Hydraboss Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 Then that's my fault for being unclear. I should have stated "a Somalian gang kills a white guy at a mall in Canada". Never meant to lead you to believe I was referring to anything international. My entire post was about things happening in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 (edited) If we're going to keep stats , then let's keep stats on everyone. What are the stats on Muslims in Canada who commit hate crimes against women, gays and Jews? The Muslim that assaulted me did it because I am a woman who dared to tell him No, he couldn't show up 4 hours late for a doc appt and expect to be put in. Stats-wise, I'm sure that shows up as a simple assault, but it wasn't. And I'm sure it wasn't recorded as an assault by a Muslim or a hate crime perpetrated by a Muslim. Edited August 2, 2017 by Goddess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydraboss Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 16 minutes ago, Goddess said: I'm sure it wasn't recorded as an assault by a Muslim or a hate crime That is exactly my point. How can anyone say that "hate crimes against muslims are up XX%" with any certainty? I'd like to see those same crime stats broken down by ethnic and religious per capita. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 16 minutes ago, Goddess said: If we're going to keep stats , then let's keep stats on everyone. What are the stats on Muslims in Canada who commit hate crimes against women, gays and Jews? The Muslim that assaulted me did it because I am a woman who dared to tell him No, he couldn't show up 4 hours late for a doc appt and expect to be put in. Stats-wise, I'm sure that shows up as a simple assault, but it wasn't. And I'm sure it wasn't recorded as an assault by a Muslim or a hate crime perpetrated by a Muslim. It's horrible that you were assaulted. I have been assaulted as well, by a man who didn't think a woman should talk back or say no; only difference is that he wasn't Muslim and sex was part of putting me in my place. I think stats should be kept as well. My belief that the threat posed by Muslim men is no greater than the threat posed by non-Muslim men is no more valid than your apparent belief that Muslim men do pose a bigger threat, without actual data to back it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydraboss Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, dialamah said: without actual data to back it up ...and THIS is why these discussions can never go anywhere.... Stats based on race/religion/culture will never be kept in Canada because there is a huge fear from both sides of any debate that the numbers could prove them wrong. If the numbers showed that muslim men committed 10x the violent crime then the "left" would have no choice but to restrict immigration for them. If the data showed that muslim men committed 10x LESS violent crime than other groups, the "right" would have to stop crying out against immigration for them. Neither side will ever take that chance. Much easier just to call anyone who questions it at all a "bigot, racist xenophobe" and then scream "islamophobia!!!!" - problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 1 minute ago, Hydraboss said: ...and THIS is why these discussions can never go anywhere.... Stats based on race/religion/culture will never be kept in Canada because there is a huge fear from both sides of any debate that the numbers could prove them wrong. If the numbers showed that muslim men committed 10x the violent crime then the "left" would have no choice but to restrict immigration for them. If the data showed that muslim men committed 10x LESS violent crime than other groups, the "right" would have to stop crying out against immigration for them. Yeah, just think of the problems we could solve if we had accurate info and no axe to grind. Much easier just to call anyone who questions it at all a "bigot, racist xenophobe" and then scream "islamophobia!!!!" - problem solved. Screaming about how the end of Canada as we know it is at hand and that we must save the women and children from the alien horde that approaches is equally effective at solving 'the problem'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 34 minutes ago, Goddess said: If we're going to keep stats , then let's keep stats on everyone. What are the stats on Muslims in Canada who commit hate crimes against women, gays and Jews? The Muslim that assaulted me did it because I am a woman who dared to tell him No, he couldn't show up 4 hours late for a doc appt and expect to be put in. Stats-wise, I'm sure that shows up as a simple assault, but it wasn't. And I'm sure it wasn't recorded as an assault by a Muslim or a hate crime perpetrated by a Muslim. I work in the male dominated IT industry and have witnessed sexual harassment and condescending, insulting behaviour from men to women. These are perpetrated by white men mostly. Should we include these stats as hate crimes against women perpetrated by white men? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydraboss Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, WestCoastRunner said: Should we include these stats as hate crimes against women Another example of idiocy - this is NOT a hate crime. Sexual harassment is a crime for sure but it's comments like this that skew statistics and the reason we can't believe a damn thing that gets published under this banner. edit->but we absolutely SHOULD be keeping track of all crimes and in this case it would be placed in the "white guy" column Edited August 2, 2017 by Hydraboss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydraboss Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, WestCoastRunner said: condescending, insulting behaviour This, however, is not a freaking crime. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 52 minutes ago, dialamah said: I think stats should be kept as well. My belief that the threat posed by Muslim men is no greater than the threat posed by non-Muslim men is no more valid than your apparent belief that Muslim men do pose a bigger threat, without actual data to back it up. I read a research report from the UK that said Muslim women are 8X more likely to be victims of domestic violence. (I will try to find the info again, I don't have it in front of me at the moment.) If that is correct, then I think we can assume they are violent towards all women because of their beliefs about women. Yes, I know not all of them have those views, but I do believe there is a higher incidence of it amongst Muslim men and that it's because they grow up believing women are property, must be covered at all times and that their own masculinity is entwined with the behaviour of their women, daughters, sisters, etc. Thus, honour killings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 I do think it is difficult to put a finger on this type of