Hal 9000 Posted December 3, 2015 Report Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) "Gun culture" is the problem in the US, victim culture is. Nearly every person who has done this has claimed victim status. I suspect we'll find out this person(s), felt they were a victim of something. Edited December 4, 2015 by Hal 9000 Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Big Guy Posted December 4, 2015 Author Report Posted December 4, 2015 The Quebec government just passed legislation to create a Quebec gun registry. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
ReeferMadness Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 As are the ownership of standard capacity mags in California.....and owning non-neutered (bullet button) AR-15s..........but then, the ownership of AK-47s in France is prohibited...... The comparisons between Canada and California/France are spurious. France may have strong gun laws but not all of Europe does and borders are practically non-existent. Apparently, Belgium had very liberal gun laws not that long ago. Similarly, if you can buy weapons in, say, Arizona, nothing stops you from taking them to California. Gun laws have to be backed up by some sort of reasonable border patrols in order to be effective. Australia might be a better example. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Derek 2.0 Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 The comparisons between Canada and California/France are spurious. France may have strong gun laws but not all of Europe does and borders are practically non-existent. Apparently, Belgium had very liberal gun laws not that long ago. Similarly, if you can buy weapons in, say, Arizona, nothing stops you from taking them to California. Gun laws have to be backed up by some sort of reasonable border patrols in order to be effective. Australia might be a better example. They're hardly spurious, they demonstrate despite gun laws criminals still get firearms.......In the case of the French attackers, obtaining their guns from the Eastern Europe black market.....in California, from what I've seen in the media, they purchased their firearms from a store several blocks away from where they lived......and removed the famed California bullet button.......going forward still, the point is mooted with the advent of 3D technology, which allows anyone with a printer to make their own (notice where this crime was committed).......including AR-15s. In this example though, I feel a far larger death toll was avoided by simple luck, in that the attacker screwed up the wiring on his IED, which if detonated when the crowds were rushing out as LEO were rushing in could have been devastating. Quote
Moonlight Graham Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 Sure, and the advent of 3-D technology will make said numbers further moot.........maybe, addressing the actual problems that result in violence is the way forward......be that mental health, poverty, education etc etc..... The talk of "gun control" in the United States only results in one thing: Further gun and ammo sales. Then innocent Americans will continue to be murdered at insanely high rates compared to the rest of the developed world. Countries like UK, France, Germany, Canada etc. aren't even within 10 miles of the US firearm murder stats. I'm sorry but mental health and poverty aren't the root causes of the problem. Wanting to own guns and being allowed to is. The "right" to own machines designed to kill other humans is easily one of the dumbest "human rights" in the history of mankind. The stats prove my point. Worse are the many millions of baby-men with power fantasies who want to own these killing machines like they're toys, because they're "cool" or make them feel tough. Just stick to playing Call of Duty. It's virtually all men doing these shootings. Tens of millions of men need to grow up, let go of the murder toys, and join the civilized world. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Wilber Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 The reaction in the US demonstrates the lunacy of going that route. Every time one of these massacres happens, their reaction to the possibility something might actually be done about them causes people to go out and make the problem worse. The shear volume of firearms in the US and their easy access is a problem for us and many other countries because the US is the main source of illegal firearms entering those countries. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Rue Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 This was not a hand gun control issue or even a long gun registration issue. The perpetrators as is now known are from Pakistan. They went to Saudi Arabia. They met regularly with 6 other men of Middle East profile as their neighbor now reports and says he did not act on for fear of being called a racist profiler. There house was full of bombs. Its perpetrators wore flak gear and had automatic weapons that shot rapid fire rounds. Their child was dropped off at their grandparents. Bombs they placed failed to go off. There is evidence they were preparing to put a message on You Tube. Some of you want to turn this into a gun control issue give me a break. This is an issue of terrorists. No amount of gun control will stop terrorists. None. Zero. You want to couch this is a gun control issue and pretend if its hard to buy guns terrorists won't attack? What a silly and absurd way to try spin terrorism as a phenomena that is controllable by gun laws. Nonsense. The only thing more nonsensical than trying to turn this into a gun control issue is to try typecast this incident as a disgruntled employee. Political correctness my asp. Oooh let's not mention the fact these individuals were devout Muslim and there may be a link. Let's pretend its just a gun control incident. This is an act of pre-meditated, carefully planned mass terror. Period. The Muslim link will come out. Whether these two acted alone or were inspired by home grown Muslim terrorists or overseas Muslim terrorists will come out. Someone blows up an abortion clinic in the name of Christianity its religious terrorism and essential to understanding the crime is the ideology of the extremist and what fueled him. Was it an isolated non religious incident or series of incidents, was it a religious belief learned or acquired in a certain movement? Now you want to beat around the Muslim bush on this? Why? Gun control. Right. Terrorism poof goes away and avoided as a topic? No thanks. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 ...The shear volume of firearms in the US and their easy access is a problem for us and many other countries because the US is the main source of illegal firearms entering those countries. Correct...it is your problem...please control your own borders instead of worrying about my constitutional right to own and bear firearms. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Argus Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Well, there seems little doubt now, if there ever was one, that this is more Islamic terrorism inspired by ISIS. Both shooters were Pakistanis, and Pakistan has become one of the centres of Islamic extremism and terrorism in the world, and CNN says one of them publicly pledged allegiance to ISIS before her death. It is worth noting that Pakistan is one of Canada's biggest source countries for immigration... http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/california-shooter-pledged-allegiance-to-islamic-state-cnn/article27599255/ Edited December 4, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Wilber Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 Correct...it is your problem...please control your own borders instead of worrying about my constitutional right to own and bear firearms. Yes, it's the world's misfortune that your country's knee jerk reaction to these massacres fits Einsteins definition of insanity perfectly. