Islamophobia in Canada

[WestCoastRunner]

I find it far more telling that you don't condemn such a thing as barbaric. But, then I remember...Religion trumps Feminism and even sex crimes....Then it all makes sense.

It has nothing to do with this thread.

[DogOnPorch]

It has nothing to do with this thread.

Sure it does. Islamophobia is the irrational fear of Islam. Am I to simply accept these aspects of Islam? How about the Eid slaughter? Is that acceptable?

So many questions...no answers.

[WestCoastRunner]

Sure it does. Islamophobia is the irrational fear of Islam. Am I to simply accept these aspects of Islam? How about the Eid slaughter? Is that acceptable?

So many questions...no answers.

To be honest, this thread has become too encompassing. It needs to be broken down.

[DogOnPorch]

To be honest, this thread has become too encompassing. It needs to be broken down.

Or just rename it "ISLAM".

[WestCoastRunner]

Or just rename it "ISLAM".

All we need to do is look at the number of posts to see a breakdown in the focus of this thread.

[waldo]

I find it far more telling that you don't condemn such a thing as barbaric.

and... in Canada? What is, as you say, telling: you're not condemning Canada for having the same legal age of marriage as Pakistan. Is your scrutiny of your declared "barbarism" somewhat... selective?

and... in Canada?

[DogOnPorch]

All we need to do is look at the number of posts to see a breakdown in the focus of this thread.

There have been countless threads on exactly the same subject...or Israel...or whatever.

[WestCoastRunner]

There have been countless threads on exactly the same subject...or Israel...or whatever.

And how many of those posts have gone off topic? Im waiting for your responses to the other posters regarding child marriages.

[DogOnPorch]

and... in Canada? What is, as you say, telling: you're not condemning Canada for having the same legal age of marriage as Pakistan. Is your scrutiny of your declared "barbarism" somewhat... selective?

and... in Canada?

You're free to support Pakistan's laws. The punishment for defying the old 1929 Child Marriage Act is the equivalent of about $14.00 Canadian...if one is caught. Multiple offenses might land you in jail for an entire month...if convicted.

The current civil law designates 16 as the legal age of marriage, but in practice sharia allows girls as young as nine to be married, providing they show signs of puberty. This reflects the primacy of sharia over civil law.

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/push-to-ban-child-marriages-dubbed-blasphemy-in-pakistan-20160117-gm7nvf.html

[Big Guy]

It appears that not all Muslim woman refugees are subservient to their men. Some even learn the language but they are Muslims and (according to some of the bright lights here) should be watched - those who practice the religion of violence. Here is one that is easy to watch:

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/profile-of-maryam-monsef-from-refugee-to-cabinet-minister-1.2740708

Well, she has a University degree from Trent University, is 31 years old, speaks the language well - but - she is after all a Muslim refugee from Afghanistan and the bright lights on this board know what that means - eh?

[waldo]

and... in Canada?

You're free to support Pakistan's laws.

again... in Canada? You've now received multiple replies from more than one MLW member highlighting the same legal age of marriage in Pakistan and Canada; posts pointedly looking for you to resolve/rationalize this piece of your displayed phobia from a Canadian perspective, in Canada. For some telling reason, you won't touch this point - why is that?

[DogOnPorch]

It appears that not all Muslim woman refugees are subservient to their men....etc.

Is it my favorite Afghan time? Mine would be Abdul Ahad Mohmand. You might need to Google him to figure out who he is.

Edited January 18, 2016 by DogOnPorch

[DogOnPorch]

and... in Canada?

again... in Canada? You've now received multiple replies from more than one MLW member highlighting the same legal age of marriage in Pakistan and Canada; posts pointedly looking for you to resolve/rationalize this piece of your displayed phobia from a Canadian perspective, in Canada. For some telling reason, you won't touch this point - why is that?

The 1929 Act (16 years old) was part of the old Raj...that would be the British. As the article mentions, Sharia trumps civil law.

[Hudson Jones]

The 1929 Act (16 years old) was part of the old Raj...that would be the British. As the article mentions, Sharia trumps civil law.

What a non-answer. But that's typical of your approach, when you've been caught in one of your double standards.

By the way, no law trumps Canadian law in Canada. It doesn't matter how much you want to promote the fear of it. We have over 1 million Muslims in Canada and Sharia law or Muslim men wanting to marry underaged girls has never been an issue.

[kimmy]

You have made direct bigoted comments towards Muslims in the past, so at least you're changing your tone a bit and reducing the generalizing. That's a good thing. However, the generalizing is still there. You are trying to tell us that the people who are coming here can't control themselves and don't care about the laws of the host country. Many Muslims in the Western countries, who you are giving a pass to now, were once refugees, so your fear of being attacked by them contradicts what you are trying to say.

