Islamophobia in Canada

[Hal 9000]

Yet, the poster I responded to was talking about Muslim women in the UK objecting to something men were doing. Surely, that's got to be a better outcome than still being in a country where they're barely allowed to leave the house, let alone object and be heard around the world. Yes, taking advantage of freedom and understanding one's own personal rights takes time, and no doubt it starts with the second generation more than the first. But at least it starts.

Early on the Liberal government did acknowledge that the refugees would have health issues, including mental health, that they would be screened for and if appropriate, provided treatment and counselling. Those issues are not being ignored. In the volunteer orientation I attended, the difficulties people have adjusting was specifically covered, and volunteers are asked to commit to at least a year to offer mental/emotional support to these people as well as help them adjust to Canadian life. Your assumption that everyone who supports the refugee are a bunch of naive do-gooders with rose-colored glasses who don't know what they're doing is just wrong.

And again, you've suggested that refugees are dirty and diseased with no proof other than your own ugly prejudice. The prevalence rate of AIDS in Syria is .01%; in Canada, it's .2%.

The Canadians who built this country were given free land, clothes, and equipment. They did bring their own belief systems with them and certainly did define others as 'inferior' to them. Just ask the First Nations people who were put onto reservations and into the residential schools. Just ask the early East Indian immigrants, referred to as ragheads and widely considered 'smelly', or the early Chinese settlers, relegated the most menial and dangerous jobs during the railroad building across Canada. Maybe you need to stop looking at history through rose-colored glasses.

You don't really believe that with your "voluntary orientation", that you're even remotely qualified to the deal with the emotional issues that they will encounter, do you?

Here in Canada, you need years of full time schooling to even begin to council english speaking people. No, if you are involved with refugees, it'll be shopping, doing laundry, using a bank card etc. Any emotional or medical issues will be funded and provided by places such as social services, comunitas, CLBC etc.

P.S - please refrain from calling East Indians - ragheads!

[On Guard for Thee]

P.S - please refrain from calling East Indians - ragheads!

Do you doubt the claim this term was used?

[dialamah]

You don't really believe that with your "voluntary orientation", that you're even remotely qualified to the deal with the emotional issues that they will encounter, do you?

Here in Canada, you need years of full time schooling to even begin to council english speaking people. No, if you are involved with refugees, it'll be shopping, doing laundry, using a bank card etc. Any emotional or medical issues will be funded and provided by places such as social services, comunitas, CLBC etc.

Yes exactly. Merely pointing out to the member that his concerns about mental/emotional issues among refugees are known, and not not being naively ignored.

P.S - please refrain from calling East Indians - ragheads!

Never have, was bullied in high school for making friends with a couple people of South Asian (current correct term, I believe) heritage. Again, merely pointing out to a member that Canada is and was full of people who think themselves "better than" some other group.

[kimmy]

And isn't it great that these Muslim women now live in a country where they can object, and be heard. Isn't it great that these men who still seek to marginalize women can't just do so - no questions asked.

Well, the women making these allegations claim that the Muslim men in their communities have been successful in marginalizing them, with Labour Party playing along in the name of appeasing Muslim voters.

The concern here is that despite the oft-repeated assurance that "they'll adopt our values!" ...it seems that significant numbers simply haven't. "They won't change our country... our country will change them!" But in England... well, it seems like the Labour Party is a counterexample.

There's entrenched sexism in most cultures. Even cultures that claim to have eliminated that particular vice still have 'slut-shaming' and 'boys will be boys' kinds of cultural attitudes. Fortunately, since 1983 in Canada raping one's wife has been illegal so at least the Muslim women we welcome to Canada will have that same protection, along with protection from being battered and killed by their spouses (inasmuch as it works, which isn't very well). Like that little Afghani girl I saw yesterday: she'll be able to grow up knowing that she's important, and that men do not have the right to assault her.

She'll grow up knowing that thanks to a country that's given a firm "nope" to Islamic ideas about female modesty being responsible for sexual assault.

Western politicians pandering to misogynistic elements of society, whatever color/creed they are, should be condemned. That cannot be blamed on Islam or Muslims, so why do you use that as an argument to be 'cautious' about Muslims coming to Canada?

I agree that I can't blame Muslim immigrants for Western politicians pandering to them. I certainly do feel like I can't trust Western politicians to do the right thing rather than pandering when the votes are on the line.

