bush_cheney2004 Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 Ya, we know, In America, the freedom to own gun overrides any other right. Like freedom of movement. No, it is just one of several rights. You can't take away those rights without due process...even for the no-fly list. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 No, it is just one of several rights. You can't take away those rights without due process...even for the no-fly list. You think there is some sort of due process around the no fly list? Quote
Boges Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 Alright so they had legally owned firearms. Murika sucks for that right? Terrorists somehow got AK-47's into Paris though right? Terrorists are gonna terrorize, laws can't exactly stop them, intelligence can. What about the Pipe bombs? http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2015/12/04/gunwoman-in-california-shooting-pledged-allegiance-to-isis-official-says.html Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 Even drug dealing Canadian diplomats can legally buy guns in the USA. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Wilber Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 No, it is just one of several rights. You can't take away those rights without due process...even for the no-fly list.We aren't really speaking of rights here, we are speaking of the law. There are plenty of things Congress could do regarding firearms that wouldn't violate the Constitution. The second amendment argument it bogus. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Boges Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 You think there is some sort of due process around the no fly list? That's not what he's saying. In Murika you can't bar someone from getting a firearm just because they're on a No Fly List. The right is absolute. I think that's pretty nutty, but hey Murika! It's not like we Canadians can change their freedoms. Quote
Wilber Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 Alright so they had legally owned firearms. Murika sucks for that right? Terrorists somehow got AK-47's into Paris though right? Terrorists are gonna terrorize, laws can't exactly stop them, intelligence can. What about the Pipe bombs? http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2015/12/04/gunwoman-in-california-shooting-pledged-allegiance-to-isis-official-says.html So you believe there should be no restrictions on gun ownership or the possession of explosives? Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Black Dog Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Alright so they had legally owned firearms. Murika sucks for that right? Terrorists somehow got AK-47's into Paris though right? Terrorists are gonna terrorize, laws can't exactly stop them, intelligence can. What about the Pipe bombs? http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2015/12/04/gunwoman-in-california-shooting-pledged-allegiance-to-isis-official-says.html I don't understand why their motivations and religious background mean they can't be talked about in the broader context of America's gun violence problem. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold used pipe bombs too... Edited December 4, 2015 by Black Dog Quote
Boges Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 So you believe there should be no restrictions on gun ownership or the possession of explosives? No, but as we know from the Bostom Bomber thing, you can make explosives with widely available consumer products. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 So you agree with arming people who aren't allowed to fly. No, I'm opposed to creating laws that allow a policing agency to take away rights by putting a person on a list.......of the "no fly list" how many are actually Americans? (A non-American citizen or permanent resident can't lawfully purchase firearms or ammo in the United States). Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 That's not what he's saying. In Murika you can't bar someone from getting a firearm just because they're on a No Fly List. The right is absolute. I think that's pretty nutty, but hey Murika! It's not like we Canadians can change their freedoms. Correct....flying on commercial aircraft is not a right...not even in KanaDUH. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Wilber Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) No, I'm opposed to creating laws that allow a policing agency to take away rights by putting a person on a list.......of the "no fly list" how many are actually Americans? (A non-American citizen or permanent resident can't lawfully purchase firearms or ammo in the United States).At least 2000. Newsweek Say youre on the governments terrorist watch list and want to buy a gun. No problem, according to FBI data released last year: From 2004 to 2014, more than 2,000 people listed as known or suspected terrorists bought a handgun, sports rifle or assault weapon.[/size] "Membership in a terrorist organization does not prohibit a person from possessing firearms or explosives under current federal law," the Government Accountability Office also reported in 2010. The GAO said it did not have data on how many firearms purchases were completed because dealers are not required to submit that information to the FBI. In the wake of the latest mass shooting incident, President Barack Obama called attention to a hole in gun check procedures that allow as many as a million people whose names are on no-fly or terrorist watch lists to buy guns. Forbes A 2010 GAO report found: From February 2004 through February 2010, FBI data show that individuals on the terrorist watchlist were involved in firearm or explosives background checks 1,228 times; 1,119 (about 91 percent) of these transactions were allowed to proceed because no prohibiting information was foundsuch as felony convictions, illegal immigrant status, or other disqualifying factorsand 109 of the transactions were denied. Edited December 4, 2015 by Charles Anthony reduced font Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
