Islamophobia in Canada

Argus · January 30, 2016

I wonder what the results would be if practicing Christians were polled with the following questions:

You once AGAIN completely miss the point. Our western societies have broken free from the idea that God runs the country. We believe in a separation of church and state. That is our culture and practice. Islam does not believe in any such division. That is why it contains laws on how society should be run, including both family and criminal laws. That is why surveys around the world show Muslims overwhelmingly support Islamic law in their countries.

And by the way, I notice you didn't ask us to query our practicing Christians on whether homosexuals should be killed, or whether they think those who abandon Christianity should be killed, or whether those who blaspheme should be killed, or whether adulterers should be killed... Those are widely supported Islamic sanctions in much of the Muslim world, sometimes codified into law.

Argus · January 30, 2016

I fully realize that some conservatives really couldn't care less about gay people and are only feigning concern because they see it as an opportunity to complain about Muslims.

I don't particularly care about gays. That doesn't mean I'd support putting them in prison, much less executing them. I wouldn't support refusing to hire them, or firing them for being gay. I wouldn't shun one from being gay, and am basically live and let live. So are most non-religious conservatives. The notion that 'conservatives' are homophobic comes from the warped mentality of the far left and the fanaticism of their political correctness which sees all the world, no pun intended, in shades of black and white.

If you are 100% with them on every single conceivable issue, you are saintly, as they are. If you are a smidgen in doubt about any of their sacred causes then you're a blasphemer and must be destroyed at all cost. There is no tolerance in the minds of such people for differences of opinion. There is only a raging hate, and a bitterness that they can't take more direct action against the blasphemers.

Edited January 30, 2016 by Argus

eyeball · January 30, 2016

First off, I hope you're not under the impression that I'm a Christian.

-k

You are however in a predominantly Christian society so why shouldn't you be lumped in with the rest when that society is characterized as such, especially by itself?

eyeball · January 30, 2016

At that point, we're no better than those we criticize.

I actually think we're worse given how much we claim to know better.

eyeball · January 30, 2016

There is only a raging hate, and a bitterness that they can't take more direct action against the blasphemers.

That's just your own bad breath blowing back in your face.

dialamah · January 30, 2016

I actually think we're worse given how much we claim to know better.

Good point. Here (some of us) are saying: "Look at those evil, nasty, people! Why, we'd never do that! Let them rot in their misery, they have not the ability, nor even the right to join us in our exalted state!"

On Guard for Thee · January 30, 2016

I don't particularly care about gays. That doesn't mean I'd support putting them in prison, much less executing them. I wouldn't support refusing to hire them, or firing them for being gay. I wouldn't shun one from being gay, and am basically live and let live. So are most non-religious conservatives. The notion that 'conservatives' are homophobic comes from the warped mentality of the far left and the fanaticism of their political correctness which sees all the world, no pun intended, in shades of black and white.

If you are 100% with them on every single conceivable issue, you are saintly, as they are. If you are a smidgen in doubt about any of their sacred causes then you're a blasphemer and must be destroyed at all cost. There is no tolerance in the minds of such people for differences of opinion. There is only a raging hate, and a bitterness that they can't take more direct action against the blasphemers.

Funny, sounds to me more like you are describing right leaning conservatives. But since you seem to take the liberty to speak for "most" of them, I guess that's your prerogative.

eyeball · January 30, 2016

Good point. Here (some of us) are saying: "Look at those evil, nasty, people! Why, we'd never do that! Let them rot in their misery, they have not the ability, nor even the right to join us in our exalted state!"

It gets even more depraved when you consider the claim we have no choice but to treat uncivilized people uncivilly because it's what they are. You see the same thing happening when apologists defend western corporations who bribe foreign officials with the claim it's the only way we can conduct business with them. When in Rome we do like the Roman's because we have no choice, our hands are tied and ultimately, as always, we're the real victims here and we're entitled to do whatever we have to do to look after our interests.

cybercoma · January 30, 2016

I fully realize that some conservatives really couldn't care less about gay people and are only feigning concern because they see it as an opportunity to complain about Muslims. That doesn't mean it's not a legitimate issue. In Germany they're removing LGBT refugees from asylum centers to protect them from the other refugees.

If refugees are beating up their own LGBT countrymen at the asylum centers, what makes you think they'd be more tolerant once they're out in the general population?

-k

it is a legitimate issue, but it's changing the channel from Argus's hypocrisy here. If he doesn't care about gay rights for Westerners, I find it absurd to imagine that he gives a crap about gay Muslims.