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 Yes, it's the world's misfortune that your country's knee jerk reaction to these massacres fits Einsteins definition of insanity perfectly. That's why Albert Einstein emigrated to the United States instead of Canada. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Wilber Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 This was not a hand gun control issue or even a long gun registration issue. The perpetrators as is now known are from Pakistan. They went to Saudi Arabia. They met regularly with 6 other men of Middle East profile as their neighbor now reports and says he did not act on for fear of being called a racist profiler. There house was full of bombs. Its perpetrators wore flak gear and had automatic weapons that shot rapid fire rounds. Their child was dropped off at their grandparents. Bombs they placed failed to go off. There is evidence they were preparing to put a message on You Tube. Some of you want to turn this into a gun control issue give me a break. This is an issue of terrorists. No amount of gun control will stop terrorists. None. Zero. You want to couch this is a gun control issue and pretend if its hard to buy guns terrorists won't attack? What a silly and absurd way to try spin terrorism as a phenomena that is controllable by gun laws. Nonsense. The only thing more nonsensical than trying to turn this into a gun control issue is to try typecast this incident as a disgruntled employee. Political correctness my asp. Oooh let's not mention the fact these individuals were devout Muslim and there may be a link. Let's pretend its just a gun control incident. This is an act of pre-meditated, carefully planned mass terror. Period. The Muslim link will come out. Whether these two acted alone or were inspired by home grown Muslim terrorists or overseas Muslim terrorists will come out. Someone blows up an abortion clinic in the name of Christianity its religious terrorism and essential to understanding the crime is the ideology of the extremist and what fueled him. Was it an isolated non religious incident or series of incidents, was it a religious belief learned or acquired in a certain movement? Now you want to beat around the Muslim bush on this? Why? Gun control. Right. Terrorism poof goes away and avoided as a topic? No thanks. No thought to the fact the US gives people like this (even ones on FBI watch lists) unrestricted access to just about any kind of firearm they want. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Black Dog Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 Well, there seems little doubt now, if there ever was one, that this is more Islamic terrorism inspired by ISIS. Both shooters were Pakistanis, and Pakistan has become one of the centres of Islamic extremism and terrorism in the world, and CNN says one of them publicly pledged allegiance to ISIS before her death. It is worth noting that Pakistan is one of Canada's biggest source countries for immigration... http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/california-shooter-pledged-allegiance-to-islamic-state-cnn/article27599255/ And? Quote
Argus Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 And? I was just alerting the progressives that it's time to switch tactics and start talking about mental health and disenfranchised youth instead of evil gun owners and the NRA. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Derek 2.0 Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 I was just alerting the progressives that it's time to switch tactics and start talking about mental health and disenfranchised youth instead of evil gun owners and the NRA. Right, the attacker's wife didn't declare her allegiance to the NRA during the attacks............mental health and upset youth aside, in this example, I'd look to the intelligence failures, as its been reported, the FBI was investigating several subjects the attacker was in contact with online......but didn't follow-up on the attacker himself. Quote
Wilber Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 Right, the attacker's wife didn't declare her allegiance to the NRA during the attacks............mental health and upset youth aside, in this example, I'd look to the intelligence failures, as its been reported, the FBI was investigating several subjects the attacker was in contact with online......but didn't follow-up on the attacker himself. Would it matter? "Membership in a terrorist organization does not prohibit a person from possessing firearms or explosives under current federal law," the Government Accountability Office concluded in 2010. The law prohibits felons, fugitives, drug addicts and domestic abusers from purchasing a firearm in the United States. But people on the FBI's consolidated terrorist watchlist — typically placed there when there is "reasonable suspicion" that they are a known or suspected terrorist — can freely purchase handguns or assault-style rifles. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Black Dog Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 I was just alerting the progressives that it's time to switch tactics and start talking about mental health and disenfranchised youth instead of evil gun owners and the NRA. You talk like all these issues are completely separate and there's never any overlap. In other words, you talk a lot of bollocks. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 Would it matter? Why not? The better question, if a terror suspect is banned from flying based on evidence the US Government has.......why are they on the streets? Quote
Wilber Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) The more things never change, the more they stay the same. http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/04/day-after-san-bernardino-republicans-line-up-to-crush-gun-control-efforts Edited December 4, 2015 by Wilber Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 The more things never change, the more they stay the same. Yes...constitutional rights are kinda like that. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 I'll venture a guess that Merikans will be rushing out to buy even more guns in the wake if San Bernardino. Gotta get set up for the next one ya know. Quote
Wilber Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Why not? The better question, if a terror suspect is banned from flying based on evidence the US Government has.......why are they on the streets? Because they haven't broken any laws yet. You can't put people in jail on suspicion alone, it's unconstitutional you know. Unless you have a place like Gitmo. Edited December 4, 2015 by Wilber Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Derek 2.0 Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 Because they haven't broken any laws yet. You can't put people in jail on suspicion alone, it's unconstitutional you know. Right, and so is taking away the 2nd Amendment rights of Americans....... Quote
Wilber Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 Yes...constitutional rights are kinda like that. Ya, we know, In America, the freedom to own gun overrides any other right. Like freedom of movement. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Wilber Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 Right, and so is taking away the 2nd Amendment rights of Americans....... So you agree with arming people who aren't allowed to fly. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
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