But I'm also concerned that the growing size of these communities in Canada will only increase the opportunity for such pandering to occur at all. Seeing the Conservatives back in the day reach out to ethnic communities by branding themselves as their anti-gay allies on Parliament Hill was certainly not reassuring.

Also, you haven't provided any evidence that wife beating, assault, etc., has increased at all in Canada among non-immigrants as a result of accepting immigrants from conservative, misogynistic cultures.

I've never claimed that non-immigrants will adopt misogynist behavior from misogynist cultures who arrive here.

-k

[Rue]

Dialamah you respnded to me in post 3723; " And again, you've suggested that refugees are dirty and diseased with no proof other than your own ugly prejudice "

In fact the words I used in post 3721 were:

"What is it that will get you to concede that we may have not properly prepared for the medical illnesses, the genetic diseases, the psychiatric illnesses that are coming in? and will show up in the next generations? "

You have people on this thread who can't even wrap their head around the fact of what terrorism is and want to play liberal semantics as to what it means and you think you will get them to admit that the refugees coming in have mental illnesses and diseases we need to treat?

Tell me-you want to save such women? Will you be following up and educating their husbands? Will you be explaining to them that having 7 children and no job will cause problems?

Will you be the one to tell them after the photo ops and smiling liberal faces go away how to unblock their toilets or that their son Ahmed who takes priority over his mother is not practicing safe sex and is flunking out of school? Well?

I doubt it. While Ahmed spreads v.d. and hey maybe aids, his parents will have pulled him from school because it has sex education in the curriculum. That's the world I live in. "

Dialamah you engage in false representation of what I said and falsely infer bigotry on me. You repeat the exercise of another poster and you typify what is wrong with this thread-when someone tells you something you don't like-you accuse them of being a bigot. What Dialamah you think it will make the issues you don't want to deal with go away by attacking me and calling me names?

Here's the reality you try make go away by calling me a bigot:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/242334867_Genetic_Disorders_in_Syria

http://www.syriadeeply.org/articles/2014/08/5953/syria-er-infectious-diseases-poised-spread-syria-iraq/

http://www.msf.org/article/lebanon-treating-chronic-diseases-among-syrian-refugees-priority-msf

http://thechronicleherald.ca/world/645346-disease-outbreaks-afflict-syrian-refugees

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Local-News/2013/Feb-13/206221-syrian-refugee-diseases-infections-on-the-rise.ashx

Go on Dialkamah read the propaganda of your own government on the issue including this couched reference after the government statement claims everything will be just fine:

"Many of the health issues faced by incoming refugees will be reflective of the hardships they have endured. There will be systems in place to address health issues over time including physical trauma, such as wound care, malnutrition, psychosocial trauma and dental health issues.
We will also be prepared to provide treatment for chronic diseases such as cardiovascular diseases, hypertension and diabetes, as for some refugees the interruption of healthcare in their country of origin and limited access to healthcare services during their journey may have resulted in the interruption of treatments often required for the control of these conditions.
In caring for the most immediate and pressing physical health concerns of these refugees, we must also keep in mind their mental health. Once they have recovered physically and they integrate into Canadian society, it is very possible that the focus of care and support will need to shift to the lasting psychological effects of their experiences. The federal government will continue to work with its health partners in the provinces and territories, and the private sector to provide ongoing health services as refugees begin their life and participation in Canada."

The above is an out and out lie. Nothing has been put in place. Its been dumped on the provinces with zero funding from Ottawa to the provinces.

The lie is entitled:

.

Health Status of Syrian Refugees - cma.ca and is at:

www.cma.ca/.../health-status-of-syrian-refugees_en.pdf

What Dialamah is this a bigoted article?

http://www.unhcr.org/517a5d589.html

The reality I live in and you try dismiss Dialamah as bigotry is:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/amid-crisis-refugees-face-numerous-health-risks/

This is the issue you prefer to call me a bigot about rather than deal with:

http://www.academia.edu/5066063/MUSLIM_IDENTITY_DIVERSITY_and_DIFFICULTIES_WITH_ASSIMILATION_1_

Go on Dialamah call this Muslim a bigot as well for writing this article:

http://mackenzieinstitute.com/rise-islamic-extremism-canada/

You Dialamah have provided yet another classic example of trying to shut me up by calling me a bigot against Muslims. So much for your posing as a tolerant individual of others. You just showed your true colours.

