror the problem, not Islamophobia

[eyeball]

Your opinion.

As I understand it, Conservatism seeks to reduces the size and influence of government while Socialism wants the opposite.

Was this determined in post revolutionary France when the terms right and left were coined?

Also, as I mentioned, the political spectrum is a circle with Hitler and Stalin shaking hands on the far side of true liberalism/centrism.

That's your opinion.

But, hey what's in a word when carrying an AK-47?

Letters.

[Argus]

You didn't click the link? It says:

"At the Pew Research Center, we’ve been asking questions related to extremism on our international surveys for over a decade, and what we’ve generally found among Muslim publics is that support for extremism is low, while concerns about it are high."

I did click the link and it was very clear they were speaking about suicide bombs and terrorism, not about the extreme and retrograde social beliefs inherent within Islam.

[DogOnPorch]

That's your opinion.

There may not be much difference between The White House and The Hall of People if we count their windows.

Edited January 3, 2016 by DogOnPorch

[DogOnPorch]

I did click the link and it was very clear they were speaking about suicide bombs and terrorism, not about the extreme and retrograde social beliefs inherent within Islam.

The European Union has come out with some statistics that might be interesting to you.

http://fra.europa.eu/en/vaw-survey-results

[eyeball]

There may not be much difference between The White House and The Hall of People if we count their windows.

Ah, so it's someone else's opinion. Your earlier notion that the political spectrum is a circle (a rainbow you said), doesn't mesh with this diagram of a line with two extreme ends simply brought close together. Another thing your line of reasoning doesn't square with is the oft stated argument from right-wingers and conservatives that Hitler was a lefty. The bandwidth that has been expended by conservatives trying to put as much distance between the right-wing and Hitler is legendary.

I think dictatorships like parliaments, whether they're communist or capitalist also have a right wing and and left wing assembled on either side of them. An establishment of privileged powerful elites on the one hand, the right, and everyone else on the other, the left. The right seeks to conserve the status quo, which includes it's privileges and the left seeks to liberalize it. It's blatantly obvious why the right loves authority. Why conservatives are so determined to associate themselves with the right is a bit of mystery. The fact libertarians count themselves as right-wingers in this sense makes the whole melange even more bizarre.

Maybe the first political parties took on names that more closely matched the definitions they wanted to emulate but somewhere along the line all the spinning and weaving got bollocksed up. Is it simply a matter of loyalty to a brand name or are they actually trying to convey an image? By rights, if conserving things is what really piques a conservative's interest they should be amongst the most natural environmentalists on the planet...Not.

If you're trying to tell me conservatives are illiberal you'll get no argument from me. I'm simply saying Islamic terrorists are amongst the most illiberal people on the planet too. I also think conservatives and right-wingers are terribly confused about what they really think they are and more importantly what they actually stand for.

[WestCanMan]

Where conservatism is blackest.

If you are a liberal then why are you so supportive of the people who are creating least liberal regimes in the world? Is sharia law an example of liberalism?

[eyeball]

If you are a liberal then why are you so supportive of the people who are creating least liberal regimes in the world?

I don't know why I'm with the terrorists. Maybe you should ask Stephan Harper.

Is sharia law an example of liberalism?

No, it's just a thing. How it's applied is clearly very very conservative however. Repellently conservative.

See how the differences fit and misfit when spun this way and that?

It's a tossed political salad with all the fixings and three different sauces.

[WestCanMan]

I don't know why I'm with the terrorists. Maybe you should ask Stephan Harper.

No, it's just a thing. How it's applied is clearly very very conservative however. Repellently conservative.

See how the differences fit and misfit when spun this way and that?

It's a tossed political salad with all the fixings and three different sauces.

I never said you were with terrorists did I? That's just your little straw man eyeball, a lame debating tactic at best.

I'm thinking that you are very naive to be so eager to hustle in tens of thousands of people who come from societies which rigidly oppose the kind of liberal notions you are so fond of. Their utopian society doesn't have Christians, Jews or atheists in it either. Are you one of those? A sikh or buddhist maybe? Guess what, the people coming here did nothing to protect the rights of anyone, and by anyone I mean everyone who isn't a muslim. We are getting a mixture of cowards and people who are complicit with the actions of the IS. I say that they are cowards because theoretically the moderates are the majority right?

Sharia law isn't "conservative", it fits better into a category like "undemocratic" or something. A lot like when the leader of the federal liberals bans a popular opinion from his party.

Do you really feel like you were turning this around? You aren't good at it, that was weak.

[DogOnPorch]

Ah, so it's someone else's opinion.

Yes...I believe it was first year poli-sci.

