Trudeau's Committment to Syrian Refugees - 25,000 by Year End

[cannuck]

Work for virtually nothing, you mean.

People coming from third world countries have very low standards in a lot of things. They don't expect to be treated well by their employer, or paid very well They don't expect to be living in a nice home or to have a car or other luxuries. They're content to have enough to eat. It's not surprising the fast food industry loves them. They'll show up every day, and work long hours without complaint for little pay because they don't expect anything better.

Is it your position that Canadian workers should have similarly low expectations of life?

It is my position that faced with no work or cheap work, Canadians (and Americans) need to seriously consider taking what is available.

We make it far too convenient to simply stay at home as a ward of the state while people with a bit of ambition will do the work we are "too good" to do.

In case you didn't notice, that is part of the whole mess of why we give our money to China instead of the widget factory down the road - we are too good to make widgets.

You just demonstrated my point eloquently.

BTW: EVERY Vietnamese refugee who came here many years ago with barely a word or two of English too every and any job they could get. Try going out into that community and see what their children and grandchildren are doing today (hint: they sure as hell are not on unemployment enjoyment!)

[DogOnPorch]

I guess you don't understand debates. When you are asked to provide evidence of your claims, you should provide them. Why didn't you provide them?

And I'm not sure what this has to do with the planet?

Permission to treat the witness as hostile, Your Honor.

What grade are you in?

Now, now...this is the second time my character has been attacked. I'm beginning to think this is personal.

[Accountability Now]

You still haven't provided facts. Do you have any information on comparison of 'benefits' between Canada and the other countries? You are the one that brought this up but you seem to lack substance.

This is what he's referring to:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/syrian-refugees-not-keen-to-move-to-canada-immediately-ottawa-says/article27561756/?service=mobile

[WestCoastRunner]

This is what he's referring to:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/syrian-refugees-not-keen-to-move-to-canada-immediately-ottawa-says/article27561756/?service=mobile

This speaks absolutely nothing to the 'benefits' he had alluded to. I give up on expecting a response. You should not feel obligated to cha.

[Accountability Now]

This speaks absolutely nothing to the 'benefits' he had alluded to. I give up on expecting a response. You should not feel obligated to cha.

The quote you captured of his was about them not wanting to come. I had to go back a few pages to see the benefits comment.

This article alludes to why Canada doesn't attract them:

"The mean-spirited politics of the past decade, the policies denying health care to asylum seekers and the cruel temporary-worker rules and family-reunification restrictions are well known overseas, and the best-qualified people would rather go elsewhere. We think were a hot date, but we really need to upgrade our Tinder profile."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/no-surprise-here-canada-a-turnoff-for-some-refugees/article27600848/

[DogOnPorch]

A lot of folks are going to have to go without adopting a pet 'Syrian'.

This speaks absolutely nothing to the 'benefits' he had alluded to. I give up on expecting a response. You should not feel obligated to cha.

Fer goodness sake...lol.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?q=098&t=11

Which apparently isn't as good as Sweden's deal...but then, Vikings and Muslims have a long history re: trade...so perhaps that's an element.

[Argus]

It is my position that faced with no work or cheap work, Canadians (and Americans) need to seriously consider taking what is available.

We make it far too convenient to simply stay at home as a ward of the state while people with a bit of ambition will do the work we are "too good" to do.

You know what? I completely agree. But here's the thing about capitalism; it's supposed to work for employees as well as corporations. Wages are supposed to rise when a job is unpleasant and unsatisfying in order to attract sufficient workers to do the job. That hasn't been happening in Canada. Instead, employers have been lobbying the government to bring in foreigners who will continue to do the crappy, dead end jobs for dirt cheap wages.

Edited December 31, 2015 by Argus

[Smallc]

"I'm entitled to my entitlements!"

A famous phrase coined by a notorious Liberal...

Of course, he actually was.

From Wikipedia:

On leaving the Royal Canadian Mint, Dingwall called for an independent audit which was completed by PricewaterhouseCoopers who found “the expenses fell within the guidelines”. A second independent review by the law firm of Osler, Hoskin and Harcourt found that the Mint’s process for monitoring expenses were stricter than those of most private corporations. The twin reports completely exonerated Dingwall. On or about February 4, 2006, retired Superior Court Justice George Adams found that the Government of Canada essentially forced Dingwall out when he released his findings in a binding arbitration ruling.

[cannuck]

You know what? I completely agree. But here's the thing about capitalism; it's supposed to work for employees as well as corporations. Wages are supposed to rise when a job is unpleasant and unsatisfying in order to attract sufficient workers to do the job. That hasn't been happening in Canada. Instead, employers have been lobbying the government to bring in foreigners who will continue to do the crappy, dead end jobs for dirt cheap wages.

Don't want to stray too far or long OT, but the need for foreign workers existed because employers couldn't find enough Canadians who would do the jobs. I can't speak for the East, but around here, the employment levels were so high, employers were lobbying hard for work visa programmes to hire tradesmen as we were drastically short, and the fast food/sleep factory people got their shots in to get the low wage people they could not get. I am not very familiar with those kinds of businesses, but I understand that there is a genuine cap on what the consumer will pay, so they really need relatively low wage people to do those generally menial tasks. I can't agree that Capitalism is supposed to do what you state. It is supposed to make capital available, period. Out of scope for this discussion is how genuine capitalism has been replaced by casino capitalism and corporatism - that definitely affects how the workplace plays out, Labour laws and social conventions decide what is good and bad, legal and illegal, acceptable and unacceptable in employment.