[Rue]

Dialamah you stated in post 3723:

"The Canadians who built this country were given free land, clothes, and equipment."

Absolute bull crap. They were most certainly not. You really want to rewrite history? What nonsense. State who these people were.

You stated:

"They did bring their own belief systems with them and certainly did define others as 'inferior' to them. "

Really. Provide example of them and what their behaviour caused and how it had to be dealt with. Please finish it then.

You stated:

"Just ask the First Nations people who were put onto reservations and into the residential schools."

Right so we should bring in people who define non Muslims as inferiors and provide them benefits no First Nations people get-love the logic. You admit the behaviour caused injustice then engage in some ridiculous attempt to suggest since we discriminated against aboriginals, we should bring in people who will repeat our ignorance and intolerance of the past. Uh yah that's very logical. You can't even see the absurdity in what you use as an argument. You justify being tolerant to intolerance by saying others were intolerant.

"Just ask the early East Indian immigrants, referred to as ragheads and widely considered 'smelly', or the early Chinese settlers, relegated the most menial and dangerous jobs during the railroad building across Canada. Maybe you need to stop looking at history through rose-colored glasses. "

Who the hell do you think you can adapt that patronizing tone to? My mother was a refugee. My grandparents were refugees. My family dealt head on with bigotry. I fought my whole childhood because I was called a dirty Jew. Watch who you patronize. You missed the entire point. No government helped my parents. No government helped the refugees and immigrants who came to this country. We did it without government help. You need to be very quiet before you lecture any Canadian. This country is made up of immigrants and refugees/ Don't you patronize me and suggest I am against refugees. What crap. What sanctimonious crap to say because I warn about adjustment issues we have not properly prepared for it makes me anti refugee.

Your make believe history of Canada is a crock of crap. No one came here and was met by the Prime Minister with photo ops. Jews were sent back to their deaths in Nazi Germany and called vermin by McKenzie King. Don't lecture me on East Indians or Chinese or anyone. They know what they went through when they got here and so did I. We were not given homes. We were not given free medical benefits. No one gave a damn about us.

Your patronizing tone is exactly the kind of bigotry we overcame. People like you who presume to be doing Syrians a favour you are not. You are a patronizing elitist posing as a patron of the downtrodden. Get over your posing.

Anyone coming to this country wanting to advocate inferiority of non Muslims, wanting to define women and children in the ways of mainstream Islam, who want to undo our sexual education curriculum and laws, they will be challenged and it has nothing to do with being anti refugee. It has to do with some of us fed up people like you in the name of tolerance apologize for fascism, sexism and political platforms based on the exploitation of refugees to make elite sheltered liberals feel good about themselves.

You won't be unclogging toilets, lancing boils, dealing with genetic diseases. Not you. You'll be too busy calling people like me bigots because I point out no one planned proper social support systems for the people we took in.

You Dialamah are the problem not refugees-you and people like you who can't deal with reality and pretend refugees just come to Canada and poof they play hockey and love maple syrup.

[dialamah]

Dialamah you stated in post 3723:

"The Canadians who built this country were given free land, clothes, and equipment."

Absolute bull crap. They were most certainly not. You really want to rewrite history? What nonsense. State who these people were.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/backgrounders/2011/2011-06-27.asp

• Dominion Lands Act was the 1872 piece of legislation that granted a quarter section of free land (160 acres or 64.7 hectares) to any settler 21 years of age or older who paid a ten–dollar registration fee, lived on his quarter section for three years, cultivated 30 acres (12.1 hectares), and built a permanent dwelling.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-516-x/sectionc/4057749-eng.htm

In the early days of settlement in Canada, it was common practice for settlers to receive assistance, in the form of land grants, basic food requirements, clothing and working equipment, from both public and private sources, within Canada and abroad, in order to establish themselves in their new homeland.

http://www.pier21.ca/research/immigration-history/empire-settlement-act-1922

A variety of different settlement schemes were initiated in Canada under the terms of the Empire Settlement Act. Inducements for emigration included reduced transportation fares, agricultural training and financial aid.

You stated:

"They did bring their own belief systems with them and certainly did define others as 'inferior' to them. "

Really. Provide example of them and what their caused and how it had to be dealt with. Please finish it then.