[CITIZEN_2015]

I haven't commented so far about any of these but last night i met a lady in a bar that her views was a total shock to me (I know her for a decade).

She basically opposing bringing any Syrian refugees to Canada justifying that it is their problem not ours and that muslims wanting to come to Canada with the intention of taking over the world!!!!!!! (last century it was Jews and now the version has changed to muslims) And that there are terror cells inside Canada and anytime now there may be a major terror attack on Canada and that Trudeau is young and inexperience and cannot protect Canada and that governments are corrupt and bringing refugees is political not good intentions that the 2001 attack on world trade center was the work of Bush administration and the CIA!!!!. That immigrants no matter how long they live in Canada it never becomes their homeland so they don't care about Canada and what happens to it!!!! that Canada should stop immigration from everywhere altogether!!!!. That we should take care of our own society (homeless Canadian or the poor in this country) first before worrying about someone else's problems. That these refugees will receive homes whereas our own Canada born people are homeless.

I asked her if she also believes that aliens from other planets are here taking up the human form and wanting to take over our planet but she did not answer!!! I think she thought I am being sarcastic? I am just wondering how many percent of Canadians share her views or even some of their views. My estimate is (and I may be off by a large margin) about one-third of population. Those who voted for Harper past election.

I think the syrian refugees are escaping war and are not terrorists though at the same time believe they should be thoroughly checked out. I think they are the victims of ISIS not part of ISIS. I think not every muslim is a terrorist but they are many terrorists or terrorist supporters among them. I think good 99.9% of those refugees wanting to get away from war and terror and start a new life in Canada and though initially may require assistance the majority of them (not all) in long term will contribute positively to Canada. Yes I think we must stop immigration of fanatics and terrorists to this country but not stop immigration altogether that is why the officers interview the potential immigrants and we have security and health checks in place. Immigration should be mainly from Europe though that must not mean we should stop taking immigrants from certain regions or religions. I think that we belong to a larger society first (the human race) before belonging to Canadian society. though I do agree we should take care of our own as well as other people's problems whose problems are no fault of their own. I don't have clear answers to other parts of her allegations.

Edited January 3, 2016 by CITIZEN_2015

[ironstone]

This woman you talk about believes that the Syrian refugees are not our problem.Why is that so hard to believe?Did Justin Trudeau not state that he believes the war over there "is not our(Canada's)fight"?

My heart does go out to some of these people,but at the same time I also have concerns over security too.Canada has also had one of the highest immigration rates in the world for years under the Conservatives and yet it seems many on the left like to perpetuate the myth that Conservatives are inherently racist.

[eyeball]

I never said you were with terrorists did I? That's just your little straw man eyeball, a lame debating tactic at best.

My apologies in that case. When you asked me "If you are a liberal then why are you so supportive of the people who are creating least liberal regimes in the world?" I thought you meant the terrorists.

So...are you lumping me in with people who are supportive of the dictatorships that much of Muslim world is crumbling under? If so I don't know what sort of fallacy you just committed, one made of digested straw perhaps.

I'm thinking that you are very naive to be so eager to hustle in tens of thousands of people who come from societies which rigidly oppose the kind of liberal notions you are so fond of.

I'm not fond at all with the idea of bringing in more conservatives. Not without a public education program aimed at cultivating a more liberal outlook.

Maybe start teaching poli-sci in grade two...so kids have a better chance of retaining what they learned about getting along in kindergarten.

Their utopian society doesn't have Christians, Jews or atheists in it either.

These refugees don't have a society any more, it crumbled under the chaos we helped create.

Are you one of those? A sikh or buddhist maybe? Guess what, the people coming here did nothing to protect the rights of anyone, and by anyone I mean everyone who isn't a muslim. We are getting a mixture of cowards and people who are complicit with the actions of the IS. I say that they are cowards because theoretically the moderates are the majority right?

This is just a bunch of contemptible drivel.

Sharia law isn't "conservative", it fits better into a category like "undemocratic" or something. A lot like when the leader of the federal liberals bans a popular opinion from his party.

Do you really feel like you were turning this around? You aren't good at it, that was weak.

Edited January 3, 2016 by eyeball

[CITIZEN_2015]

It is hard for me to believe because we belong to human race and if another human (in this case millions of humans) are suffering especially for no fault of their own then it does become our problem unless we want to break our ties with human race declaring we belong to animal kingdom? Racism is among all political spectrum though percentage-wise it is highest among conservatives. That said I deny that I am on the left. And the woman I spoke with was not racist as she wanted to ban immigration for all not just certain races.

Edited January 3, 2016 by CITIZEN_2015

[eyeball]

Yes...I believe it was first year poli-sci.

