Islamophobia in Canada

[Argus]

Men are the main perpetrators of sexual violence against women and each other, all over the world. In every country/culture/group, there are wide differences in individuals, from men who would never step over any line when it comes to sexual contact to men who'll keep women prisoner for years, rape and murderthem . In between those extremes are men who make suggestive/lewd comments, playfully slap a woman's ass as she walks by, rub up or touch her in a crowd, stand beneath a staircase to watch them walk up, install mirrors/cameras in bathrooms/change rooms/hotel rooms, expose themselves to strangers, push for sex on a date, shrug it off, sulk, threaten or become violent when turned down; use GHB to obtain consent, or take advantage of a girl who's passed out. Some research suggests that 30% of men in the "civilized" west are willing to coerce sex to some degree, especially if they think they wouldn't get caught.

I'm curious. Do you actually know any men?

[Argus]

what's quite laughable is your continued attempt to portray all, as you say, 'asylum seekers' as... criminals... engaged in that New Years assault...

Of course, she never made any such attempt, nor has anyone else, but you know that.

[Argus]

Rather a simplistic response, and I'm disappointed in you. People who are raised with certain belief systems, religious or otherwise don't really "choose" it, and they rarely find it easy to "leave" for any reason.

Which means if you're raised to believe that women are inferiors who must be covered up and who are the posessions of men then you'll continue to believe it your entire life, even if you move from your current culture to a western country.

As for your sly reference to laws against apostasy, none of those are based on Quranic writing. Those are secular laws, so blame the governments and clerics who impose and uphold them, not the religion, and recognize that not every single Muslim is going to believe or follow that particular law.

You and others can argue semantics about how an ancient word was translated until the cows come home. It doesn't affect what happens in the real world of today, and in the real world of today most Muslims, especially in the Muslim world, interpret Apostasy as being punishable by death.

[waldo]

Of course, she never made any such attempt, nor has anyone else, but you know that.

and when statements are made that my "adding data/stats perspective" on the degree of that described criminality was a purposeful attempt to "diminish that criminality"... was "deceit by omission"... that I "was trying to make a case for the criminals/criminality"? And yes, my most inconvenient truth in providing a perspective on that criminality, one in relation to the latest 2015 single years 1.1 million registered 'asylum seekers'... that most certainly didn't fit with the alternate intent to project and criminally tag all "asylum seekers". Otherwise, why such a snit over providing data/stats... where up to that point, there had been nothing but generalized and broad-sweeping charges that aligned with the rapeRunningRampant sentiment!

[Argus]

And yes, my most inconvenient truth in providing a perspective

The perspective you seem to want to share is that rape and sexual harassment of women is no big deal and we should all stop talking about it.

that most certainly didn't fit with the alternate intent to project and criminally tag all "asylum seekers".

Which nobody did. All anyone has done is point out that these migrants come from extremely misogynistic cultures and that they don't leave their cultures and values behind them when they arrive in a western country. Thus the more of them who arrive, the greater will be the spread of misogynistic (and homophobic) cultural values and the violence which comes from that.

But you don't care about that, I know.

[waldo]

The perspective you seem to want to share is that rape and sexual harassment of women is no big deal and we should all stop talking about it.

thanks for reaffirming exactly what I stated - good on ya! Yes, to you also, attempting to provide a perspective on the degree of that described criminality, while highlighting and expressing it as criminal behaviour, that is... to you, as you say, "sharing that rape and sexual harassment of women is no big deal and we should all stop talking about it".

.

[Smallc]

What notion?

There is no proven genetic predisposition for behaviour by race or cultural group.

[kimmy]

what's quite laughable is your continued attempt to portray all, as you say, 'asylum seekers' as... criminals... engaged in that New Years assault... and "handful" of reported rapes. When I highlight those stats (that you took such exception to) and I directly speak to them in regards to their criminal nature, is that you interpreting me as saying there was no trouble at all? Or is that you saying you're ticked that putting perspective on the degree of that criminality really messes with your want to portray all, as you say, 'asylum seekers' as... criminals?

First off, I've never claimed "all" asylum seekers are criminals, so you're arguing against a straw man here. A sad spectacle.

And I've certainly never suggested they were "all" at the New Year's Eve sex-assault mob in Cologne. Some were at other sex assault mobs in Hamburg, Dusseldorf, and Stuttgart. Others probably just stayed home and didn't assault anyone that day.

Your attempt to "highlight those stats" remains hilarious.