Mennonites. Chinese New Year. Hannukah. Diwali. All of these are part of certain immigrant groups belief systems, and we haven't had to deal with them.

and certainly did define others as 'inferior' to them.

Just read this thread. How many of the people who've said or implied Syrian refugees are barbaric, unwashed, backward, etc., are immigrants or direct descendants of immigrants within a couple of generations?

[On Guard for Thee]

Good on ya for doing the research on this dialamah. Apparently some people ought to take some time out from writing these long winded posts and take a history lesson.

[WestCanMan]

Dialamah you stated in post 3723:

"The Canadians who built this country were given free land, clothes, and equipment."

Absolute bull crap. They were most certainly not. You really want to rewrite history? What nonsense. State who these people were.

Homesteaders and pioneers came here and turned this country into a place that is the envy of most of the rest of the world. When they weren't busy building they were busy fighting the Nazi's and peacekeeping all over the globe, or giving aid to countries in dire need.

I'm sick of people putting down Canada and Canadians. What a farce.

[Rue]

Dialamah your continuing to call me a bigot and make this personal speaks for itself.

Secondlly the examples you have of assistance are a bloody joke. So you even know what you are quoting and who It applied to and what percentage of immigrants they were of the total amount that came here and got no assistance? Well? Go look. While you are at it look again. The vast majority of immigrants and refugees who have come here did not get a damn penny from the government. If they did get assistance it was from churches, congregations, relatives and neighbours. More to the point nothing I have said has criticized just that.

What I have criticized is the blatant favouritism of selecting out Syrian refugees while ignoring refugees from other war torn areas. That's what I criticized. rather then address the issue of favouritism and the lack of fairness you try smeer me and suggest I am a bigot and against refugees? that's your idea of debating ignoring the very issue of favouritism I brought up and changing he subject to try suggest I am against something I am not? Right.

Early days of settlement my butt. You even know what that means? Do you even read what you quote? You are comparing a time when the planet did not have the population it has now, the political issues it has now, the population patterns and unemployment it has now. But hey why let that get in the way of your fantasy world. In your world Canada back itn he 1800's and Canada today is the same thing. Right.

Now put up or apologize. Who has called Syrians dirty. Who? The articles I pfovied and the issues I have raised can not be reduced to petty name calling you throw out. that it means I think Syrians are dirty and you accused me of saying which I never did now smeer other posters witht he same false accusations of bigotry and deliberately ignore what I said and backed up.

Yah I get it Dialamah. Because I raise serious medical and social issues the federal government has not planned for this means I think Syrians are dirt. No actually. it means you have no clue how to respond to the issues I raised, so name call.

Knock it off. Stop calling me a bigot. You know nothing about me. Not a damn thing.

You think you can keep ignoring the ugly reality you can't embrace by calling me a bigt? Get out of petulant fantasy land. The cute photo ops, the smiling faces, the welcome to Canada horse sheeyit, that's your wor;d not mine precisely because I know better as the son of a refugee and immigrants and worked with "dirty" children. Excuse me but let me make it clear, I have unclogged toilets and I know what impitago is, what bloody diaheria is, malaria, untreated venereal diseases, untreated skin cancer, boils, cholera, typhoid fever, rat bites. That's my world. Not the world of pretty hair and photo ops handing out coats and exploiting refugees to feel god phto ops at their expense reducing them to trained monkeys. You call me the bigot? Guess what I call you the bigot for beings patronizing and thinking you know these people and are saving them. You don't get it. You are the very person you thhink you criticize, the so called white man removing savages from their homes and transporting them thousands of miles away and thinking you can Canadianize them. Only this time its not aboriginal children, its Syrian children/

You and On Guard and the rest of you smug elitists keep pat yourselves on the back and act superior and smug an pose how tolerant you are and keep smeering me and others. Got it. Keep puffing yourselves and your feelings of moral superiority at the expense of the Syrians you use as props to do so with your positions. Knock yourself out.

See me I have lanced boils. I know the skin diseases that come out of the refugee camps resistant to anti biotics. No they are not cute and no people like Trudeau and you haven't a clue about them. Dirty? grow up with such petulant comments. Its not about dirt. Its about accepting reality and the fact that when we take in diseased and injured people we need to first set up proper medical and social nets which have no been done.

