Topaz Posted November 5, 2015 Report Posted November 5, 2015 The liberal government released what in the agreement and which sectors will have problems with it. The Auto sector, which already has been hit hard, again would be hit and jobs may be on the line. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-tpp-trade-deal-highlights-1.3257397 Quote
ToadBrother Posted November 5, 2015 Report Posted November 5, 2015 The liberal government released what in the agreement and which sectors will have problems with it. The Auto sector, which already has been hit hard, again would be hit and jobs may be on the line. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-tpp-trade-deal-highlights-1.3257397 A little disappointed that Buy America survives, it seems to fly in the face of the whole point of a multilateral trade agreement. Quote
ReeferMadness Posted November 9, 2015 Report Posted November 9, 2015 The more I learn about it, the more it seems that the Conservatives were so desperate for an agreement to help them win the election, they were willing to give away the farm. Jim Balsillie is calling it the "worst thing in policy that Canada's ever done". He fears it would give American firms an edge and cost Canadian companies more money because they would have to pay for someone else’s ideas instead their own. On top of that, Balsillie believes the structure could prevent Canadian firms from growing as it would also limit how much money they can make from their own products and services. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Smallc Posted November 9, 2015 Report Posted November 9, 2015 That kind of analisys makes me less certain that the Liberals will sign it. Quote
August1991 Posted November 9, 2015 Report Posted November 9, 2015 That kind of analisys makes me less certain that the Liberals will sign it.As they should. The TPP largely means that we can receive from abroad more cheaply than we can produce at home. ===== Smallc, would you force us to sew our own clothes? Leftists: It's all about control. Quote
Wilber Posted November 9, 2015 Report Posted November 9, 2015 As they should. The TPP largely means that we can receive from abroad more cheaply than we can produce at home. ===== Smallc, would you force us to sew our own clothes? Leftists: It's all about control. And for some it is all about cheap stuff. Little thought on how to earn the money to pay for it. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
eyeball Posted November 9, 2015 Report Posted November 9, 2015 Leftists: It's all about control. This is a ridiculous comment to make in the context of the issues surrounding this agreement were stuck with and who made it and how and why. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 9, 2015 Report Posted November 9, 2015 Jim Balsillie is calling it the "worst thing in policy that Canada's ever done". Oh what a shame....Canadian companies would have to come up with their own ideas. RIM has already lost IP patent infringement lawsuits in the past....so sad ! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
angrypenguin Posted November 9, 2015 Report Posted November 9, 2015 Oh what a shame....Canadian companies would have to come up with their own ideas. RIM has already lost IP patent infringement lawsuits in the past....so sad ! +1. Boo boo Balsillie. Go back to irrelevance. Quote My views are my own and not those of my employer.
kimmy Posted November 9, 2015 Report Posted November 9, 2015 The TPP largely means that we can receive from abroad more cheaply than we can produce at home. We can already buy goods from abroad more cheaply than we can produce them at home. That argument just doesn't fly anymore. This agreement doesn't provide me, as a Canadian consumer, access to anything that I don't already have. This agreement isn't for consumers, it's for corporations. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
Wilber Posted November 9, 2015 Report Posted November 9, 2015 We can already buy goods from abroad more cheaply than we can produce them at home. That argument just doesn't fly anymore. This agreement doesn't provide me, as a Canadian consumer, access to anything that I don't already have. This agreement isn't for consumers, it's for corporations. -k In fact, it will drive the price of some of the things we do produce up because it will expand the customer base of our producers, allowing them to get higher prices. Not necessarily a bad thing for the country but not a good one for Canadian consumers. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Michael Hardner Posted November 9, 2015 Report Posted November 9, 2015 This agreement doesn't provide me, as a Canadian consumer, access to anything that I don't already have. It's not about access, it's about prices. If you want to pay more for things then you can do that. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted November 9, 2015 Report Posted November 9, 2015 In fact, it will drive the price of some of the things we do produce up because it will expand the customer base of our producers, allowing them to get higher prices. That just doesn't make any sense. If they can make margin selling things to Canada then they will do so. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Smallc Posted November 9, 2015 Report Posted November 9, 2015 That just doesn't make any sense. If they can make margin selling things to Canada then they will do so. I'm not sure how I feel about this agreement anymore. I don't think any Canadian government would sign what they thought of as a bad deal. They said, the Conservatives were desperate at the time to have a good news story. Maybe this isn't a good news story after all. Quote
TimG Posted November 9, 2015 Report Posted November 9, 2015 ]Jim Balsillie is calling it the "worst thing in policy that Canada's ever done".Balsillie's argument makes no sense. Every tech company in Canada is already subject to the US patent code because they need to do business in the US. It is not clear what he thinks is going to change. Quote
angrypenguin Posted November 9, 2015 Report Posted November 9, 2015 Balsillie's argument makes no sense. Every tech company in Canada is already subject to the US patent code because they need to do business in the US. It is not clear what he thinks is going to change. His irrelevance. Quote My views are my own and not those of my employer.