There were a million asylum seekers let into Germany in 2015, yet just 100 complaints uh 170 complaints uh over 350 sexual assaults uh just a handful of rapes at the Cologne train stationon New Years Eve! Just a hand full of rape among one million migrants! What an astoundingly low crime rate! Surely these asylum seekers are to be commended! Not to minimize any particular incident!

so you're good then, allrightee! But uhhh... you mean, as you say, "settle on actual refugees"... when screening for actual refugees? That's settling? "Modest number"? Were you ever under an impression that more than 25K... even 50K numbers were ever in consideration? So you understand the limitation to exclude single males... oh wait, you extended on that to state "young" single males... do you understand that was done to avail your concerns over the potential for "assault and rape"? Cause I understood that action was taken to extend further on the UN’s own long-term refugee documentation measures and the heightened phobia raised within the Canadian public throughout the election campaign by Harper Conservatives... and in the interests of attempting to (further) balance security with swift humanitarian action, single males were excluded.

Frankly I don't care what the rationale behind it was, I view steering clear of the young single males as an excellent decision. I'm giving your guy credit for doing something smart, why are you complaining?

In regard to my phrase "actual refugees", I sought to differentiate people who are fleeing from an actual wars from the economic tourists who are swarming into Germany from places that aren't war zones in search of a big house and fancy car. I think it is good that we're attempting to select real live Syrian refugees and avoiding Germany's issue with all of these Algerian and Moroccan "asylum seekers".

In regard to what I term a "modest number", I don't get your complaint. I realize some contend that it's too many (and to some, any would be too many) but in terms of our population I think 25000 is a modest number. I do seem to recall some saying that 25000 is a pitifully small number when a rich nation such as ours could do more to help. I also recall someone pointing out that per capita, Germany is taking in 10x as many refugees as we are, as if it was a positive for Germany and a negative for Canada. Well, how smart does Germany look now?

-k

[Moonlight Graham]

The Catholic cleric was wrong, and I am living proof of that.

On the other hand, I don't have any friends who were raised Catholic and later converted to Hinduism.

[waldo]

First off, I've never claimed "all" asylum seekers are criminals, so you're arguing against a straw man here. A sad spectacle.

And I've certainly never suggested they were "all" at the New Year's Eve sex-assault mob in Cologne. Some were at other sex assault mobs in Hamburg, Dusseldorf, and Stuttgart. Others probably just stayed home and didn't assault anyone that day.

you just can't help yourself! Ya ya, you never claimed "all"... followed by yet another broad-sweeping "others". It's glaringly obvious why you raised such a stink at my providing the first (and to that point only) stats in an attempt to provide perspective on the degree of that criminality in the profiled city. You stated I was "attempting to diminish"... you claimed "deceit by omission"... that I was "trying to make a case for the criminals". Yes, clearly... you much preferred the wide-open, most generalized, broad-sweeping brush to tarnish... stats/numbers are apparently such an inconvenient truth to some!

.

Your attempt to "highlight those stats" remains hilarious.

There were a million asylum seekers let into Germany in 2015, yet just 100 complaints uh 170 complaints uh over 350 sexual assaults uh just a handful of rapes at the Cologne train stationon New Years Eve! Just a hand full of rape among one million migrants! What an astoundingly low crime rate! Surely these asylum seekers are to be commended! Not to minimize any particular incident!

why so perturbed over data... numbers? You obviously want to "pump them up"! What is, as you say, "hilarious", is that you don't even realize you're adding to the perspective I intended to provide... relative to that single years (2015) 1.1 million registered 'asylum seekers' number.

.

Frankly I don't care what the rationale behind it was, I view steering clear of the young single males as an excellent decision. I'm giving your guy credit for doing something smart, why are you complaining?

In regard to my phrase "actual refugees", I sought to differentiate people who are fleeing from an actual wars from the economic tourists who are swarming into Germany from places that aren't war zones in search of a big house and fancy car. I think it is good that we're attempting to select real live Syrian refugees and avoiding Germany's issue with all of these Algerian and Moroccan "asylum seekers".

In regard to what I term a "modest number", I don't get your complaint. I realize some contend that it's too many (and to some, any would be too many) but in terms of our population I think 25000 is a modest number. I do seem to recall some saying that 25000 is a pitifully small number when a rich nation such as ours could do more to help. I also recall someone pointing out that per capita, Germany is taking in 10x as many refugees as we are, as if it was a positive for Germany and a negative for Canada. Well, how smart does Germany look now?

you used the words "complaining" and 'complaint"... I did neither in my reply to you. In your back-handed compliment to the Liberal government/Trudeau, you used the words, "settling on such a modest number", and "focusing on actual Syrian refugees". I simply asked you if you thought there ever was an intent otherwise. I also reinforced for you the security focused rationale behind excluding single males... particularly given the efforts to instill fear into the Canadian public by Harper Conservatives during the election campaign.

.

[Guest]

On the other hand, I don't have any friends who were raised Catholic and later converted to Hinduism.

Neither do I. I think the tendency, as one leaves a religion, is to decrease the number of Gods.

[Argus]

thanks for reaffirming exactly what I stated - good on ya! Yes, to you also, attempting to provide a perspective on the degree of that described criminality, while highlighting and expressing it as criminal behaviour, that is... to you, as you say, "sharing that rape and sexual harassment of women is no big deal and we should all stop talking about it".

