Islamophobia in Canada

[Guest]

I wonder what sort of spin will attend the reportage of guards raping Muslims in deportation camps?

You didn't hear this here first, I seem to recall warning about the day we'd be rounding up Muslims ten years or more ago when discussing the course the world was on.

That's where Islamophobia has been taking us, but probably in Europe first. Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back.

You've never been to Europe, have you? You've never read about, nor seen any movies about it. You've never seen it on television, or heard about it on the radio. No-one has ever told you anything about it.

[Guest]

These are shitty people. Are they shitty people because they are Muslim or because of their cultural upbringing? I mean, what about Turks? Iranians?Both of those predominantly Muslim people have a huge population in Germany. Do the groping shitty people from North Africa represent all Muslims? Do they even represent all North Africans?

This is the issue with your generalizations.

I would say because of their cultural upbringing. I would say their culture is influenced by religion in the general way, such as it is in many places

[kimmy]

Every step of the way, people who questioned the wisdom of installing dictators in socially backwards lands have been met with accusations of being a lefty with a bleeding heart.

And the response to concerns that it was dangerous to punish socially backwards lands for these dictators has been "hey man, that's not our fault, its just that these people are socially backwards. Besides which you're just a bleeding heart liberal"

Complaining has been a waste of time for everyone.

So the women assaulted in Cologne deserved what happened, because of the geopolitics of past decades?

-k

[Guest]

So the women assaulted in Cologne deserved what happened, because of the geopolitics of past decades?

-k

And because they didn't keep an arm's length. Don't forget about the arm's length.

[eyeball]

So the women assaulted in Cologne deserved what happened, because of the geopolitics of past decades?

-k

Yeah that's what I said kimmy.

Obviously you're not moderating for miscomprehension.

[tworivers]

The sad fact is that nothing will happen with the refugees until something really horrible happens.

I have been very fortunate in my life to be able to not just see places but live there for a year or so. I spent 11 years in the USA and had just flown out of New York that morning on my way to Alaska . The date was 9/11 . After that I worked overseas in Ukraine and then the UAE. now I have seen many things but what I remember most is how radical people were in the Arab countries and how we had to live in a compound because there were people (muslims) who wanted to kill us. Now the belief in those countries is not even close to what we perceive they are ,it is worse. Now most of those refugees coming here will not live our way , will not associate outside there denomination and will do little to help anyone outside there own group. You can say some story about how you heard it is untrue and how you seen a story on the news that that says they are just like us but they are not and there view of how the world will be is very very different from ours. I will say again that when people come here to live they will have to adopt our culture and history and our way of life , what they do at home is their business but outside that they should expect to have the same rights and freedoms the rest of us have with no one above anyone else and this is our biggest problem ....Multiculturalism is a total failure and a lie but we will have to learn that lesson the hard way because of all the people who read about sunny ways and nothing on the worlds history.

[eyeball]

Has anyone actually seen anything tangible about this so-called coordinated attack on German women by 1000 asylum seekers? I've seen next to nothing beyond breathless allegations, three suspects and zero arrests.

In the spirit of characterization through association, am I supposed to overlook the fact that Cologne is also the home of the far-right Pro Germany Citizens' Movement, a movement born out of the extreme right-wing German League for People and Homeland?

It's January 6th and not a single charge stemming yet out of the 100 or more attacks by 1000 organized perpetrators? I think I'm pretty safe in calling bullshit.

[kimmy]

Yeah that's what I said kimmy.

Obviously you're not moderating for miscomprehension.

I'm struggling to follow your line of thought here.

You clearly feel that the West bears some responsibility for the state of affairs in the nation these asylum-seekers came from.

However I don't see why that means the average German on the street should tolerate such overwhelming numbers of people coming into the country if this is the result. Why isn't putting a moratorium, or at least a cap on the number, an option?

-k

[Guest]

Has anyone actually seen anything tangible about this so-called coordinated attack on German women by 1000 asylum seekers? I've seen next to nothing beyond breathless allegations, three suspects and zero arrests.

In the spirit of characterization through association, am I supposed to overlook the fact that Cologne is also the home of the far-right Pro Germany Citizens' Movement, a movement born out of the extreme right-wing German League for People and Homeland?

