Islamophobia in Canada

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, kimmy said:

I am sure the Deep South will welcome this new wave of northern carpetbaggers with open arms.

 

Only the legal ones...not the illegal Canadian overstays.  

 

[Omni]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Only the legal ones...not the illegal Canadian overstays.  

 

Would that be the 3 million or so illegal Canucks that Trump claims cost him the popular vote?

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, kimmy said:

1) I think it illustrates the fearful, walk-on-eggshells mentality our media have in addressing Muslims.

2) That argument only works if you consider Rebel Media to be a real media organization, and most people don't. If Stormfront was also posting articles about troubles with Syrian refugees, would you point to Stormfront as an example of media willing to take on this issue?  This is one where you can't have it both ways. Most times when people cite Rebel Media here, others just scoff at it as far-right propaganda. Myself included. Well, if it's far-right propaganda you can't cite it as an example of a real media outlet willing to take on this uncomfortable topic.

3) If the real media is ignoring the issue and Rebel Media is the only place to read about it, it makes it look like the real media is trying to hide something, it makes them look scared, or biased. It makes them look untrustworthy. That isn't good. That is bad. And people will look elsewhere. That has fueled the rise of everything from Breitpravda to Alex Jones.

4) Who, aside from Rebel Media, is covering these stories?  Can you point me at major media outlets willing to address these?  Because I don't consider Rebel Media to be real media, I just consider them alt-right propaganda. As it happens, they are writing about a real issue. Why isn't the mainstream?

 -k

1) ok.

2) Are you saying: Rebel Media isn't real media ?  Isn't Canadian ?  Stormfront is as much Canadian media as Rebel is ?  I don't think Rebel Media is mainstream media but it is "Canadian media".  

3) Agreed.  But - worse - the discussion becomes disconnected and out-of-scale to the problem if MSM denies there are any problems, and leaves it to marginal media to call up a single example to prove them wrong.

4) Here are some stories:

Canada not prepared to handle refugees:

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/this-is-canadas-real-refugee-problem/

Canadians split on accepting refugees:

http://www.citynews.ca/2015/12/09/exclusive-canada-has-enough-problems-refugee-opponents-say-poll/

Misbehaving Syrian students:

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/07/03/misbehaving-syrian-students-are-a-federal-problem

Canadians not as tolerant as some think:

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/canadians-not-so-exceptional-when-it-comes-to-immigration-and-refugee-views-new-study-finds

Syrians reported as being victims of domestic abuse:

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/05/19/1-syrian-refugee-a-week-reports-being-a-victim-of-domestic-abuse-agency-says.html

Sudden influx of refugees overwhelmed high school in NB:

http://globalnews.ca/news/2811724/sudden-influx-of-syrian-refugees-overwhelmed-n-b-high-school-documents/

 

[Michael Hardner]

So the claim that the MSM isn't covering these stories is garbage.

[DogOnPorch]

15 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

So the claim that the MSM isn't covering these stories is garbage.

 

You apparently decide who is mainstream...so anything is possible in that regard.

[Omni]

1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

You apparently decide who is mainstream...so anything is possible in that regard.

Maybe you're just upset because he didn't quote Breitbart.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Omni said:

Maybe you're just upset because he didn't quote Breitbart.

 

Are they your favorite?

[Omni]

1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Are they your favorite?

Oh yeah I'm right there with ya buddy.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Omni said:

Oh yeah I'm right there with ya buddy.

 

I'll remember that you like them. Myself, I don't trust any media. Not a single one.

 

[Argus]

11 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

So the claim that the MSM isn't covering these stories is garbage.

This is an example of what Jonathan Hadr called confirmation bias. You're looking for something, however tenuous, that you can seize on to confirm what you have already decided is true. The links you have posted are, for the most part, unrelated to anything that was being discussed. It's really rather astonishing you would even post them and then add a sweeping dismissal. Let's examine them.

The first link expressed pride in how good Canada feels about refugees but worries about the ability to handle the administration of all these newcomers. The second and fourth discuss the same poll on Canadian attitudes about refugees. So none of them are relevant. The only two which are cover the Rebel story about Fredericton. But they pretty much had to mention it once the Rebel started putting out the story. And of course, both stories downplayed the problem, giving no examples of threats, not mentioning the sexual assault and harassment elements or the school largely ignoring them, not mentioning there were 20 year old men with beards placed into classrooms with 14 year olds.

In fact, your cites completely support my contention that the Canadian media is doing its best to downplay such stories, and has no intention of ever looking into things the way the British media has.

[Omni]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

This is an example of what Jonathan Hadr called confirmation bias. You're looking for something, however tenuous, that you can seize on to confirm what you have already decided is true.

Boy does that sound familiar.

[Argus]

32 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

So the claim that the MSM isn't covering these stories is garbage.