violence. As some point out, violence against women occurs in every society, religion and culture. The individual family, the culture, the religion, the community they are a part of - how can you tell what motivates this violence? In any one case, there could be multiple causes. There are always multiple systems of power at play simultaneously, not simply adding to each other, but also reinforcing and sustaining each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Goddess said: I read a research report from the UK that said Muslim women are 8X more likely to be victims of domestic violence. (I will try to find the info again, I don't have it in front of me at the moment.) If that is correct, then I think we can assume they are violent towards all women because of their beliefs about women. Yes, I know not all of them have those views, but I do believe there is a higher incidence of it amongst Muslim men and that it's because they grow up believing women are property, must be covered at all times and that their own masculinity is entwined with the behaviour of their women, daughters, sisters, etc. Thus, honour killings. Since this thread is about Islamaphobia in Canada, I will post this link which I have previously posted that lists of names of female victims of domestic homicide in Canada (2015). From this list I can spot perhaps 3 or 4 Muslim names out of 153. Given your post above, I would think there would be 8x more Muslim women killed then non-Muslim women. Your post is simply inflaming hatred towards Muslim men and this list points out there is no higher incidence of it among Muslim men in Canada. in fact there is far, far less women killed in Canada by Muslim men. Source: http://ohegarty.blogspot.ca/p/counting-dead-women-canada-2015.html Edited August 2, 2017 by WestCoastRunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 36 minutes ago, WestCoastRunner said: Your post is simply inflaming hatred towards Muslim men I suspect that pretty much any study that showed a higher rate of violence amongst Muslims could be used to "inflame hatred". Conversely, it could also be used to come up with a plan to lower that rate. But that will never happen if we can't first admit there is a problem. Frankly, it's not just Islam. Any religion that teaches and inculcates from a very young age that women are lesser human beings will have a higher rate of violence against women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 5 minutes ago, Goddess said: I suspect that pretty much any study that showed a higher rate of violence amongst Muslims could be used to "inflame hatred". Conversely, it could also be used to come up with a plan to lower that rate. But that will never happen if we can't first admit there is a problem. Frankly, it's not just Islam. Any religion that teaches and inculcates from a very young age that women are lesser human beings will have a higher rate of violence against women. I'm confused why there isn't more Muslim women on this list? There appears to be more Aboriginal women on this list than Muslims. I wonder why that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 7 hours ago, jacee said: You tell them what to wear, think, do, say, be? I'm curious what they'd say about that. Lol No, but then I don't tell anyone else to do that either. If you're suggesting that expressing disgust at the forcing of women into black tents at 40C is akin to telling them what to wear, think, do, say, be, then I would have to say I vehemently disagree. I would also have to say that I have as much right to express an opinion on that as you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, jacee said: How does it impact you if Muslim women choose to wear a burka or hijab? It's really not your business. No, it's no-one's business. I'm only concerned with those who do not. Same as FGM. I don't care if a grown woman chooses to get her parts mutilated. I'm very much against anyone being forced into it though. Edited August 2, 2017 by bcsapper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 9 minutes ago, WestCoastRunner said: I'm confused why there isn't more Muslim women on this list? There appears to be more Aboriginal women on this list than Muslims. I wonder why that is. It's an excellent question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 Just now, Goddess said: It's an excellent question. So we are in agreement that domestic killings against Muslim women are far far less then against non-Muslims. Good to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 (edited) Deleted. Mean. Edited August 2, 2017 by bcsapper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, WestCoastRunner said: So we are in agreement that domestic killings against Muslim women are far far less then against non-Muslims. Good to know. Unless you're using it to inflame hatred against aboriginals...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, WestCoastRunner said: So we are in agreement that domestic killings against Muslim women are far far less then against non-Muslims. Good to know. If only "aboriginal" women could get as much support as "Muslim women" these days, eh ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: If only "aboriginal" women could get as much support as "Muslim women" these days, eh ? And the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 7 hours ago, jacee said: http://globalnews.ca/news/2634032/hate-crimes-against-muslim-canadians-more-than-doubled-in-3-years/ In 2015, police across the country recorded 159 hate crimes targeted at Muslims, up from 45 in 2012, representing an increase of 253 per cent. And that was before 6 people were murdered, and Enormous’ spike in hate crime reports in Montreal since mosque attack http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/montreal-man-accused-of-uttering-threats-and-inciting-hatred/wcm/a894db62-1ad0-43f7-9231-79d4ca97d2cc You ignored my point. There is a difference between hate crimes and terrorist attacks by jihadists. You still don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 8 hours ago, jacee said: This is about some white men telling Muslim women they can't wear a head or face covering. It's not their business at all what any women wear. On the contrary. It is their business what their community is like. It is their business how it changes. It is their business if their tax dollars are being used to import a hostile foreign population of women hating, gay hating, Jew hating, Christian hating religious fanatics they don't want implanted here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 8 hours ago, jacee said: How does it impact you if Muslim women choose to wear a burka or hijab? It's really not your business. It impacts the community in which I live to have a growing population of foreigners who reject my culture and values in favour of their home culture and values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts