Islamophobia in Canada

[DogOnPorch]

So yes, at least one. I bet you'd find more if you looked.

I already had before posting. I wanted you to look...and you had to look. And one of your examples was a human chain to protect tourists who may or may not be Christian. Likely not.

[DogOnPorch]

So you're flogging Christianity now are you? Best of luck.

Some aspects of Christianity are very admirable. The music, for one. No other cult has contributed so much to music as Christianity.

Typical...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E896vJ98Qf4

...they burned witches and heretics to that ol' ditty.

[dialamah]

I already had before posting. I wanted you to look...and you had to look. And one of your examples was a human chain to protect tourists who may or may not be Christian. Likely not.

I posted that stuff before I saw your question about Mosques opening their doors to Christians. That post was about Muslims helping others, not *just other Muslims*.

I posted about an Islamic shrine in Iraq hosting Christians who are fleeing from ISIS in response to your question about Mosques. What is your example?

Edited December 15, 2015 by dialamah

[DogOnPorch]

I posted that stuff before I saw your question about Mosques opening their doors to Christians. That post was about Muslims helping others, not *just other Muslims*.

I posted about an Islamic shrine in Iraq hosting Christians who are fleeing from ISIS in response to your question about Mosques. What is your example?

The entire Middle East used to be Christian right-up until the 7th century. Then something happened. Care to take a guess what?

[On Guard for Thee]

I prefer the Bob Marley versions.

[DogOnPorch]

I prefer the Bob Marley versions.

Bob was a very spiritual man. Jah and Jesus.

But, as you might not know, A Mighty Fortress Is Our God is the "battle hymn" of the Lutheran Church....watch out witches.

Edited December 15, 2015 by DogOnPorch

[dialamah]

The entire Middle East used to be Christian right-up until the 7th century. Then something happened. Care to take a guess what?

The entire continent of North America used to be peopled by brown people with black hair, until the 1800s. Then something happened. Care to take a guess what?

[-1=e^ipi]

so that the non-believers did not have to provide soldier's for Muhammeds wars.

More like the kuffar were banned from serving in the military, thus had less options for employment. By this logic the Jews in Nazi Germany were advantaged by the fact that Germany didn't let them serve in the military.

It caused resentment among Muslims, who questioned why non-believers shouldn't pay the same taxes Muslims paid, and so the Jizya was expanded to all non-believers.

The Jizya is not the same thing as Zakat and the amount paid is quite different. For low income people, Jizya is generally more than Zakat, not to mention that Muslims with an income below the Nisab level do not have to pay Zakat and can even benefit from Zakat. There were some historical cases where Jizya was less for very wealthy people than Zakat. However, for the vast majority of people, the Islamic tax system created a strong financial incentive for people to convert to Islam.

No idea how or where its implemented now.

Northern Iraq, Eastern Syria, Northern Nigeria, Southern Somalia, etc.

Even in moderate Malaysia, muslims get a tax rebate for Zakat. Thus in effect an additional tax is levied on Kuffar as they cannot claim this rebate even if they donate to charity.

[-1=e^ipi]

Can you be more specific about what a "Liberal Muslim" would look like?

I think Raif Badawi and Tarek Fatah would classify as liberal muslims.

Here are three questions:

Do they support freedom of speech, including the depiction of the prophet Mohamed?

Do they think that homosexuality should not be criminalized?

Do they think that it should be legal to convert away from Islam?

If it is no to either of these, they aren't liberal muslims.

[-1=e^ipi]

The entire continent of North America used to be peopled by brown people with black hair, until the 1800s.

Ojibwe mitochondria DNA may suggest otherwise.

Also, the vikings came to North America 1000 years ago.

[Argus]

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

The back and forth discussion on the interpretation of the Koran vs the Bible is pointless and silly. It doesn't matter a damn how YOU interpret either of them. All that matters is how believers interpret them. So far, historically, the believers of Islam have interpreted their religion in ways which are, for the most part, inimical to western democratic values. There are dozens of Muslim states and not one has a respect for freedom or individuality which comes even close to ours. Islamic values are enforced against all in those countries, and I have observed no particular protest or outcry from the populations with regard to that, and no great desire to change. Instead, the only significant opposition to these non-democratic governments come from factions which want an even more zealous enforcement of Islamic laws.

This is fundamentally obvious to all ordinary people. Except, of course, for insipid progressives, whose zealous determination to enforce their group mindthink that all cultures/religions/values are of identical worth leads them to demonize all who express a value judgement. This sanctimonious, small-minded cadre of unctuous airheads continually seek to close down conversations with endless personal attacks on those who refuse to kowtow to their narrow minded thinking. Which of course, is the point of this topic to begin with. It's designed to attack those who question the violently medieval social customs inspired by Islam which are thriving and growing more intense throughout the Muslim world. Progressives don't want Islam discussed. Instead they want to discuss "Islamaphobia" an invented word which they hurl at anyone who dares to make a value judgement on the followers of Islam which is anything other than flattering.

There is no logic, no sense, no intelligence to their position. One can judge those who follow Fascism or Communism by knowing what Fascist and Communist beliefs are. Why is it "permissible" to make judgements based on this but not on the known beliefs of Islam? Because the sniveling wretches of progressivehood say so? This argument about how Islam does not really mean this or does not really mean that is ridiculous given the demonstrated facts of how Muslims live in the countries in which they hold control. Where is the peace and universal brotherhood in these countries? Where is the respect for minorities of any kind, particularly religious minorities? Where is the respect for women, gays or the rule of law other than that of Islamic law? Progressives will trot out individual instances of reasonably acceptable behaviour like a shield to try to cover the vast bulk of what is going on out there but it's a flimsy shield. As they say, we might not know how to define art, but we know it when we see it.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Argus

[dialamah]

Privately, someone asked how my sister came to be a Muslim convert, and I decided to answer here rather than privately.