Just one flex ample of his "support" for gay people: http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/2671-supreme-court-oks-same-sex-marriages/page-8#entry42084

So my point was and still is that Argus only cares about gay rights insofar as it allows him to bitch and moan about "goat herders" (his words) in the Middle East and Muslims more generally.

cybercoma · January 30, 2016

Islamophobia in Canada isn't nearly as big of a problem as Westernophobia is within refugee groups coming to Canada.

"I hate Canada! Maybe we can move there."

smh. Do you even think about the things you write?

cybercoma · January 30, 2016

I don't particularly care about gays. That doesn't mean I'd support putting them in prison, much less executing them. I wouldn't support refusing to hire them, or firing them for being gay. I wouldn't shun one from being gay, and am basically live and let live. So are most non-religious conservatives. The notion that 'conservatives' are homophobic comes from the warped mentality of the far left and the fanaticism of their political correctness which sees all the world, no pun intended, in shades of black and white.If you are 100% with them on every single conceivable issue, you are saintly, as they are. If you are a smidgen in doubt about any of their sacred causes then you're a blasphemer and must be destroyed at all cost. There is no tolerance in the minds of such people for differences of opinion. There is only a raging hate, and a bitterness that they can't take more direct action against the blasphemers.

oh, I tolerate difference of opinion just fine. I just love pointing out how thinly veiled the bigotry and ethnocentrism is in your arguments. Hell, I'd make a drinking game out of it if I wasn't certain that it would result in alcohol poisoning.

Army Guy · January 30, 2016

Our laws protect certain groups, which, from a humanitarian viewpoint, is better than living in a country where laws do not protect those same groups. But it does not make us better, if members of our society will still discriminate/beat up/kill those protected members - until we've really re-educated everyone in Canada to actually accept people of all colors, creeds, genders and sexuality, we can hardly claim to be more civilized. Being a step or two closer to to this ideal doesn't make us better than them, especially if we try to use that assumed superiority to assume they are not deserving of our help, or that they cannot join us in our 'civilized' state. At that point, we're no better than those we criticize.

Lets just say for argument sake your right, we as North Americans are no better than those we criticize...we have warts, we've done some things that we are not proud off, as well as practices that not everyone likes or shares.....We after all are human , we bleed red, share the same anatomy, regardless of color , creed, or religion.....So we are all the same.....no more civilized, not superior in any way, but rather equal....

But you can't sit there and not say we have not held out hand to help....One has to ask How many migrants has Canada accepted last year, the year before and so on...How much of our treasure have we spent assisting in humanitarian efforts ? How much blood has this country bled for other states, regardless if our citizens agree with the mission or not, or whether they were good ideas or not, I think they all hade good intentions to start with.....

Our history is full of examples....of Canadians helping out others in their time of need, WWI, WWII, Korean war, cold war, hundreds of peace keeping missions, not to mention all of the thousands of humanitarian missions we have assisted on or carried out on our own, via various agencies....once again we have not touched upon the average Canadian citizen that has helped thousands around the world via their own pocket, be it sponsoring children, giving to aid agencies....all in all Canadians are very giving....we tend to forget that....

So when some of it's citizens say we are not comfortable excepting in Muslim persons....to the point our government conceded to taking in whole families, or single women and their families , and of course the prosecuted, gay, Christian and other minorities..... we do so, not because we are racist, we do it because we are concerned, some even frighten....for our way of life, our security, our well being....it does not mean we are not willing to help, but rather want to do it in a way that suits us.....does that make us bad, or racist....if that was true deep down we are all racist.....

There are some out there saying this will not happen , your making a big deal out of nothing....maybe so, but it is already happening in Europe , we underestimated what it would take to be successful in bringing all these people to our countries, we are not prepared, both physically and mentally to accept this challenge without some major conflict .....

Army Guy · January 30, 2016

you can not just brush everyones concerns aside calling them names or placing them in some hole such as racist etc....it all has to be taken into account , before we rush off and do something that we will once again regret in the future

Army Guy · January 30, 2016

"I hate Canada! Maybe we can move there."

smh. Do you even think about the things you write?

Shady has a valid point, Syrian refugees have other factors to deal with that take precedence....such as family security....providing for them....that does not in any way mean they have to like the country they are going to, or for that matter the people within it.....

Talk to some of the military guys that went over to assist them getting here, ask them if they were all giggles and smiles....

WestCoastRunner · January 30, 2016

you can not just brush everyones concerns aside calling them names or placing them in some hole such as racist etc....it all has to be taken into account , before we rush off and do something that we will once again regret in the future

What is it that we will be regretting? Allowing 50,000 refugees in 2016?

And what did we do that we once again regretted?

eyeball · January 30, 2016

Something about warts and pride.

This is about as close as you get to acknowledgment of any western responsibility for the state of affairs in the ME and surrounding region.

And now cue the perspective of arm chair historians who flit about history seeking justifications for our behaviour like crack addicted hummingbirds looking for their next fix.

