Big Guy Posted November 14, 2015 Report Posted November 14, 2015 The Taliban in Afghanistan were Afghanistan citizens who took power. The West invaded, the Taliban blended back into their country (with the support of locals) and waited - slowly picking off the invaders. They won. The ISIS folks in Syria and Iraq are Syrian and Iraqi citizen who took power. Their base is the Iraqi Republican Guard (about 70,000 elite Sunni fighting forces). The West goes in and bombs - since they arte already locals they blend back into the local populace - slowly pick off the invaders. This is their land, they have nowhere to go. They live there. They have all of the time in the world until the West gets tired of sending body bags back home and then they will again take power. ISIS is not a group of aliens who dropped in from flying saucers, they do not wear uniforms. They blend into their land when confronted and reappear at will. ISIS cannot be bombed out, killed, obliterated or captured. They are Iraqis, Syrians, Libyans, Lebanese ... who want us out. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
WestCoastRunner Posted November 14, 2015 Report Posted November 14, 2015 Or Russia...And Russia. Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 14, 2015 Report Posted November 14, 2015 Crunch time for Canada's new rock star PM....what will he do in support of France ? Take his white feather and run away as fast as he can ? The world waits for his statement of support and leadership (not really). Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
ReeferMadness Posted November 14, 2015 Report Posted November 14, 2015 Exactly. Obama was criticized for only going in with 50 and not much of a strategy. I think the rules of engagement should dramatically change. In what way? Seriously. ISIS grew out of an attack on Iraq and had its roots in Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda grew out of the Mujahideen that was funded by the US to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan. At what point do people sit down and say "jeez, maybe this isn't working?" Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 14, 2015 Report Posted November 14, 2015 At what point do people sit down and say "jeez, maybe this isn't working?" When the Liberal Party wins in Canada ? But the rest of the world still has to deal with it. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
WestCoastRunner Posted November 14, 2015 Report Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) The Taliban in Afghanistan were Afghanistan citizens who took power. The West invaded, the Taliban blended back into their country (with the support of locals) and waited - slowly picking off the invaders. They won. The ISIS folks in Syria and Iraq are Syrian and Iraqi citizen who took power. Their base is the Iraqi Republican Guard (about 70,000 elite Sunni fighting forces). The West goes in and bombs - since they arte already locals they blend back into the local populace - slowly pick off the invaders. This is their land, they have nowhere to go. They live there. They have all of the time in the world until the West gets tired of sending body bags back home and then they will again take power. ISIS is not a group of aliens who dropped in from flying saucers, they do not wear uniforms. They blend into their land when confronted and reappear at will. ISIS cannot be bombed out, killed, obliterated or captured. They are Iraqis, Syrians, Libyans, Lebanese ... who want us out. And yet Sinjar was taken back with the help of the locals, the U .S. And Russia. They seemed to know who ISIS was dressed in wolf costumes. They are not godlike. Edited November 14, 2015 by WestCoastRunner Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
WestCoastRunner Posted November 14, 2015 Report Posted November 14, 2015 In what way? Seriously. ISIS grew out of an attack on Iraq and had its roots in Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda grew out of the Mujahideen that was funded by the US to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan. At what point do people sit down and say "jeez, maybe this isn't working?" I don't know what way. I'm not a military strategist but when my family and grandchildren fly to Europe I want to be dam sure my country is doing everything it can to protect them. Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
Big Guy Posted November 14, 2015 Report Posted November 14, 2015 And yet Sinjar was taken back with the help of the locals, the U .S. And Russia. They seemed to know who ISIS was dressed in wolf costumes. They are not godlike. I hope you are correct, but Sinjar has been won and lost a few times. Remember in Afghanistan, we won all of Afghanistan according to our military and government and what was the final result? Why should this "excursion" end up any more successful than Vietnam, Somalia, Afghanistan and now Iraq/Syria (ISIS)? Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
WestCoastRunner Posted November 14, 2015 Report Posted November 14, 2015 I hope you are correct, but Sinjar has been won and lost a few times. Remember in Afghanistan, we won all of Afghanistan according to our military and government and what was the final result? Why should this "excursion" end up any more successful than Vietnam, Somalia, Afghanistan and now Iraq/Syria (ISIS)? And why should it not? Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
capricorn Posted November 14, 2015 Report Posted November 14, 2015 Great. And who do you propose to retaliate against? The beauty, RM, is that this is not a decision for me to make, thank goodness. I have an elected government that is supposed to act in my best interest (and yours too) and I trust them, and a dedicated pubic service to make the appropriate decisions. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
Big Guy Posted November 14, 2015 Report Posted November 14, 2015 And why should it not? I believe that when you approach the same problem, the same way, then you should expect the same result. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