I'm confident that given enough time, and pressure to integrate, migrants will adopt to western values.

I have two major concerns. The first is newcomers arriving faster than they can be socialized to our way of life (ie, what Germany and other European nations are now experiencing.)

The second is that given a sufficiently large local community, newcomers simply won't have any incentive to integrate. Some communities in Europe are now experiencing this... Birmingham England and Malmo Sweden are examples often mentioned. For a non-Muslim example, Richmond BC.

Right now, Canada doesn't have either of these two problems. Let's learn from the experience of other nations and not repeat their mistakes.

A life lesson: Judge people on their individual behaviour and not generalizations.

I realize that some people hold the view that we should just welcome as many as we can, and those who turn out to be rapists and whatever else could simply be sent home again. The "gotta break a few eggs" theory. But I'm of the view that elected officials' first duty is to the safety the citizens they represent.

We know that some portion of Middle Eastern Muslims hold views that are extremely hostile to the safety of western women, and I'm of the view that waiting until after women get victimized is too late to figure out which ones are safe and which ones aren't.

That's why I'm extremely supportive of the Trudeau government's decision to focus on women, children, and families, and steer clear of young single men.

Overall, I am confident in our law and justice system will protect us from criminals. Whether it's a fondling Muslim from Morocco or a white pedophile.

Given the failures in Germany and Sweden, I'm not sure that such faith is justified. In particular, given that law enforcement agencies in those countries prioritized covering up misdeeds by migrants above the safety of their own citizens, I think that such faith is quite misplaced.

-k

[kimmy]

The discussion about pedophiles seems like an effort to derail the topic by creating a false equivalence between pedophiles--who are considered deviants and predators and treated as such when discovered-- and Muslim dudes who don't know how to act around women who don't conform to their ideas of modesty-- which is the mainstream in the countries where we get refugees from.

-k

[Hal 9000]

I think Kimmy makes a good point about Richmond...or Vancouver. The chinese haven't assimilated, not to western ideals anyway. I don't have any issues with the chinese, but it's clear that Vancouver is adjusting to them more than they're adjusting to Canada.

The same thing will happen with the muslims, they'll not politely and go on with their own business until they have es0'ablished communities, then the problems will start. Everything that happens in Canada from art, fashion, politics, philosophy, trends, music, economy etc happens in Europe first. We should be wise to this and learn from it.

[Hudson Jones]

I'm confident that given enough time, and pressure to integrate, migrants will adopt to western values.

I have two major concerns. The first is newcomers arriving faster than they can be socialized to our way of life (ie, what Germany and other European nations are now experiencing.)

I was in Northern Europe 2 years ago. We traveled through Sweden, Norway and Finland. The type of hysteria of what that place has become is just that; hysteria. The typical lazy news outlets repeat things that are not true. Those countries are still beautiful, progressive and perhaps a tad bit less 'white' than they were 15 years ago, when I was last there in my early 20's.

Germany is another story but Canada is NOT allowing in too many refugees. 10,000? 25,000? That's nothing. That's a drop in the bucket. We have been averaging thousands of refugees a year for the past 50 years. This, despite the major slow down during the Harper decade. We're still doing okay. People are hysterical over nothing.

The second is that given a sufficiently large local community, newcomers simply won't have any incentive to integrate. Some communities in Europe are now experiencing this... Birmingham England and Malmo Sweden are examples often mentioned. For a non-Muslim example, Richmond BC.

Right now, Canada doesn't have either of these two problems. Let's learn from the experience of other nations and not repeat their mistakes.

I think your perspective and view of change is wrong. We are always changing as a culture. You cannot stop time. We have gone through numerous waves of immigration from different parts of the world and we have survived it. Indians in the early 1900's. A big wave of Irish and Italians, thereafter. European Jews in the 20's, 30's and 40's. Hungarians, Chinese, Vietnamese, Middle Easterns, Eastern Europeans, etc. etc... There has usually been a big uproar, to a different degree, whenever a new wave came to Canada. These, mostly Arab refugees are no different. The Islamophobia movement has created an unnecessary uproar. 25,000 people is nothing compared to some other bigger waves. Like the over 60,000 Vietnamese we brought in in 79 and 80. Their culture was much different than ours and we're doing okay.

Nothing has stayed the same during Canada's history. The only constant is change. Our culture is constantly changing and being influenced by different cultures, moral values, technology and everything else in our environment. We all influence each other.

You can argue that some changes are bad but usually, many changes are for the best. As a woman, you have never been in a better position in our history.