On Guard for Thee Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 No, I'm opposed to creating laws that allow a policing agency to take away rights by putting a person on a list.......of the "no fly list" how many are actually Americans? (A non-American citizen or permanent resident can't lawfully purchase firearms or ammo in the United States).You certainly could when I was down there with my boat. Only thing that stopped me was my DL at the time didn't have my picture on it, else I could have bought anything in the shop. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 At least 2000 up to 2010, who knows how many since then. Could be 200,000.....doesn't matter....they have gun rights. They can even buy their own damn aircraft...amazing...huh !? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Derek 2.0 Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 At least 2000 up to 2010, who knows how many since then. So within a decade, suspected terrorists have bought upwards of 2000 firearms.........in a country with 300 million firearms.......perspective. How many of said legal purchases by suspected terrorists have been used in actual terror/criminal acts? Quote
Boges Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 I think in criticizing gun law in the wake of mass shootings, you should look to see if laws being proposes would have prevented the crime. I don't think this shooting passes that sniff test. Many do however. Quote
Wilber Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 Could be 200,000.....doesn't matter....they have gun rights. They can even buy their own damn aircraft...amazing...huh !?Can they buy an aircraft and operate it? What is to stop them from flying that into a building? Apparently it is OK for them to shoot up anything as long as it isn't an aircraft. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Derek 2.0 Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 Could be 200,000.....doesn't matter....they have gun rights. They can even buy their own damn aircraft...amazing...huh !? And diesel, fertilizers, acetone, black powder, crockpots, plumbing materials, remote controlled cars etc.......... Quote
Wilber Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 So within a decade, suspected terrorists have bought upwards of 2000 firearms.........in a country with 300 million firearms.......perspective. How many of said legal purchases by suspected terrorists have been used in actual terror/criminal acts? WTF are you trying to justify here? Why have lists at all then, just let them do their thing and figure it out after. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Can they buy an aircraft and operate it? What is to stop them from flying that into a building? Apparently it is OK for them to shoot up anything as long as it isn't an aircraft. Yes, subject to the exact same licensing, certifications, and insurance laws as non gun owners. Even the 9/11 terrorists had to spend some time in the simulator. Edited December 4, 2015 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Derek 2.0 Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 WTF are you trying to justify here? Why have lists at all then, just let them do their thing and figure it out after. The reason why the Republicans voted down a proposed law that would allow the State to take away a citizens inalienable rights because they were put on a list.......a process that doesn't involve due process.......how many Americans are on the "no fly list"? Do they get a letter sent out from the FBI? Is there a process to clear their name? How many don't have any idea they are on said list? Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 Yes, subject to the exact same licensing, certifications, and insurance laws as non gun owners. Even the 9/11 terrorists had to spend some time in the simulator. Apparently they asked not to waste a lot of simulator time on landing practice. Quote
Wilber Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 Yes, subject to the exact same licensing, certifications, and insurance laws as non gun owners. Even the 9/11 terrorists had to spend some time in the simulator. Really, do you honestly believe the FAA is going to license a transport aircraft and allow someone to operate it who isn't allowed on a commercial flight? If so, you are even more screwed up than I thought. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Wilber Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 The reason why the Republicans voted down a proposed law that would allow the State to take away a citizens inalienable rights because they were put on a list.......a process that doesn't involve due process.......how many Americans are on the "no fly list"? Do they get a letter sent out from the FBI? Is there a process to clear their name? How many don't have any idea they are on said list?Whatever, if it turns out this guy or his wife were on a list, this one is on those assholes, and so are any others in the future. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Derek 2.0 Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 Whatever, if it turns out this guy or his wife were on a list, this one is on those assholes, and so are any others in the future. He wasn't, but he was communicating with terror suspects the FBI is investigating.......his wife was here on a marriage Visa. Quote
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