It's January 6th and not a single charge stemming yet out of the 100 or more attacks by 1000 organized perpetrators? I think I'm pretty safe in calling bullshit.

I'm not saying for a minute that you should believe anything but your own eyes and ears, but I will say that the lack of charges is not indicative of the lack of criminal activity where minorities are concerned. We saw that in the UK.

By bullshit, do you mean that it didn't happen, or that the right wing party set it up?

[eyeball]

I will say again that when people come here to live they will have to adopt our culture and history and our way of life , what they do at home is their business but outside that they should expect to have the same rights and freedoms the rest of us have with no one above anyone else and this is our biggest problem ....Multiculturalism is a total failure and a lie but we will have to learn that lesson the hard way because of all the people who read about sunny ways and nothing on the worlds history.

I've heard it said that when we're in Muslim lands installing dictators or sitting in rooms adjacent to their torture chambers we were just trying to fit in and conform to local mores.

[Hal 9000]

Has anyone actually seen anything tangible about this so-called coordinated attack on German women by 1000 asylum seekers? I've seen next to nothing beyond breathless allegations, three suspects and zero arrests.

In the spirit of characterization through association, am I supposed to overlook the fact that Cologne is also the home of the far-right Pro Germany Citizens' Movement, a movement born out of the extreme right-wing German League for People and Homeland?

It's January 6th and not a single charge stemming yet out of the 100 or more attacks by 1000 organized perpetrators? I think I'm pretty safe in calling bullshit.

So, now your suggesting that it didn't happen? That 100 german women are lying? I find that a stretch.

I'd say it's more likely that given the state of things, that the germans would like to not press charges and hope it goes away, hope people like you profess that it didn't happen.

The victims of this will likely be "victimized twice" - as they say.

[eyeball]

I'm struggling to follow your line of thought here.

You clearly feel that the West bears some responsibility for the state of affairs in the nation these asylum-seekers came from.

Wow, you figured that out all by yourself? It's about time. I also said we bear some responsibility for the state of retarded social development our depredations caused.

However I don't see why that means the average German on the street should tolerate such overwhelming numbers of people coming into the country if this is the result. Why isn't putting a moratorium, or at least a cap on the number, an option?

-k

That's not why the average German on the street was told to tolerate such overwhelming numbers of people. They were told they needed to save their economy from destruction. The average German on the street, like here, bears responsibility for being ignorant of just how badly people from immigrant countries were treated while growing our economies, how badly that maltreatment affected people that lived there, how long that effect would last and then blindly opening their doors to them .

As Canadians we should know better than anyone how the effects of a powerful nation abusing another can be multi-generational in scope. There's just no excuse for this sort of ignorance, not in this day and age and there wasn't 60 years ago either.

Cap immigration all you want, but if you do so filled with outrage and in lieu of any mention of the above it'll be in vain. In any case, wait until climate change refugees start showing up by their millions. Departation camps will probably morph into something even darker.

Does it even really matter anymore? We were completely hooped no matter what we do now years ago. That's why I keep referring to popcorn, there's really nothing left to do but analyze the wouldas, shouldas and couldas while watching what is unfolding - which is probably the end of civilization.

Edited January 7, 2016 by eyeball

[eyeball]

So, now your suggesting that it didn't happen? That 100 german women are lying? I find that a stretch.

I don't find it a stretch for right-wing extremists to lie through their teeth at all.

[bush_cheney2004]

Does it even really matter anymore? We were completely hooped no matter what we do now years ago. That's why I keep referring to popcorn, there's really nothing left to do but analyze the wouldas, shouldas and couldas while watching what is unfolding - which is probably the end of civilization.

This is contradictory nonsense...."civilization" was created by the very things you fear as certain doom.

What is unfolding is what has always unfolded. We even had camps !

[tworivers]

I've heard it said that when we're in Muslim lands installing dictators or sitting in rooms adjacent to their torture chambers we were just trying to fit in and conform to local mores.