Liberals are great at starting things but never finishing them-like your arguments-ano substance, no follow up and no logistics-Trudeau and liberals are so quick to promise utopia no different then know it all people did with aboriginal children in residential schools-now what -who pays for it and how is it put into practice?

Go on explain. You haven't a clue why aboriginal children didn't presto turn Canadian when air lifted. Not a friggin clue and yet you raise their name to justify the same idiocy being repeated with Syrians and you just can't get it.

You just don't get-you don't airlift and dump people and poof they become Canadian and we all live happily together.

Oh but hey why dirty your hands having to deal with such issues right? You prefer to live in the world of photo ops and smiles hmmm? Your world doesn't deal with assimilation issues that mutate into mental and physical diseases and criminal or socially deviant behavior. No in your world Cinderella finds her damn shoe and lives happily ever after.

Excuse me if I reject your Willy Wonka world.

Now it works both ways. You want to keep attributing false statements, positions to me and keep calling me a bigot, I can say the same back-that your positions reflect abject immaturity an you are a naïve child. Enough with the name calling-respond to the issues-what proper social planning has this government done and how is it islamophobic to point out its not been planned?

Edited February 9, 2016 by Rue

[Rue]

On Guard if that is what you call research I have one word for you, lol. If your reality begins and ends with a few web references, it speaks loudly.

Now you think Dialamah has proven her point. Please show me. Show me how the federal government provided financial incentives, clothing and support for Jews who came to Canada. Please tell me. Can't wait. Then move on to the Irish, Italians, Portugese,. Hey I do not want to make it too hard. I will hold off on the Chinese and Siekhs for now.

Get real. Most Canadians came as what we call today refugees/. When they came they were called immigrants. They fled from situations as horrific as what Syrians face today and no one played favourites and handed out benefits to them. Canada only agreed to conform to the 1951 refugee convention in the late 60's. Are first liberal guilt exercise was Vietnamese. We had similar but smaller exercises of tolerance for Sri Lankan Tamils, Somalis. That's it. Now go pat yourself on the back and act like Syrians are just the latest in Canada WELCOMING all. Dream on..

Go find out what coffin ships were and tell me which PM stood at the shores with blankets and coats let alone government assistance. What a crock. Scotts and irish had a 30% mortality rate after arrival.

100,000 Irish came to Quebec in 1847. There was no one waiting for them. They were on their own and the help they did get came from the Catholic church.

When 180,000 Ukrainians came to Canada from 1892 to 1914 , they were literally dumped out West with no assistance and many starved. The government didn't help them and then they were interned during WW1 but many others in spite of that served in the Canadian army.

Between 1815 and 1850 it is estimated 800,000 immigrants came from the British Isles. Now please provide the government assistance they got.

in 1913, 400,000 Immigrants came from Europe to Canada. What financial assistance did they get from the Canadian government.

Explain to me what the Chinese Immigration Act was.

Research my butt. Dialamah and you have zero clue about the history of Canadian immigration law or you wouldn't be foaming over the pathetic cut and paste she did to try suggest Syrians are getting what we give and gave others. That is a bold faced lie.

The fact is we are now playing favourites with Syrians. We are picking out one group as a priority over others and giving them access t benefits not all Canadians let alone immigrants or refugees will ever get. Deal with it because in the name of your so called liberal tolerance you support bigoted, blatantly discriminatory practices in favour of Syrian refugees.

Its precisely because I am a damn refugee son I call this out as bigotry. Save your elitist selective bigotry to make you feel all warm anf fuzzy. We immigrants and refugees came here to build this country not ask for anything from you or opt out of laws. You know nothing about us and our hardships. Not a clue. We did not ask for handouts. We are not against helping people in need but we sure as hell want nothing to do with your bull sheeyit government handouts that insult and patronize and don't do anything but teach people to be dependent on government.

You and Dialamah feel good that you are creating an underclass. Someone will need to clean your toilets right?

Edited February 9, 2016 by Rue

[waldo]

Good on ya for doing the research on this dialamah. Apparently some people ought to take some time out from writing these long winded posts and take a history lesson.

the targeted member's reaction to that research (those provided links) is to ridicule it and double-down with more, yet more, verbosity! Those who wield nothing but long rambling unsubstantiated statements/claims... they no likee reference links that trump their... verbosity!