That is exactly the kind of smug attitude the MSM in Sweden, the UK and Germany have had, the same attitude their governments have, and the reason why extremism and support for extremism is rising across Europe. All of them and their governments have been desperately explaining how Islam is just another religion, and how Muslims are not involved in anything anti-social or criminal and how they're so very welcome. And yet, despite this virtual unanimity among governments and media in Europe and North America, public opinion polls show the public's view of Muslims is getting worse and worse.

Why do you suppose that is? We're talking about liberal, secular populations here.

Edited May 7, 2017 by Argus

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1) Me ?  *I* am the Canadian media ?

My original statement to which you replied said "You never see..." The reference was not to you personally.

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

2) They haven't ever asked how newcomers feel about women, gays and so on ?

No.

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

3) Not even tried ?

No.

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

I could look this up, and I think I *might* find ONE organization that has done this.  Care to step back from this blanket statement ?

No.

[Michael Hardner]

13 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

You apparently decide who is mainstream...so anything is possible in that regard.

Which of these is not mainstream: MacLeans, City News, Toronto Sun, National Post, The Star, Global News.

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

That is exactly the kind of smug attitude the MSM in Sweden, the UK and Germany have had, the same attitude their governments have, and the reason why extremism and support for extremism is rising across Europe. All of them and their governments have been desperately explaining how Islam is just another religion, and how Muslims are not involved in anything anti-social or criminal and how they're so very welcome. And yet, despite this virtual unanimity among governments in Europe and North America, public opinion polls show the public's view of Muslims is getting worse and worse.

Islam and Nazism have many similarities...old wounds opened. Hey look...the Jew-haters who like war are back.

[Argus]

3 minutes ago, Omni said:

Boy does that sound familiar.

It's not confirmation bias when you can produce ten thousand stories which agree with you. It's confirmation bias when you ignore then and frantically wave around the one story you find that disagrees with all the others.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

Which of these is not mainstream: MacLeans, City News, Toronto Sun, National Post, The Star, Global News.

You decide.

[Omni]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

It's not confirmation bias when you can produce ten thousand stories which agree with you. It's confirmation bias when you ignore then and frantically wave around the one story you find that disagrees with all the others.

I couldn't agree more.

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, Omni said:

I couldn't agree more.

 

Two guys yelling Allahu-Akbar...oooops...we mean one Trump lover who wants fresh water for the Third World white supremacist.

[Michael Hardner]

14 minutes ago, Argus said:

The only two which are cover the Rebel story about Fredericton. But they pretty much had to mention it once the Rebel started putting out the story. And of course, both stories downplayed the problem, giving no examples of threats, not mentioning the sexual assault and harassment elements or the school largely ignoring them, not mentioning there were 20 year old men with beards placed into classrooms with 14 year olds.

Again, Rebel Media is Canadian media and I even found MSM stories that covered it, so you're tap dancing here.  If they didn't agree with The Rebel, they still covered it.

[Omni]

2 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Two guys yelling Allahu-Akbar...oooops...we mean one Trump lover who wants fresh water for the Third World white supremacist.

You still haven't got that story straight? Maybe leave that Breitbart page alone for a bit and read some actual news...hint, like an actual police report. They have no reason to be bias in such an event.Don't let conspiracy theories drive your day.

[Argus]

The cost of resettling 20,000 refugees in the UK is pegged at two billion pounds. That's $3.5 billion in Canadian dollars.

The government of Canada says that resettling 40,000 refugees in Canada will cost less than one tenth as much. Somehow...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/12/resettling-20000-syrian-refugees-in-britain-will-cost-nearly-two/

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Omni said:

You still haven't got that story straight? Maybe leave that Breitbart page alone for a bit and read some actual news...hint, like an actual police report. They have no reason to be bias in such an event.Don't let conspiracy theories drive your day.

You mean police reports that said two suspects were arrested: Bashir al-Taweed and Hasan Matti? Those police reports?

[Argus]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

Again, Rebel Media is Canadian media and I even found MSM stories that covered it, so you're tap dancing here.  If they didn't agree with The Rebel, they still covered it.

If the fact something was covered by a web site contents you with the alert state of the Canadian media then it takes very little to content you.

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

If the fact something was covered by a web site contents you with the alert state of the Canadian media then it takes very little to content you.

Why do you think I am 'contented' ?  Stop making up attitudes of mine, and focus on choosing your words more carefully.  Even Kimmy had to come to your rescue for some reason.

----

Yes, I am disheartened with the lack of spectrum in this discussion.  Clearly, we have a two-tiered attitude towards these issues and an elected class that doesn't have to deal with problems such as overcrowded schools and violence.  They prefer to paper over problems,and the lack of discussion means the issue is forced into one of two buckets: everything is fine vs. this is a disaster.

If people focus on the problems and engage properly it will go a long way to building trust and actually addressing problems rather than demonizing each other and caricaturing the various stakeholders involved.

BTW - to address the initial point you made before Kimmy joined, you are correct: I haven't found any Canadian media that asks about attitudes of the recent refugees.