Over 20 years ago, in her late 30s, she was seeking her God and studying both Christianity and Islam. Both religions do share many teachings, and what tipped Islam in her favor was the way in which the Quran spoke about Christians and Jews. They were also "people of the Book", and were considered an important part of how the Quran and Islam came to be. The Quran taught her that Jews and Christians who were faithful to their own faith had nothing to fear in the last days, that their faith was as legitimate as the Islam faith. This was in contrast to the Christian Bible which teaches that all non-Christians end up in hell/eternal damnation. A few years after converting to Islam in Canada, she met an Egyptian Muslim, married him and has been "living happily ever after" in Eqypt ever since.

But as Argus says: "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? The back and forth discussion on the interpretation of the Koran vs the Bible is pointless and silly. It doesn't matter a damn how YOU interpret either of them. All that matters is how believers interpret them."

For some people it's irrelevant how many peaceful and tolerant Muslims there are in the world, or how many actively work for the betterment of humans, to eliminate oppressive regimes and offer respect and tolerance for all - they just assume that Islam is nothing but a violent, intolerant and backwards religion and that the Muslims who decry such excesses are in the minority or are not 'true Muslims".

Still I'm heartened because it does seem that most people, at least in Canada, recognize the dual nature of religion and do not paint all Muslims with a single broad swipe.

This will be my last post on this thread (is that cheering I hear?) - but from all of us - a non-believer, a converted Muslim, and a Muslim born and raised - we wish everyone a very Merry Christmas.

[DogOnPorch]

The entire continent of North America used to be peopled by brown people with black hair, until the 1800s. Then something happened. Care to take a guess what?

Out East visiting my brother, we are both viewed as native. Out West, we're not....odd that.

That being said, Islam isn't a race of people. It's a cult/religion/political ideology similar to fascism.

Edited December 15, 2015 by DogOnPorch

[DogOnPorch]

I think Raif Badawi and Tarek Fatah would classify as liberal muslims.

Here are three questions:

Do they support freedom of speech, including the depiction of the prophet Mohamed?

Do they think that homosexuality should not be criminalized?

Do they think that it should be legal to convert away from Islam?

If it is no to either of these, they aren't liberal muslims.

Tarek is a good fellow. He is hated by some for not being a True Scotsman.

[DogOnPorch]

The entire continent of North America used to be peopled by brown people with black hair, until the 1800s. Then something happened. Care to take a guess what?

Anyways, as history shows us, Islam was a military force. It invaded and forced conversion at sword-tip. The Covenant of Omar being the set of laws built for the Kaffir living in the Umma.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pact_of_Umar

Edited December 15, 2015 by DogOnPorch

[eyeball]

Hmmmm 1400 years ago.

Yeah, it's about time we taught them a lesson alright. Another couple hundred years should show em'.

[bush_cheney2004]

Genghis Khan and his Mongol armies gave Islam a much bigger ass whupping, before converting to Islam in most Khanates.

Perhaps Muslims had "Mongolphobia".

[DogOnPorch]

Hmmmm 1400 years ago.

Yeah, it's about time we taught them a lesson alright. Another couple hundred years should show em'.

The Umma collapsed in 1918...not so long ago.

[DogOnPorch]

Genghis Khan and his Mongol armies gave Islam a much bigger ass whupping, before converting to Islam in most Khanates.

Perhaps Muslims had "Mongolphobia".

Only Temujin's death saved Europe from his sons.

[eyeball]

So now we're just kicking them while they're down?

Good idea.

[DogOnPorch]

So now we're just kicking them while they're down?

Good idea.

You're free to support Islam.

[bush_cheney2004]

So now we're just kicking them while they're down?

Good idea.

It has been done before....just sayin'.

[DogOnPorch]

It has been done before....just sayin'.

Berlin...Hiroshima...Dresden...

[Argus]

For some people it's irrelevant how many peaceful and tolerant Muslims there are in the world, or how many actively work for the betterment of humans, to eliminate oppressive regimes and offer respect and tolerance for all - they just assume that Islam is nothing but a violent, intolerant and backwards religion and that the Muslims who decry such excesses are in the minority or are not 'true Muslims".

The polls seem to agree with that position. As you've already acknowledged, 62% of Muslims in Pakistan (who believe apostates should be executed) are extremist. The figure for Egypt is 88%. That is far from a universal sentiment among Muslims. Only 14% of Russian Muslims feel that way. But the figures are fairly high throughout the middle east. By your own acceptance that this view makes one an extremist there are hundreds of millions of Muslim extremists in the world. No one suggests this is universal but it is very far from rare, and it is something we need to be wary of, especially when allowing people to come and live here from those regions where extremism is high.

[WestCanMan]

Islam (yes, I know, I'm allowing the continuation of these superficial little games by generalizing) is no different than other religions. Groups who follow Christianity have killed more people in the 20th century than Islam ever did in its history. I don't have the patience to sit here and pick apart your narrow-minded and shallow view of people and history. Not today anyway.

It's a different kind of killing Hudson, when it's christians killing christians. The killing from the Muslims that we are targeting is "Muslims killing every other group or culture they come in contact with specifically because they aren't Muslims."

Where you find evidence of Christians all over the world going around and killing men, women and children just because they aren't christian you have found a good comparison.