Hah, citing the Arts now. I could have sworn you were an atheist.

I was logging and fishing when I should have been in Liberal Arts learning poli-sci so I wouldn't know but they actually teach kids that Hitler was a right-winger in the conventional sense? Judging by the the number of people who argue otherwise there either must have been a lot of other drop-outs or they were all asleep the day they taught that.

[eyeball]

Racism is among all political spectrum though percentage-wise it is highest among conservatives. That said I deny that I am on the left.

The more telling thing about your character came through when you said;

I think that we belong to a larger society first (the human race) before belonging to Canadian society.

I can't deny that I have a conservative streak within me and why would I? It's a useful thing to have so long as I keep a lid on it. I'd suggest that woman and the 30% that you're talking about lost their lids.

[WestCanMan]

Citizen there are people all over the world displaced by war, and that's what the Syrians are facing. They are just displaced by war, they're not actually refugees unless they are being persecuted for some reason.

It's true that muslims want their religion to be the only on earth, and it's also true that most other religions have the same agenda. The muslims just have a different strategy and that involves explosions in public areas and beheadings. Mohammed adopted a policy of murdering, beheading people and destroying all other places of worship until nothing was left but Islam. (They say that he "retaliated his way across the desert" but he was the man who wrote the book on fear-mongering and we all know that the winners write the history. The followers of IS are closely following the instructions of the Hadith, it's the 2nd most important text in Islam which basically chronicles the life of Mohammed so that others can follow in his path. The large beard with the shaven moustache is look adopted by those followers.)

Christianity has a different playbook. They go to places with undeveloped economies and give out bread and medicine along with their christian indoctrination. People come for the bread and leave spiritually indebted. Small price to pay right? The missionaries are closely followed by captains of industry with more bread and some cozy factory jobs and the next thing you know the indigenous people have a population explosion, a religion and Nikes.

Monotheism is powerful. Noone wants to think their granny is just wormfood after her last breath. Everyone fears death. It's human nature to want to establish meaningful bonds, especially with more powerful people (or entities). Even educated people with a strong understanding of the known universe & biology can overlook the ridiculous creation theory because their craving for an imaginary friend completely overpowers their intellect.

Islam is not tolerant when it doesn't need to be, and everywhere that Islam shares a border with another culture it's like tectonic plates of human suffering and hatred. Even within Islam, between the different sects it's been that way for 1,000 years. It makes northern Ireland look like a playground. The form of Christianity we see today is quite tolerant, to the point where sikhs and buddhists can build temples & pagodas, worship as they choose and walk around freely in Christian dominated areas.

Look around the world and back in history at the places dominated by muslims and ask yourself if you would want to live there. If you would feel comfortable raising your children there if you worshipped another god or none at all. It would be like raising your children in Yankee Stadium with BoSox shirts on, only the Yankee fans have a sacred text which instructs them to follow in the path of Babe Ruth, and the holy Babe had commanded his followers to conduct beheadings "if necessary".

I think a lot of Canadians feel the pressure to be politically and to assume that all people are basically the same. That part is actually true. (Jews, Christians and muslims are from the exact same gene pool and their religions share most of the exact same entities in their own way). But not all cultures are the same, and since there is so much history proving that Oil and water don't mix why would we just try to repeat this failed experiment? Isn't that the nature of insanity?

[WestCanMan]

It is hard for me to believe because we belong to human race and if another human (in this case millions of humans) are suffering especially for no fault of their own then it does become our problem unless we want to break our ties with human race declaring we belong to animal kingdom? Racism is among all political spectrum though percentage-wise it is highest among conservatives. That said I deny that I am on the left. And the woman I spoke with was not racist as she wanted to ban immigration for all not just certain races.

A race is a visible difference between people. Jews and Muslims are historically of the exact same genetic stock. Culture/religion is the dividing line that you are probably looking for in that instance.

[jacee]

If you are a liberal then why are you so supportive of the people who are creating least liberal regimes in the world?

We're supporting people who are fleeing from those regimes.

Why is this so difficult for some people to grasp!

Is sharia law an example of liberalism?

Sharia law isn't "conservative"

Yes it is very much like Reform conservatism: It's in part about men imposing restrictions on women ... what they can do with their own bodies ... abortion, niqabs for example.

.

[WestCanMan]

My apologies in that case. When you asked me "If you are a liberal then why are you so supportive of the people who are creating least liberal regimes in the world?" I thought you meant the terrorists.

So...are you lumping me in with people who are supportive of the dictatorships that much of Muslim world is crumbling under? If so I don't know what sort of fallacy you just committed, one made of digested straw perhaps.

