Michael Hardner Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Yes, it's possible, but you are still embracing and accepting a political ideology which calls for violence to spread it, and which calls for discriminatory practices and often violence against various people for various reasons. Well, you live in a world where people with clashing values and ideologies have to live together. The American Bill of Rights is a good blueprint for how to make for a diverse society. Free expression, free religion, but actions that violate individual freedom are not tolerated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 The Quran was written by Allah as dictated to Mohammed. This after his nighttime voyage on a winged beast accompanied by the angel Gabriel to the so-called 'furthest mosque' Right...I'm looking at my Qur'an right now and the history appendix clearly explains that in addition to memorization of the Prophet's companions, written recording of the Qur'an began during the Prophet's lifetime. His scribes wrote down the revelations on pieces of leather, bone, and palm leaves, with verses ordered and arranged as Allah revealed. The Qur'an was fully compiled after The Prophet's death, peace be upon him. Lots of additional standardization took place during ensuing caliphates. A co-worker from Pakistan gave me a new Qur'an as a retirement gift. I would have preferred Vikings-Packers tickets, but am nevertheless grateful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 I have a few different editions...all paperback. It was good ol' Omar (companion to Mohammed and the Boss after Abu Bakr) who decided that the city of Jerusalem...freshly conquered by his armies...was the very location of this abstract 'furthest mosque' visited in Big Mo's dreams. Right on-top of the Jew's old ruined temple. The Church Lady had a phrase for that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Only because you are saying so, apparently. So did God write the Bible or not? It is the word of the Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 It is the word of the Lord. So it was dictated to those who wrote it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 So it was dictated to those who wrote it? Again, it is supposed to be divinely inspired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Again, it is supposed to be divinely inspired. Not good with straight answers, eh? Okay...you're free. The witness may step down as unresponsive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Had is the important difference between divinitively inspired and divinitively dictated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Had is the important difference between divinitively inspired and divinitively dictated? This conversation serves no purpose, Dave. Good-bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 You think an ideology can't be held responsible or are you saying only those who hold that ideology can be held responsible? Did Communism kill millions of people? What about Fascism? Should we respect Fascists and Communists until they actually kill? What if they make speeches and write books saying others should kill in the name of Fascism or Communism? What about a Fascist government which spends billions of dollars every year exporting their ideology abroad, funding schools in poor areas, for example, to teach Fascism to children who grow up to be Fascists and kill people? Do we reserve blame only for the end product, the angry Fascist (or Islamist) who murders? Yeah, they would all be bad. Notice how they are all people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Yeah, they would all be bad. Notice how they are all people. If ideas are just people...why don't they die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 If ideas are just people...why don't they die? Ideas are not just people. It's the people who have the ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Ideas are not just people. It's the people who have the ideas. More double-talk. So did God write the Bible or did humans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 More double-talk. So did God write the Bible or did humans? Humans. There is no God. It's not double talk. Blaming an idea for what humans do instead of blaming the humans is double talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Humans. There is no God. It's not double talk. Blaming an idea for what humans do instead of blaming the humans is double talk. Yet the Quran is the very word of Allah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Macadoo Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Yet the Quran is the very word of Allah.Quran: The prophet (like our mormon friend Mr. Smith) wrote down verbatim what God said.....writerxs cramp and allBible: Disciples slept on it and took their time to summarize what God said to them......then passed it around to their editor to punch up the boring chapters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Yet the Quran is the very word of Allah. And the Bible is the word of God as far as Christians are concerned: "Many people question who the author of the Bible is and wonder if the Bible is really the Word of God. I want to give you five reasons to affirm the Bible is the Word of God." "There are both internal and external evidences that the Bible is truly God’s Word" " the Bible declares or takes the position explicitly or implicitly that it is nothing less than the very Word of God."