Waldo, you need to learn to quit while you're way behind. You're akin to a guy up to his waist in quicksand who keeps windmilling his arms around and screaming loudly because he thinks that will get him out. It won't. You just sink deeper every day.

[WestCoastRunner]

Your attempt to "highlight those stats" remains hilarious.

Frankly I don't care what the rationale behind it was, I view steering clear of the young single males as an excellent decision. I'm giving your guy credit for doing something smart, why are you complaining?

-k

Yea, we know you don't care on the rationale but you should. JT is not allowing single male Syrian refugees because he has reacted to Islamaphobia in Canada inappropriately.

These single men will be left with some pretty horrific choices: fight for Assad, fight for rebels, fight for ISIS or be killed for not choosing to fight by no doubt horrific means. Or they can start a long journey to a refugee camp.

The hostility and lack of empathy to Syrian refugees on this board never ceases to amaze me.

[Moonlight Graham]

Yea, we know you don't care on the rationale but you should. JT is not allowing single male Syrian refugees because he has reacted to Islamaphobia in Canada inappropriately.

You can argue it's racial and gender profiling, a reaction to either Islamophobia or the stats that say young Muslim men are more likely to be terrorists. You could also argue that the decision is because women and children are the most vulnerable. The latter is probably not the case because the elderly are among the most vulnerable too but we don't hear about us targeting them, because of course the elderly are unwanted newcomers because they're net drain on the economy and social services and won't bear more children.

[WestCoastRunner]

You can argue it's racial and gender profiling, a reaction to either Islamophobia or the stats that say young Muslim men are more likely to be terrorists. You could also argue that the decision is because women and children are the most vulnerable. The latter is probably not the case because the elderly are among the most vulnerable too but we don't hear about us targeting them, because of course the elderly are unwanted newcomers because they're net drain on the economy and social services and won't bear more children.

I don't believe for a second this gender profiling is based on stats.

[Argus]

The hostility and lack of empathy to Syrian refugees on this board never ceases to amaze me.

Are you sponsoring any Syrians?

[WestCoastRunner]

Are you sponsoring any Syrians?

Give me a break please.

[Argus]

Give me a break please.

So not so much empathy as all that...

[WestCoastRunner]

So not so much empathy as all that...

An individual can support refugees through offering volunteer services such as English speaking skills, offering accommodations, transportation services. It doesn't all come down to private sponsorship to support refugees. I do get that you are all about the money.

[Argus]

An individual can support refugees through offering volunteer services such as English speaking skills, offering accommodations, transportation services. It doesn't all come down to private sponsorship to support refugees. I do get that you are all about the money.

I'm all about the money since it's my money people like you generously volunteer to pay for these people.

[WestCoastRunner]

I'm all about the money since it's my money people like you generously volunteer to pay for these people.

I know. I get it.

[Hudson Jones]

...and the point is you do generalize about Jews based on the actions of a select few. You use words such as Zionist and Israeli to do so. So this makes you lacking in any credibility. You engage in the very thing with Jews you claim others should not with Muslims..

Once again, you are saying things that don't exist. At least not outside of your head and in reality.

I have never generalized Jews. Some of the leading advocates for human rights for Palestinians are Jews.

Don't confuse yourself and others when describing Zionism. Being anti-Zionist is not anti-Jewish.

Zionism, unfortunately, is an ideal that is okay with trampling all over another person's human rights for its own gains. If there is a Zionist that is not okay with the treatment of Palestinians and the land stolen from Palestinians (as according to international law), then they are certainly an anomaly.

[kimmy]

Yea, we know you don't care on the rationale but you should. JT is not allowing single male Syrian refugees because he has reacted to Islamaphobia in Canada inappropriately.

And I think he has reacted to reasonable concerns appropriately.

These single men will be left with some pretty horrific choices: fight for Assad, fight for rebels, fight for ISIS or be killed for not choosing to fight by no doubt horrific means. Or they can start a long journey to a refugee camp.

Where do you imagine we are getting our refugees from?

Canadian planes aren't dropping into the middle of a war-zone, scooping up refugees, and flying off while the battle rages around them.

Canada is getting registered refugees from camps in Jordan, Lebanon, and Turkey.

The male refugees we've said no to aren't in the war zone. They're not in immediate danger from either Assad or ISIS.

-k

[WestCoastRunner]

And I think he has reacted to reasonable concerns appropriately.

Where do you imagine we are getting our refugees from?

Canadian planes aren't dropping into the middle of a war-zone, scooping up refugees, and flying off while the battle rages around them.

Canada is getting registered refugees from camps in Jordan, Lebanon, and Turkey.

The male refugees we've said no to aren't in the war zone. They're not in immediate danger from either Assad or ISIS.

-k

It's disgusting your argument.

[WestCoastRunner]

I'm sorry. This filth disguists me.

Edited January 27, 2016 by WestCoastRunner