I'm not fond at all with the idea of bringing in more conservatives. Not without a public education program aimed at cultivating a more liberal outlook.

Maybe start teaching poli-sci in grade two...so kids have a better chance of retaining what they learned about getting along in kindergarten.

These refugees don't have a society any more, it crumbled under the chaos we helped create.

This is just a bunch of contemptible drivel.

Damn magic mouse, I just lost my whole reply and now I have to do it agin.

Coles notes:

Poli-sci doesn't trump monotheism.

Public school system isn't the only choice for people who want don't want their children to adopt to Canadian ideals.

:Irocksmiley:

[WestCanMan]

We're supporting people who are fleeing from those regimes.

Why is this so difficult for some people to grasp!

Why are they fleeing? Moderate muslims are the majority right?

[CITIZEN_2015]

Why are they fleeing? Moderate muslims are the majority right?

In those regions It is not a democracy in which the majority rules. The minority (the one who is violent the most) takes over and rule over the majority by force and fear and terror even. Also with regard to your other post I think that Jews and Arabs are of same genetic stock not Jews and Muslims.

Some are justifying that since there are so many tens of millions of people displaced or refugees then we should do nothing because no matter how many we can take it wouldn't make any difference but I say that we should do our share and I think by taking in selected 25000 we fully live up to our human responsibilities. By the same token I do know there are millions of children starving or suffering in the world but we as individuals cannot sponsor all those millions but collectively if we contribute for the price of a coffee a day we can sponsor a child and save a life and do our individual part in that regards. Doing nothing using the excuse that there are just too many IS NOT an accepted excuse.

http://www.worldvision.ca/

https://www.ccfcanada.ca/ways-to-give?gclid=CJOP0_eujsoCFcETHwodm7gC_A

Do your part and if we all do OUR part in rich countries then we end starvation and suffering. Regretfully overwhelming majority don't wish to even contribute for the price of a coffee a day even though they spend thousands on travelling vacation, entertainments. etc. It is not my problem they say!!!!!! That is the sad reality.

The majority of The second generation of muslim immigrants likely all would become as westernized as any other born Canadian so I really don't fear a cultural revolution or a take over by some 25000 new arrivals (who btw are escaping extremism and fanatism) in a population of 33 million. In a decade or two You will see most of them in bars trying to pick up ladies than in mosques praying I bet.

Edited January 3, 2016 by CITIZEN_2015

[Big Guy]

I believe that Canada has contributed to the number of refugees produced by our military actions in the Middle East. I also believe that if you broke it you have to fix it. We helped to "broke" it so we have an obligation to help to "fix" it.

The idea of accepting people from outside our country is not an inconvenience or a burden - it is a necessity. We have a fertility rate of 1.61 (We need at least 2.0) which means that without immigration we would eventually cease to exist. We have plenty of room for more young people and besides, we need them paying into our pension plans.

As to security, If Islam was indeed a religion of violence and terror the we non-Muslims will not be around for very long. We have done OK for a very, very long time.

I have read no serious solutions from those who sincerely believe in the Muslim terrorist bogey man and consequently write off those complaints as unhappy people looking to complain about something and Muslims are a convenient target.

שיהיה לך יום טוב

Edited January 3, 2016 by Big Guy

[Argus]

It is hard for me to believe because we belong to human race and if another human (in this case millions of humans) are suffering especially for no fault of their own then it does become our problem

Are you proposing we bring millions of Arabs over here, then? If we did, then in all likelihood the problems of religious extremism in the middle east would appear here in Canada, as well.

There was a survey taken a few years back, that I recall, where more than 50% of Canadians said we should halt all immigration for a while, to give the mass of newcomers we have now time to integrate into Canada. It has nothing to do with racism. It has to do with wanting to preserve social cohesion.

[Argus]

Yes it is very much like Reform conservatism: It's in part about men imposing restrictions on women ... what they can do with their own bodies ... abortion, niqabs for example

But you are a zealous supporter of that, so what's the problem?

[Argus]

The majority of The second generation of muslim immigrants likely all would become as westernized as any other born Canadian so I really don't fear a cultural revolution or a

The evidence says you're wrong. Most of the Toronto 19 were the second generation. The faith liberals have that the generation born in Canada will grow up being just like everyone else here is quaint, and completely ignores the place religion places in ones cultural value set. Because progressives don't believe in religion, and don't take it seriously, they simply cannot comprehend how people born in Canada, yet raised with an extremely conservative, even rigid and extremist religious beliefs (by our standards) wouldn't simply ignore them the way progressives ignore whatever religion they were born to.