Bogus Refugees: Trudeau reinstates full benefits, enhanced for others

[jacee]

So Western civilization progressed and everyone else regressed. I know all about the glories of ancient India and Persia, thanks. But they were more advanced than European cultures because of their leadership and the culture and values of their people. Those cultures, values and leaders now leave an awful lot to be desired. Corruption is endemic in much of the world, not just among leaders but throughout societies where any sense of "that man is my brother" has long given way to "How can I screw that man over?". Meanwhile, religious fanaticism (which doomed the countries which are now predominantly Muslim to centuries of ignorance) continues to rise.

I haven't seen a great deal of "that man is my brother" in several years of your posts, Argus.

.

[jacee]

Uhm, no, in the absence of political donations to the parties (which always went mostly to the Liberals anyway) I don't see this political payoff happening.

No it's pretty well covered up.

Hint: Check historical oil sands 'startups' for subsidy vs profit.

Then check stockholders political donations.

.

[ToadBrother]

So Western civilization progressed and everyone else regressed.

Not exactly. Western society gained military and trade supremacy, and then went around "colonizing" attractive parts of the world. The British, French and Spanish empires weren't built on the gosh-darnit hard work of Brits, French and Spaniards, but on seizing vast tracts of territory in the Americas, Eurasia and Oceania.

I know all about the glories of ancient India and Persia, thanks. But they were more advanced than European cultures because of their leadership and the culture and values of their people. Those cultures, values and leaders now leave an awful lot to be desired. Corruption is endemic in much of the world, not just among leaders but throughout societies where any sense of "that man is my brother" has long given way to "How can I screw that man over?". Meanwhile, religious fanaticism (which doomed the countries which are now predominantly Muslim to centuries of ignorance) continues to rise.

Religious fanaticism is a symptom, not the disease, and Europe suffered it just as badly as anywhere else. Heck, the first actual general European war, the Thirty Years War, was a bloody religious war between Protestants and Catholics.

[Argus]

I haven't seen a great deal of "that man is my brother" in several years of your posts, Argus.

Unlike progressives I don't need to brag about how noble I am - even though I am - noble, that is.

[Argus]

No it's pretty well covered up.

Hint: Check historical oil sands 'startups' for subsidy vs profit.

Then check stockholders political donations.

.

Hint: Donations from politicians were drastically reduced under Harper, and corporate donations banned as one of Chretien's final acts.

Therefore..

Any matching of donations to subsidies would probably implicate the Liberal Party of Canada.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Argus

[Argus]

Not exactly. Western society gained military and trade supremacy, and then went around "colonizing" attractive parts of the world. The British, French and Spanish empires weren't built on the gosh-darnit hard work of Brits, French and Spaniards, but on seizing vast tracts of territory in the Americas, Eurasia and Oceania.

Western society "gained military and trade supremacy" is an interesting statement. You seems to suggest this simply appeared out of the blue, perhaps gifted to us by a churlish white supremacist deity. Because otherwise the only explanation would be that social, economic and scientific advances in Europe were responsible for the increasing ability of western powers to pay for and project military forces which were better armed and led than those they opposed.

Religious fanaticism is a symptom, not the disease, and Europe suffered it just as badly as anywhere else. Heck, the first actual general European war, the Thirty Years War, was a bloody religious war between Protestants and Catholics.

Okay but that was four hundred years ago, and the hard liners lost. Meanwhile the hard liners have been in charge of the Islamic world since about the same period, dragging it down year by year while sullenly blaming the West for their own scientific, social and economic incompetence.

[Wilber]

Empires come and go. Before the British Empire, the largest in history was the Mongol Empire. Founded by military supremacy (and downright terror). In South Africa the Brits supplanted the Zulu Empire. Also founded by military supremacy.

Was colonialism good in the end? No way of knowing but without it, all the countries of the Americas we know today, as well as Australia, New Zealand, modern India and others would not exist.

[ToadBrother]

Western society "gained military and trade supremacy" is an interesting statement. You seems to suggest this simply appeared out of the blue, perhaps gifted to us by a churlish white supremacist deity. Because otherwise the only explanation would be that social, economic and scientific advances in Europe were responsible for the increasing ability of western powers to pay for and project military forces which were better armed and led than those they opposed.

In reality, it was in large part an accident of geography. Europe is essentially a mountain-ringed peninsula, and Western Europe was largely protected from the migrations and invasions from the Asian Steppe that did so much damage to Medieval Islamic civilization, China, India and Byzantium. The latter was critical because a lot of learned people fled to Italy as the Eastern Empire collapsed, and most historians feel there is at least some connection between the Renaissance and the collapse of that empire. But the damage done to Medieval Islam was incalculable; great centers of learning like Baghdad, with their libraries and scholars was so great that even the height of the Ottoman Empire (under the descendants of Turkic invaders) may have acquired a lot of territory but never really recovered the advantages that the high Muslim era had produced.