.

[On Guard for Thee]

You and Dialamah feel good that you are creating an underclass. Someone will need to clean your toilets right?

Since 1872 the Dominion Lands Act roughly 118,000,000 acres of land were given to immigrants. My grandparents were immigrants from the UK, although they didn't avail themselves of that program but settled in Ontario. And I clean my own toilets thank you very much.

[On Guard for Thee]

the targeted member's reaction to that research (those provided links) is to ridicule it and double-down with more, yet more, verbosity! Those who wield nothing but long rambling unsubstantiated statements/claims... they no likee reference links that trump their... verbosity!

.

Is that trump used as a verb or an adjective?

[Argus]

Just read this thread. How many of the people who've said or implied Syrian refugees are barbaric, unwashed, backward, etc., are immigrants or direct descendants of immigrants within a couple of generations?

Up until Trudeau the elder opened up immigration to the third world in the 1970s there wasn't a whole lot of distance between the cultural and technological level of Canadians, and that of newcomers to Canada. That all changed with a flood of third world people, and the distance between their cultural/technological level and ours has been growing wider year by year. The gap between a barely literate olive grower from rural Syria and the average Canadian could hardly be greater.

[waldo]

Up until Trudeau the elder opened up immigration to the third world in the 1970s there wasn't a whole lot of distance between the cultural and technological level of Canadians, and that of newcomers to Canada. That all changed with a flood of third world people, and the distance between their cultural/technological level and ours has been growing wider year by year. The gap between a barely literate olive grower from rural Syria and the average Canadian could hardly be greater.

in your expressed focus on immigration, is a, as you say, "barely literate olive grower from rural Syria", the average Syrian immigrant... or just your personal skewed presentation of that average?

.

[CITIZEN_2015]

So immigration should be only open to rich countries? The fact is that Canada has an immigration point system for which immigrants have to score certain point to qualify for immigration. Many of immigrants are doctors and engineers and become taxpayers for decades and contribute very positively to this society and some others are investors who come here open up a business and hire Canadians and then you had to go and pick up a barely literate olive farmer from Syria as a typical immigrant!!!!!!!!!. I do accept that adaptability should be given more weight in our immigration system which means those from Europe and North American continent should stand better chances for immigration (and those already adopted to advanced cultures with high education who may live in third world countries).

[On Guard for Thee]

Up until Trudeau the elder opened up immigration to the third world in the 1970s there wasn't a whole lot of distance between the cultural and technological level of Canadians, and that of newcomers to Canada. That all changed with a flood of third world people, and the distance between their cultural/technological level and ours has been growing wider year by year. The gap between a barely literate olive grower from rural Syria and the average Canadian could hardly be greater.

Apparently your little quip about the "barely literate olive grower" is simply another whopper of a failed assumption.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/11/26/refugees-economy-canada_n_8658076.html

[Argus]

in your expressed focus on immigration, is a, as you say, "barely literate olive grower from rural Syria", the average Syrian immigrant... or just your personal skewed presentation of that average?

.

It's a description which came from the last cite I posted w/r to Syrian refugees.

[Argus]

So immigration should be only open to rich countries?

It would seem to be preferable if we got our immigrants from societies with roughly the same cultural and educational level as exists here.

The fact is that Canada has an immigration point system for which immigrants have to score certain point to qualify for immigration. Many of immigrants are doctors and engineers and become taxpayers for decades and contribute very positively to this society and some others are investors who come here open up a business and hire Canadians and then you had to go and pick up a barely literate olive farmer from Syria as a typical immigrant!!!!!!!!!.

I have often posted the stats which show recent newcomers, regardless of how the government jiggers the points system, are performing worse and worse in economic terms than their predecessors.

[Argus]

Apparently your little quip about the "barely literate olive grower" is simply another whopper of a failed assumption.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/11/26/refugees-economy-canada_n_8658076.html

Let's examine your cite, shall we.

The recent news that settling 25,000 Syrian refugees in Canada will cost $1.2 billion over the next six years has some questioning whether the government’s humanitarian mission is worth the price.

Now, as I posted earlier, Denmark set aside $2 billion to look out for 32,000 refugees for one year. Are we to believe Canada is THAT much cheaper than Denmark? I would suggest to you that the article's assessment of the costs is woefully low. In fact, and in particular if we follow through with the idea of bringing over 50,000 this year, the cost ill be far, far higher.