[/size] Your continuing assertion that Muslims and Christians differ in this regard is silly. People who are religious believe that their holy books are directly from their deity.[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 No worries re: your individual deities and who wrote their holy books. I'm sure all of this terrorism fuss is caused by my Islamophobia anyways. Put the blame where it belongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Yet the Quran is the very word of Allah. Only because a human said so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 What, all of them? No, the actions they're holding us responsible for. You can't hold an abstraction responsible for anything. You can only hold the people responsible, and consider that abstraction the reason for their actions if they tell you it is. This applies to every human being everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) Poverty is also a BS excuse for terrorism. Nonetheless it remains amongst the many reasons why terrorism happens. Edited December 5, 2015 by eyeball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 No worries re: your individual deities and who wrote their holy books. I'm sure all of this terrorism fuss is caused by my Islamophobia anyways. Put the blame where it belongs. Terrorism is a problem, but according to this article, terrorism in the States (and by extension, Canada) is not predominantly Muslim; even Jewish extremists out-performed Muslims. From the above referenced article: Specifically, we reviewed all of the terrorist attacks on U.S. soil as documented by the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism (START). (2012). Global Terrorism Database, as retrieved from http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd. The START Global Terrorism Database spans from 1970 through 2012 (and will be updated from year-to-year), and – as of this writing – includes 104,000 terrorist incidents. As such, it is the most comprehensive open-source database open to the public. [ ] Based on our review of the approximately 2,400 terrorist attacks on U.S. soil contained within the START database, we determined that approximately 60 were carried out by Muslims. In other words, approximately 2.5% of all terrorist attacks on U.S. soil between 1970 and 2012 were carried out by Muslims.* This is a tiny proportion of all attacks. We determined that approximately 118 of the terror attacks – or 4.9% – were carried out by Jewish groups such as Jewish Armed Resistance, the Jewish Defense League, Jewish Action Movement, United Jewish Underground and Thunder of Zion. This is almost twice the percentage of Islamic attacks within the United States. Worldwide, Sunni Muslims are the main perpetrators of terrorism, and Muslims are the main victims of terrorism. Stats on worldwide terrorism here: http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/about/ I entirely agree that terrorism is a serious issue, but disagree that it's specifically Islam that is the problem: the problem is extremism whether it's a Muslim, a Christian, a Jew or an environmentalist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 BTW: I'm not clear as to why their are human names on many of the Bible's books. Did the people who are accredited to writing them claim to have been dictated this information verbatim from God? I think the idea is that God's words found their way through the minds, hands and pens of the people indicated in the bible. I always find it funny when people are mocked for listening to voices in their heads. From what I've been given to understand the voices schizophrenics are said to hear in their heads are actually auditory hallucinations they hear in their ears and is distinctly different than the stream of thoughts we all experience as a flow or words, or music or whatever else we produce with our thoughts. A lot of cultures assumed or believed that thought steam was a god. Closed captioning or a banner/marquee OTOH would probably also indicate schizophrenia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Ideas are not just people. It's the people who have the ideas.I think there are definitely times when an idea or a belief can be so strong it's grip on people is stronger than the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Terrorism is a problem, but according to this article, terrorism in the States (and by extension, Canada) is not predominantly Muslim; even Jewish extremists out-performed Muslims. From the above referenced article: Worldwide, Sunni Muslims are the main perpetrators of terrorism, and Muslims are the main victims of terrorism. Stats on worldwide terrorism here: http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/about/ I entirely agree that terrorism is a serious issue, but disagree that it's specifically Islam that is the problem: the problem is extremism whether it's a Muslim, a Christian, a Jew or an environmentalist. I understand you wish to defend religion by equating all religions as being essentially the same thus it's the individual loony nutter that is the issue...not the doctrine of this or that religion. I disagree. The sheer number of attacks world-wide by those claiming to be doing it for Allah far outnumbers all the others combined. Islam is the issue. That is my opinion. No I won't be swayed. In fact, I'm willing to bet the next major Islamic terrorist attack will happen within a week. Where is anybody's guess. Could be anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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