Wilber Posted November 9, 2015 Report Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) That just doesn't make any sense. If they can make margin selling things to Canada then they will do so. Maybe you should look at why beef prices are so high an ask yourself why adding 150 million Japanese to the customer base won't affect what we pay. Even if they could, do you think Canadian beef producers will take the risk and go to the expense of expanding their herds so they can sell for less than they are already getting? We are being told that Alberta needs pipelines to the coast so it can get a better price for its oil from Asian markets instead of being tied to the US. Why do you think that principle would only apply tto oil and why do think it would make oil cheaper for Canadians if others are prepared to pay more for it? Edited November 9, 2015 by Wilber Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Michael Hardner Posted November 9, 2015 Report Posted November 9, 2015 Maybe you should look at why beef prices are so high an ask yourself why adding 150 million Japanese to the customer base won't affect what we pay. Because it doesn't for other things. Why do we pay more for phones but less for DVDs and more for .... It's called 'perceived value pricing'. Even if they could, do you think Canadian beef producers will take the risk and go to the expense of expanding their herds so they can sell for less than they are already getting? No - they're expanding their herds for the HIGHER margins. They are already making margin on Canadian sales. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Wilber Posted November 9, 2015 Report Posted November 9, 2015 Like I said, do some research as to why prices are so high now. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Michael Hardner Posted November 9, 2015 Report Posted November 9, 2015 Like I said, do some research as to why prices are so high now. You're claiming that prices are high for beef today because of trade deals ? If so, then you have made the positive claim so it's up you to provide a cite. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted November 9, 2015 Report Posted November 9, 2015 Never mind - I did your work for you because I was curious: Drought http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/08/04/beef-prices-could-rise-fu_n_7919904.html Low CDN $ http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/04/20/beef-meat-prices-canada-inflation_n_7101174.html High feed prices, disease http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/high-beef-prices-to-stay-for-years-to-come-says-guelph-analyst-1.3092515 Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Wilber Posted November 9, 2015 Report Posted November 9, 2015 Never mind - I did your work for you because I was curious: Drought http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/08/04/beef-prices-could-rise-fu_n_7919904.html Low CDN $ http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/04/20/beef-meat-prices-canada-inflation_n_7101174.html High feed prices, disease http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/high-beef-prices-to-stay-for-years-to-come-says-guelph-analyst-1.3092515 I'd already done that. That's why I brought it up. So we have a limited supply of beef in North American. Australian beef prices are also a record highs for the same reasons. Why would you think increasing demand ever further would not drive prices up? Why would a Canadian beef producer sell me that beautiful piece of tenderloin I just saw at the butcher's for $26.99 per pound, if someone in Japan is willing to pay him $40 or $50. Even if we could expand our herds, it would take time, money and a short term reduction in supply. Cows aren't manufactured, they have to reproduce. You can't use them for breeding and slaughter them for meat at the same time. If I was a beef producer who just about lost his shirt a short time ago, I would have to think long and hard about expanding into a possible future glut when I am already making record profits without added risk. There would need to be incentives and lower prices for my product wouldn't be one of them. I'm saying that trade agreements will drive up the price of some things that we produce. We will pay world price and if that is higher than we are paying now, that's what it will be. That's why we are entering into an agreement in the first place, so our producers can sell more and get better prices for their goods. Kimmy is dead right when she says trade agreements are intended for producers, not consumers. That's not a bad thing, we need to produce and sell to support an economy and the value of our currency. Deals themselves aren't bad, but is this one a good one for Canada. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
overthere Posted November 9, 2015 Report Posted November 9, 2015 I'm not sure how I feel about this agreement anymore. I don't think any Canadian government would sign what they thought of as a bad deal. They said, the Conservatives were desperate at the time to have a good news story. Maybe this isn't a good news story after all. The timing of this deal was not in the control of the Canadian government. Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
Michael Hardner Posted November 9, 2015 Report Posted November 9, 2015 So we have a limited supply of beef in North American. Australian beef prices are also a record highs for the same reasons. Why would you think increasing demand ever further would not drive prices up? Because I assumed that supply could scale up with demand. Am I wrong ? Why would a Canadian beef producer sell me that beautiful piece of tenderloin I just saw at the butcher's for $26.99 per pound, if someone in Japan is willing to pay him $40 or $50. Because it costs less than $27 per pound to produce, so you can make money in both countries selling it. Even if we could expand our herds, it would take time, money and a short term reduction in supply. Now we're talking brass tacks. What's the scale-up time ? These agreements usually phase in, so I would imagine that it would work in tandem with that. I'm saying that trade agreements will drive up the price of some things that we produce. We will pay world price and if that is higher than we are paying now, that's what it will be. Our prices aren't protected now, though. I'm having trouble seeing how a more open market will cause unprotected prices to rise. Kimmy is dead right when she says trade agreements are intended for producers, not consumers. That's not a bad thing, we need to produce and sell to support an economy and the value of our currency. Deals themselves aren't bad, but is this one a good one for Canada. That's rhetorical, though. Economics says that prices should also fall in these situations. I don't want to "argue" this, though, as I'm nowhere near an authority but I'd prefer to explore with people who have differing ideas.... Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted November 9, 2015 Report Posted November 9, 2015 Pharma companies, for example, make much less money in Canada selling the same drugs they sell elsewhere but they still do it. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
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