ReeferMadness Posted November 14, 2015 Report Posted November 14, 2015 I don't know what way. I'm not a military strategist but when my family and grandchildren fly to Europe I want to be dam sure my country is doing everything it can to protect them. And do you want to be equally sure that we're not just making the situation worse? Somebody in the countries in the middle east is supporting ISIS, trading with them, funding them, sending them weapons, buying their oil. It seems like it would be a good idea to figure out who that is. And figure out what it is exactly that is attracting people to join in the first place. I don't buy the whole Islam-is-evil schlock. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 14, 2015 Report Posted November 14, 2015 The beauty, RM, is that this is not a decision for me to make, thank goodness. I have an elected government that is supposed to act in my best interest (and yours too) and I trust them, and a dedicated pubic service to make the appropriate decisions. Good point....your new PM seems to be more interested in repealing laws directed at safety and security than providing his own ideas and solutions. PM Harper made his position quite clear on such matters. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Topaz Posted November 14, 2015 Report Posted November 14, 2015 BC, u have a lot of things to say about Canada in this topic but what about the USA, one of the super-power nations with a military weapons and why have your country stopped ISIS? The US has more soldiers than ISIS yet u can't stop them. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 14, 2015 Report Posted November 14, 2015 BC, u have a lot of things to say about Canada in this topic but what about the USA, one of the super-power nations with a military weapons and why have your country stopped ISIS? The US has more soldiers than ISIS yet u can't stop them. So does Canada....why can't Canada stop them ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest Posted November 14, 2015 Report Posted November 14, 2015 And do you want to be equally sure that we're not just making the situation worse? Somebody in the countries in the middle east is supporting ISIS, trading with them, funding them, sending them weapons, buying their oil. It seems like it would be a good idea to figure out who that is. And figure out what it is exactly that is attracting people to join in the first place. I don't buy the whole Islam-is-evil schlock. Islam is not evil. Their interpretation/version is. Quote
Argus Posted November 14, 2015 Report Posted November 14, 2015 We can probably thank Edward Snowden and his ilk for doing their level best to warn terrorist groups about the need to improve their communications methods to keep their plans secret from those evil western intelligence agencies. That way they're better able to coordinate attacks without unfair interuption. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 14, 2015 Report Posted November 14, 2015 Uh-oh for Canada...France is talking about a NATO response. What will/would Trudeau do ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
ReeferMadness Posted November 14, 2015 Report Posted November 14, 2015 The beauty, RM, is that this is not a decision for me to make, thank goodness. I have an elected government that is supposed to act in my best interest (and yours too) and I trust them, and a dedicated pubic service to make the appropriate decisions. So, I hear a lot of people here and on my TV screen talking about a whole bunch of things. Go bomb somebody. Reconsider changing C51. Reconsider the refugees. I demand that my country not do anything until someone can confirm that the actions we take will make things better and not worse. And as I've pointed out multiple times, someone amongst the group of countries we consider "allies" is helping ISIS. And I believe that intelligence exists about who that someone is and we don't want to take them on because we don't want to offend them. Unless and until someone is going to be honest about wtf is really going on, fighting ISIS is like spitting in the wind. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
WestCoastRunner Posted November 14, 2015 Report Posted November 14, 2015 And do you want to be equally sure that we're not just making the situation worse? Somebody in the countries in the middle east is supporting ISIS, trading with them, funding them, sending them weapons, buying their oil. It seems like it would be a good idea to figure out who that is. And figure out what it is exactly that is attracting people to join in the first place. I don't buy the whole Islam-is-evil schlock. I don't buy the Islam is evil mantra either and we also know why young people join up. That's no mystery. Not sure what your point is here? Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
ReeferMadness Posted November 14, 2015 Report Posted November 14, 2015 I don't buy the Islam is evil mantra either and we also know why young people join up. That's no mystery. Not sure what your point is here? Maybe you can enlighten me - why are people joining up? Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
WestCoastRunner Posted November 14, 2015 Report Posted November 14, 2015 So, I hear a lot of people here and on my TV screen talking about a whole bunch of things. Go bomb somebody. Reconsider changing C51. Reconsider the refugees. I demand that my country not do anything until someone can confirm that the actions we take will make things better and not worse. And as I've pointed out multiple times, someone amongst the group of countries we consider "allies" is helping ISIS. And I believe that intelligence exists about who that someone is and we don't want to take them on because we don't want to offend them. Unless and until someone is going to be honest about wtf is really going on, fighting ISIS is like spitting in the wind. Well I agree that we need more Intel. Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
WestCoastRunner Posted November 14, 2015 Report Posted November 14, 2015 Maybe you can enlighten me - why are people joining up? You can google it and find out why. It's not rocket science. I'm not going to do your homework for you. Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
-1=e^ipi Posted November 14, 2015 Report Posted November 14, 2015 I demand that my country not do anything until someone can confirm that the actions we take will make things better and not worse. Will you apply similar demands to the issue of climate change? Quote
eyeball Posted November 14, 2015 Report Posted November 14, 2015 Uh-oh for Canada...France is talking about a NATO response. Against who? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
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