They were beheading and gutting each other long before anyone from here went over there and I see you are still into the conspiracy theory bull instead of actually seeing what is and has happened over the last 100 years....pity really. Oil in a word so if you think we are installing dictators and are looking for someone to blame ..look in the mirror or read and learn. To be honest which I know you righteous really hate , if it was not for growth in industry and money over here they would still be throwing rocks at each other and riding camels , that is not a racist statement but true as before the oil boom they were a stagnant culture.

[eyeball]

This is contradictory nonsense...."civilization" was created by the very things you fear as certain doom.

What is unfolding is what has always unfolded. We even had camps !

We also had a planet for the easy taking. Now, not so much.

[bush_cheney2004]

We also had a planet for the easy taking. Now, not so much.

More contradictions.....the lumber industry or fisheries in BC cry about the same thing....after they destroyed both.

The planet doesn't care one bit. Islamophobia is a short term fad in comparison.

Edited January 7, 2016 by bush_cheney2004

[eyeball]

I see you are still into the conspiracy theory bull instead of actually seeing what is and has happened over the last 100 years...Oil in a word

Just oil? I think you forgot the commies.

[eyeball]

The planet doesn't care one bit. Islamophobia is a short term fad in comparison.

So's civilization...as highly an over-rated fad if there ever was one.

[bush_cheney2004]

So's civilization...as highly an over-rated fad if there ever was one.

Islamophobia today...civilization tomorrow...no big deal. Some folks think they are so hard done by...laughable compared to the "good 'ole days".

[eyeball]

No kidding. Islamophobia will be the halcyon days soon enough.

[bush_cheney2004]

No kidding. Islamophobia will be the halcyon days soon enough.

Now you've got it...lighten up. The best is yet to pass.

[WestCanMan]

Hey, what about the "fight them there or fight them here" mentality or all those other excuses for Afghanistan and now our involvement in that Sunni - Shia civil war. And what about the "Islam is a violent and dangerous religion". You mean we might be making a mistake getting involved?

I made my point that we shouldn't have been blindly supporting the Israelis no matter what atrocities they committed for all these years in my first 30 posts here. I even sent a letter to my my MP back when Harper was the chief. That's another story.

I find it ironic that you try so hard to prove that we should treat these people from the middle east like fellow humans and receive them without hesitation here but at the same time you say that they aren't our fellow humans so we should let the more powerful groups over there massacre the weaker ones. Which one is it bigguy?

It's a difficult situation when you have to make the decision to kill people or deny those displaced by war a safe haven. Here's an idea or two:

1) There are humans in the middle east who need protection. If we can help them we should.

2) There are a lot of people there who like nothing more than massacring innocents, we should be very selective of who we allow across our border.

3) 400,000 Christians were chased out of Syria by these friendly muslims just a while back. Where was the hue and cry?

4) Some people try so hard to be more politically correct than anyone else that they throw common sense and objectivity out the window in favour of a blind obsession with standing on soapboxes expressing the most liberal viewpoint they can dream up at every turn. I don't have much respect for those kinds of opinions, I don't think those people do enough research or put enough actual thought into the things that they say.

[WestCanMan]

Don't be naive. It's not religion.

The 9/11 attackers were not religious. The motivation is revenge for what the West has done or what they think the West is responsible for:

In Osama Bin Laden's November 2002 "Letter to America", he explicitly stated that al-Qaeda's motives for their attacks include: Western support for attacking Muslims in Somalia, supporting Russian atrocities against Muslims in Chechnya, supporting the Indian oppression against Muslims in Kashmir, the Jewish aggression against Muslims in Lebanon, the presence of US troops in Saudi Arabia, US support of Israel, and sanctions against Iraq.

Link

Osama can suck it if there's a hell. Humans get involved and help other humans. The middle east is just another place on earth where there are humans, there's no imaginary line in the sand where humans should have to say "nope, it's just muslims killing other muslims. None of our biz".

[WestCanMan]

These are shitty people. Are they shitty people because they are Muslim or because of their cultural upbringing? I mean, what about Turks? Iranians?Both of those predominantly Muslim people have a huge population in Germany. Do the groping shitty people from North Africa represent all Muslims? Do they even represent all North Africans?

This is the issue with your generalizations.

Did you just admit that there was such a thing as a cultural difference, while still trying to act like you're not a racist? Why do you get the benefit of a double standard here?