But many experts say cost is just one side of the equation. On the other side are the economic benefits to be had from the arrival of refugees from a country known for its relatively skilled work force.

Syria's "relatively skilled" work force? I have posted two cites from reputable people who interviewed the refugees and who are over there, and who both say the highly skilled among the Syrian refugees are the ones who decamped to Europe. What WE are getting, are the poorest of the poor, to quote Matthew Fisher, or "olive growers" to quote the cite I posted this week.

They are NOT highly skilled. They have few, if any local language skills. They have little applicable job skills. They will find it EXTREMELY difficult to find work at all, and even more difficult to find work above the level of taxi driver or store clerk.

They are, on the other hand, likely to be highly religious, as poor people in the ME generally are.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Argus

[Rue]

Since 1872 the Dominion Lands Act roughly 118,000,000 acres of land were given to immigrants. My grandparents were immigrants from the UK, although they didn't avail themselves of that program but settled in Ontario. And I clean my own toilets thank you very much.

Well thanks for telling me you scrub your toilets. Now tell me who will fetch your Big Macks?

Save that man of the people routine for someone else. To me your position and your words drip of elitism.

Now do explain this ridiculous attempt to create an analogy to the blatant discriminatory favouritism being shown Syrian refugees by referring to giving land to immigrants in 1872, You want to explain how that is relevant? Go on then. Do you liberals ever finish any thing you throw out? What relevance is it? How does giving land in 1872 justify blatant favouritism to Syrian refugees over other refugees? Explain? Please. Did I miss something?

Lol. Oh but you know, its so obvious, so spell it out then. Can you?

By the way not that you noticed, but the land "given" to settlers at the time was empty and not that you are aware but there were these people here called aboriginals. No one gave aboriginals land you know. In fact they had land taken away. But hey zip over your head. Now finish. Explain how giving settlers land to live on at a time when the country was just starting is the equivalent of being blatantly discriminatory against refugees other than Syrians? Do explain. Oh wait I get it-since we discriminated against aboriginals and took their land away we should continue to be discriminatory? Yah that makes discrimination correct. Oh I get it. Just like we airlifted aboriginal children to save them, so do we now with Syrians..got it...only now we won't put them in Reform schools...oh heck no...we will give them free homes and medical benefits and out them on welfare and make them dependent on government handouts. Hey now I get it. We need to repeat what we did with aboriginals but now instead of you saving aboriginals you'll save Syrians. Thanks Bwana Missionary.

You and Waldo and Dialamah get back to me. Have a meeting of your missionaries and figure out how you are going to one up me with your analogies trying to justify your elitist assumptions and holier then thou saving the savages nobility.

Can you at least give me one response that has a semblance of connection to the issues I have challenged. Lord at least grasp the issues you haven't responded to. You have yet to provide justification for blatant favouritism for one group, Syrian refugees over others. T

You three have yet to respond to the issue of improper planning for medical and social issues these refugees will be bringing in.

You three do continue to call everyone who disagrees with you bigots and continue to advance the naive expectation that you can literally dump people in Canada and presto poof they suddenly have homes, benefits and work..oh hell let the next generation deal with that one.

Hey now its well. I mean after all the Toronto Star shows pictures every day of happy large families in Canada smiling. See its all good.

Hell in the past people like you at least dunked their heads in water and gave them a "Christian" name. Now you don't even proseltyze. You just dump them, prop them up for some feel good photo ops then move on to your next trendy cause.

Medical problems? Psychiatric problems? Social adjustment issues? Not in your elite world...no..everyone in your world just magically transforms into a Canadian with no clogged toilets or boils in need of lancing. No no no, that would be bigoted to point out.

Spare me. The three of you won't be around to clean toilets, bed pans or lance boils. But hey you clean toilets. Got it. You are a man of the people welcoming savages to utopia. Atta boy pat yourself on the back.

superior to what you once were savage. Got it.

Don't patronize me or any other person who comes from immigrants or refugees. Our families didn't come here and tell Christians they disagreed with Christianity and then demand we opt out of Canadian laws. When I or my family faced bigotry as every other immigrant and refugee did coming here, we didn't have a human rights tribunal. We dealt with it on a private level. We did what we had to do to overcome barriers by not demanding things but by working hard to get things.