You would be surprised how much of a positive effect you can have by welcoming people, instead of being suspicious of them. They are here to make a better life for their families, especially their children. When we approach them with open arms, there is less chance of them isolating themselves in their own groups. Nothing will be perfect, but we should always strive to treat others as we would want to be treated.

Edited January 18, 2016 by Hudson Jones

[Hudson Jones]

I think Kimmy makes a good point about Richmond...or Vancouver. The chinese haven't assimilated, not to western ideals anyway. I don't have any issues with the chinese, but it's clear that Vancouver is adjusting to them more than they're adjusting to Canada.

The same thing will happen with the muslims, they'll not politely and go on with their own business until they have es0'ablished communities, then the problems will start. Everything that happens in Canada from art, fashion, politics, philosophy, trends, music, economy etc happens in Europe first. We should be wise to this and learn from it.

I don't normally go into Richmond that often, but when I do, I make it a point to drop into a Chinese restaurant with good reviews on Yelp. Even though there are more asians in the restaurant, my family and I feel welcomed. We ask questions and try to learn about the list of food on the menu. I see people speaking Chinese, but the kids are speaking English to each other and responding to their parents in English.

My family and I feel okay with this change. We don't feel threatened.

Edited January 18, 2016 by Hudson Jones

[kimmy]

I don't normally go into Richmond that often, but when I do, ...

My family and I feel okay with this change. We don't feel threatened.

The idea wasn't to suggest that people should feel threatened when they go to Richmond. It was to provide an example of an "ethnic enclave" or as Mrs Merkel put it "a parallel society". I was in Richmond last month and had no problems. I used to live near Ottawa's Chinatown neighborhood and the only conflict I can recall was that some of the residents felt that a funeral home should be forced to relocate because they were concerned about evil spirits. I just point out Richmond as an example of a community where newcomers have no real need to integrate into the larger culture.

And in the case of a Li'l Hong Kong neighborhood, people don't find that too worrying because the Chinese community are by and large such an agreeable group. I'd feel no concerns walking through Li'l Hong Kong. I'd be considerably more worried about walking through Li'l Riyadh or Li'l Karachi.

-k

[DogOnPorch]

What a non-answer. But that's typical of your approach, when you've been caught in one of your double standards.

By the way, no law trumps Canadian law in Canada. It doesn't matter how much you want to promote the fear of it. We have over 1 million Muslims in Canada and Sharia law or Muslim men wanting to marry underaged girls has never been an issue.

I assure you, in 1929 Pakistan didn't exist and the British were firmly in charge India. They made the laws.

You know...the same Empire that made the rules here in Canada.

Edited January 18, 2016 by DogOnPorch

[Hal 9000]

The idea wasn't to suggest that people should feel threatened when they go to Richmond. It was to provide an example of an "ethnic enclave" or as Mrs Merkel put it "a parallel society". I was in Richmond last month and had no problems. I used to live near Ottawa's Chinatown neighborhood and the only conflict I can recall was that some of the residents felt that a funeral home should be forced to relocate because they were concerned about evil spirits. I just point out Richmond as an example of a community where newcomers have no real need to integrate into the larger culture.

And in the case of a Li'l Hong Kong neighborhood, people don't find that too worrying because the Chinese community are by and large such an agreeable group. I'd feel no concerns walking through Li'l Hong Kong. I'd be considerably more worried about walking through Li'l Riyadh or Li'l Karachi.

-k

Of course the point was missed. Every acknowledgement of difference is perceived as discrimination or fear.

[Hudson Jones]

The idea wasn't to suggest that people should feel threatened when they go to Richmond. It was to provide an example of an "ethnic enclave" or as Mrs Merkel put it "a parallel society". I was in Richmond last month and had no problems. I used to live near Ottawa's Chinatown neighborhood and the only conflict I can recall was that some of the residents felt that a funeral home should be forced to relocate because they were concerned about evil spirits. I just point out Richmond as an example of a community where newcomers have no real need to integrate into the larger culture.

And in the case of a Li'l Hong Kong neighborhood, people don't find that too worrying because the Chinese community are by and large such an agreeable group. I'd feel no concerns walking through Li'l Hong Kong. I'd be considerably more worried about walking through Li'l Riyadh or Li'l Karachi.

-k

That was a response to my response to Hal.

My comment to your post is above that.

[Smallc]

The larger point being missed; Canada's larger culture is completely dependent on the people who live here. It has always been thus. Richmond is part of what makes Canada what it is, just as much as (probably more than) Kim city.

[Hal 9000]

The larger point being missed; Canada's larger culture is completely dependent on the people who live here. It has always been thus. Richmond is part of what makes Canada what it is, just as much as (probably more than) Kim city.

And?