Argus · January 30, 2016

Good point. Here (some of us) are saying: "Look at those evil, nasty, people! Why, we'd never do that! Let them rot in their misery, they have not the ability, nor even the right to join us in our exalted state!"

Who is saying that?

Rue · January 30, 2016

please rise above your continued drive-by personalization/slags - carry on

Waldo you need to be called out clearly on this thread for doing what you ask others not do. Since I am often accused of personally attacking others please let me help remind you what you said and ask you, please rise above the personalizations-carry on and remember we are all family on this forum:

In post 3062 you used these responses to Kimmy:

“your interpreted attitude is self-serving and suits your agenda here..”

“Your attitude favours attacking someone providing data.”

“..your parlour tricks are profound!”

“..your phobic driven spin.”

In post 3066 to Drummindriver you state:

“…is your phobia leading you to believe that belief?”

In post 3075 to Drummindriver you state:

“..you're reading... inferring... what you want to.”

“..have pause/reservation in applying a reference perspective to the criminality exercised. You prefer to believe that looking at actual data/numbers is "minimizing", as you say. Don't be phobic towards the data as well! “

Rue · January 30, 2016

oh yes. We're so tolerant towards the LGBTQIA+ community. Gay people have been able to marry for over a decade now in Canada. In the States it has been what? A couple years? Trans people still suffer humiliation and discrimination everywhere and are often assaulted by strangers for who they are and very few people talk about accepting intersex people.

But hey, the legal system doesn't stone them. We must be doing something right.

Your comment is absurd. You think the treatment of gays in the Muslim world is about them not getting married?

You suggest in your comment its equivalent. What a ridiculous contention.

But hey then you take the intolerance that is exhibited by individuals to transgenders that happens on an individual level and you equate that with Canadian society being no better in treating gays? That's your arguement?

You think this is about people not being comfortable with transgendered people or opposing gay marriage-that's what you take of what happens too Muslims who are gay in Muslim society? That's your argument-we can't speak to the state sanctioned criminalization and killing of gays in Muslim society because gays could not get married in Canada-that's it? We should shut up?

That's your apology and rationalization argument? Right.

Yah Canadians are horrible people. We are evil. Right.

waldo · January 30, 2016

Waldo you need to be called out clearly on this thread for doing what you ask others not do.

I absolutely stand by anything you've taken the time to purposely isolate from the proper written context! If you're concerned about the use of the words 'phobia/phobic', there's no personalization there as the words reflect upon "an aversion to".

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Argus · January 30, 2016

I absolutely stand by anything you've taken the time to purposely isolate from the proper written context! If you're concerned about the use of the words 'phobia/phobic', there's no personalization there as the words reflect upon "an aversion to".

.

Oh, and here I thought they reflect upon the person using them who is incapable of discussing things intelligently without engaging in character assassination.

WestCanMan · January 30, 2016

oh, I tolerate difference of opinion just fine. I just love pointing out how thinly veiled the bigotry and ethnocentrism is in your arguments. Hell, I'd make a drinking game out of it if I wasn't certain that it would result in alcohol poisoning.

Cybercoma I want to congratulate you on being a fine liberal person. Honestly I do. A big part of our culture is accepting decent people from all walks of life and I can tell that it's really important to you.

Here's the deal though. You don't even like your fellow Canadians for what you think is their conservatism; you think that "conservatives" here are on the opposite end of the spectrum from you and "we're" not. We might not be 100% as liberal as you are but all Canadians are practically joined at the hip compared to most world views from abroad.

The difference between libs and cons on this issue just boils down to this: your liberal belief is that all humans are identical and that they can all make fine Canadians and we actually all agree on that. Race is no issue here at all. Where we differ is that you believe that religions and cultures are all equally liberal in nature.

I ask you this: were Jesus and Mohammed both liberals?

On Guard for Thee · January 30, 2016

Oh, and here I thought they reflect upon the person using them who is incapable of discussing things intelligently without engaging in character assassination.

You don't mind if I chuckle a ~~little~~, lot at that?

waldo · January 30, 2016

Oh, and here I thought they reflect upon the person using them who is incapable of discussing things intelligently without engaging in character assassination.

don't worry Argus! No one is trying to usurp your hold on that - you're still numero-uno!

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WestCanMan · January 30, 2016

I absolutely stand by anything you've taken the time to purposely isolate from the proper written context! If you're concerned about the use of the words 'phobia/phobic', there's no personalization there as the words reflect upon "an aversion to".

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Wrong waldo. You are sitting at a computer, connected to the internet, with access to google, dictionary.com, wiki and 1,000 other tools and you managed to completely botch the definition of a common word in your primary language. 'Gratz.