What you don't want to hear that kind of talk? Why because it flies in the face of your silver spoon elitist concept that equality, benefits, homes, are not givens-you have to earn them?

What it's bigoted to say we should not engage in discriminatory practices to provide the cause of the week vicrtims things we are not able or willing to give all Canadians?

Spare me your crap about trying to justify blatant discriminatory treatment for Syrians because you feel Syrian refugees are your trend of the month project. You'll have moved on to your next cause celebre within weeks.

Go on hop a plane and bring back some Christians from South Sudan. Oh no wait, that's not on your liberal guilt menu this week or month or ever.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Rue

[GostHacked]

So Rue, why is the Canadian government not accepting Christian refugees from Africa? I mean it's all fine to bitch at another member for the inaction of our government in that regard, but I guess it's better to complain about a member who really can't do to much about who gets accepted from where.

[Rue]

GhostHacked, I am not complaining about a member. I am debating and challenging that member's opinion, specifically his attempt to rationalize the current Canadian government's refugee policy which singles out Syrian refugees for special treatment.

Don't pose me as a victimizer or picking on another member. I am challenging him and others on this thread for calling people like me or others Islamophobes because we think blatant discrimination in favour of Syrian refugees is unfair, or because we question certain precepts of the Muslim religion.

Let me make it clear, when people attempt to criticize extremist Islamic beliefs on this thread or favouritism shown Syrian refugees, they are called Islamophobes, bigots and I have consistently challenged that and the attempt to justify discrimination by suggesting past discrimination (which is alleged but not proven) makes it acceptable. That is illlogical.

Don't pose me as a victimizer or On Guard is a victim.

He expressed opinions I challenged and keep challenging because I find them illogical, elitist, discriminatory and bigoted in favour of extremist Muslims and Syrians. That's my opinion and that is why I challenge his and that is why I have stated what I have.

Don't falsely mislabel that. I have never suggested On Guard is responsible for refugee policy in Canada nor have I complained about him. I challenge his words on the forum, period.

My tone and works are in direct response for being called an Islamophobe or anti Muslim because I hold the views I do. This thread has a lot of people accusing some of us of being bigots and all I have done is point out the people calling us bigots and assuming moral high ground on us are as bigoted and their morality is as questionable.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Rue

[WestCanMan]

Since 1872 the Dominion Lands Act roughly 118,000,000 acres of land were given to immigrants. My grandparents were immigrants from the UK, although they didn't avail themselves of that program but settled in Ontario. And I clean my own toilets thank you very much.

Who wanted to live in rural Saskatchewan or Alberta in 1872?

Who wanted to clear 40 acres, build a farmhouse and outbuildings, cultivate 40 or more acres with oxen and horses, pump water from a well, cut and haul firewood or shovel coal, just for the privilege of trying to survive the prairie winters? You get 7 hrs and 28 minutes of daylight in Edm on dec 21, the rest of the day for them was Oil lamps and a wood or coal-burning stove. No internet, no tv, not even radio. The only music you heard came from people in the same room as you. Those prairie kids didn't have a cozy ride to school on the bus or in mommy's suv. My mom's family never had electricity in their house until the 1950's. They also worked in coal mines, my grandfather died from it.

The free 160 acres wasn't the big payday that you think it was, don't act like the land that they got in some way made them well off, or was the equivalent of a big fat welfare payoff. There was no clothing allowance, no free medical/dental/eyewear (the church ran most of the hospitals, but it's ok to cut christmas and every other offensive aspect of christianity from those communities now in favour of "freedom of every other religion"), no bitching about slow internet connections or small tv's. After all that western canada supplied 50% of our military in the wars despite having only 1/6th of the population.

There are a lot of good reasons your family stayed out east, and I think that the Syrians have it a lot easier than my family did when they came here.

You smugly throw that stat out there like a little trivia answer and I doubt that you've ever done as much hard work in a month as those homesteaders did in a day.

I just quickly googled 160 acres for sale in Alberta and came up with this:

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-land-for-sale/edmonton/160-acres-1-4-section-for-sale-lamont/1140292331?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

$324K for 160 acres in Lamont Alberta. There are 100's of condos in White Rock worth 5 times that amount. 160 acres in western alberta still isn't a huge windfall.