Why all these contortions were going on, Western Europe was largely left alone. It had its crises to deal with, like the Black Plague, but in an ironic way, the plague was one of those once-in-a-millennium demographic makeovers that remade Europe. While the rest Eurasia, which had been, up to the late Medieval period, as advanced and in many ways much more advanced (believe me, you would rather have had a serious illness in medieval Madrid or Baghdad than Paris or London). But the fundamental tools of Western domination were all invented elsewhere (hence Diamond's "Guns" and "Steel" in "Guns, Germs and Steel").

Probably the single biggest factor in Europe's dominance wasn't Spanish, French or English weapons and ships, but that greatest of Renaissance innovations; the modern bank, invented in Italy. The creation of the first banking and capital markets was a revolution that allowed the infant European empires to fund colonization. I will give Europe that, but everything else; the gunpowder, the steel, the grain crops, the livestock, heck even the writing systems, were all invented outside of Europe.

At any rate, I digress. The fact is that Europe got bloody lucky through a sheer accident of geography. The hoards of invaders coming out of the Asian Steppe did manage to smash the periphery; such as Russia under that Tatars, but Western Christendom was left free to build up more advanced economic systems, and it was the mercantilism that was transformed into early capitalism that was responsible for much of Europe's dominance.

Okay but that was four hundred years ago, and the hard liners lost. Meanwhile the hard liners have been in charge of the Islamic world since about the same period, dragging it down year by year while sullenly blaming the West for their own scientific, social and economic incompetence.

I won't deny that Islamic civilization partially collapsed; though in its defense, as I mention above, that collapse had a lot to do with external factors. Even Islamic Spain (the most advanced state in Western Europe at the time) largely failed because the degradation of the rest of Islamic civilization left it vulnerable to the Reconquista. And one only has to look at the delightful and enlightened replacement the rule of Ferdinand and Isabella was to Moorish Spain to see how far much of Europe had to go.

[Michael Hardner]

TB, I also read and enjoyed Diamond's books but his ideas are not wholly accepted by academia.

Furthermore - he did, I believe, credit Christianity with providing the social building blocks of a prosperous society: personal property, and the duality of church and state ... I think those were elements mentioned. China couldn't have venture capitalism as the king owned everything. He didn't see the value in naval exploration and trade.

[Michael Hardner]

Thread drift ...

[cybercoma]

But should a working Canadian pay taxes for a hospital so that a refugee can receive care

In short, yes we should. I can't for the life of me understand why you would deny healthcare to people who've put everything they own on their backs and escaped war torn countries to start all over again. We spend even more taxes dropping bombs, but I don't see you complaining about that being wasteful spending.

[PIK]

Maybe these people should stand up for their country and people instead, Lets move to Canada. Soon the whole world will just be failed states. I cant understand why Canadians want to cut their own throats. Whiteman guilt I guess.

[Black Dog]

Maybe these people should stand up for their country and people instead, Lets move to Canada. Soon the whole world will just be failed states. I cant understand why Canadians want to cut their own throats. Whiteman guilt I guess.

Booked your flight yet?

[Big Guy]

In short, yes we should. I can't for the life of me understand why you would deny healthcare to people who've put everything they own on their backs and escaped war torn countries to start all over again. We spend even more taxes dropping bombs, but I don't see you complaining about that being wasteful spending.

I agree. The cost on one missile in this war is about $500,000:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/emil-mella/how-many-public-schools-d_b_7615094.html

The figure so far for the USA is that it has cost Americans about $1 billion so far in this mission which has resulted in all these refugees looking for a new country.

I have no idea what it is costing Canada since the military will not release those figures. I would suggest that the cost of initial healthcare for these refugees coming to Canada is the equivalent of 1 or 2 missiles. Does not seem like much in that context.

[bush_cheney2004]

...I have no idea what it is costing Canada since the military will not release those figures.

Why not ? What happened to "transparency" and "accountability" ? Go to the Americans...as usual.

[dialamah]

In short, yes we should. I can't for the life of me understand why you would deny healthcare to people who've put everything they own on their backs and escaped war torn countries to start all over again.

Seen on FB today: If only we had a seasonally appropriate story about Middle Eastern people seeking refuge being turned away by the heartless".

[Cherrytwo]

Those who state "make the rich pay" don't get it - it is the middle class who end up paying. Money does fall from the skies. Expect higher taxes at all levels thanks to the tax and spend mentality of the Liberals and lefties everywhere

[Argus]

The figure so far for the USA is that it has cost Americans about $1 billion so far in this mission which has resulted in all these refugees looking for a new country.

Let us briefly examine the logic, or lack thereof, behind this claim.

The US has been bombing strategic locations controlled by ISIS for about a year. Yet the Syrian civil war began four years ago, and refugees have been pouring out of the region and into safe haven countries ever since.

There has been no uptick in refugees due to the bombing. The only uptick in refugees came as hundreds of thousands left their save havens in Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey for Europe after the German chancellor and the Swedish prime minister said they wold open their doors wide.

In sum, the statement had no logic or fact to it, but was just another example of the 'blame the west' mentality of knee jerk progressives.

[Argus]

Seen on FB today: If only we had a seasonally appropriate story about Middle Eastern people seeking refuge being turned away by the heartless".

How many refugees are you welcoming into your home?