[Argus]

Of course, he actually was.

You missed the point. You Liberals usually do. That you make rules so that you can get taxpayers to pay for your orange juice, your vacations or your nannies does not, in the minds of Canadians, absolve you of cheating them out of their money just because the rules you made say you can do it.

[Argus]

Don't want to stray too far or long OT, but the need for foreign workers existed because employers couldn't find enough Canadians who would do the jobs.

You can always find people to do a job if you're willing to pay enough. Employers didn't want to pay enough. Tough luck. As far as I'm concerned if you can't find employees then go out of business because you suck as a businessman. If enough fast food places close down because of paying higher wages there will be an equilibrium where the higher prices they charge meet with the number of people willing to pay them. That's how capitalism works.

As for tradesmen, the more you pay the more you get. High rates for tradesmen drew people from across Canada and encouraged others to get into the trades. Again, that's how capitalism is supposed to work. I didn't notice businessmen charging less for services because people would have a hard time affording them. I didn't notice rents staying low out there, or the price of houses, because people found it hard to afford. Nope, they raised the prices as high as they could and still get tenants and buyers and screw those who couldn't afford it.

Edited December 31, 2015 by Argus

[Smallc]

You missed the point. You Liberals usually do. That you make rules so that you can get taxpayers to pay for your orange juice, your vacations or your nannies does not, in the minds of Canadians, absolve you of cheating them out of their money just because the rules you made say you can do it.

The point you miss - you aren't the arbiter of common sense.

[Argus]

The point you miss - you aren't the arbiter of common sense.

No, and that was what David Dingwall missed too. He thought his entitlements were fine and dandy. The rest of Canada felt otherwise. One of the more consistent flaws with Liberals is that they see the taxpayer's purse as theirs to do with as they choose, for any reason they care to. There's no sign that attitude has changed at all.

Edited December 31, 2015 by Argus

[Smallc]

No, and that was what David Dingwall missed too. He thought his entitlements were fine and dandy.

And the best part is, they were. In fact, the practices surrounding them, as I showed you, were above private sector averages. Actually, an even better part - he didn't make most of those rules himself - he just lived by them.

[Big Guy]

So we get 8,000 Syrian refugees into Canada in 2015. There are terrorists hiding within these folks and we are letting terrorists in because they follow Islam and Islam encourages violence and terrorism. But, the Trudeau government promised 25,000 so they lied and should have got those 25,000 in on time - but if they rushed them through, there would be even more terrorists let into Canada. It is the Muslims who are causing all the problems in the world to-day and these refugees are mainly Muslims.

Trudeau should have rushed those 25,000 refugees into Canada by the end of 2015 - but made sure there are no terrorists in with these folks so his government should take more time vetting them in Syria before they get on a plane.

The real problem is that you cannot tell a Muslim from a Christian just by looking at him. Muslims come in all colours and shapes. Maybe our government should tattoo a big "M" on the forehead of each refugee and immigrant who says they are Muslims so we can keep an eye on these folks because Islam encourages violence and terrorism. Hey, I know.

There is a guy on my street who wears a turban and a cross. He must be a terrorist who is trying to infiltrate our system by claiming that he is not a Muslim. He tries to bull me by telling me that he is from India.

Edited December 31, 2015 by Big Guy

[Keepitsimple]

No, and that was what David Dingwall missed too. He thought his entitlements were fine and dandy. The rest of Canada felt otherwise. One of the more consistent flaws with Liberals is that they see the taxpayer's purse as theirs to do with as they choose, for any reason they care to. There's no sign that attitude has changed at all.

Not completely unlike Mike Duffy - on a smaller scale.

[Accountability Now]

So we get 8,000 Syrian refugees into Canada in 2015. There are terrorists hiding within these folks and we are letting terrorists in because they follow Islam and Islam encourages violence and terrorism. But, the Trudeau government promised 25,000 so they lied and should have got those 25,000 in on time - but if they rushed them through, there would be even more terrorists let into Canada. It is the Muslims who are causing all the problems in the world to-day and these refugees are mainly Muslims.

Trudeau should have rushed those 25,000 refugees into Canada by the end of 2015 - but made sure there are no terrorists in with these folks so his government should take more time vetting them in Syria before they get on a plane.

.

I summed up the whole issue a few posts back. Maybe you can look at that post and see if it clarifies anything on your end.

[Keepitsimple]

Canada is a welcoming country and Canadians have big hearts - but we're not stupid:

The Liberals promised in the election to bring in 25,000 government-sponsored Syrian refugees before the New Year. That goal was quickly revised once they took office. They then pledged to bring in 10,000 refugees before the New Year, but with only a relatively modest target of 2,000 to be sponsored by government, while the rest would be sponsored privately. In the end, just 1,849 government-sponsored refugees arrived after November, 2015. As recently as last week Mr. McCallum said the goal of 10,000 refugees would be met.

In spite of all this, what does ol' John have to say?

“I would say we largely met our promises,” the minister added. “We identified 25,000 as committed. We have fully processed over 10,000 by the end of the year, as promised. We will certainly deliver 25,000 refugees by the end of February. The only discrepancy is a delay of two weeks in welcoming the first 10,000 refugees to our shores.”

Mind-boggling! Queue the apologists.

Link: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/two-more-weeks-needed-to-bring-10000-syrian-refugees-to-canada-liberals/article27970929/

Edited January 1, 2016 by Keepitsimple

[eyeball]

You figure Harper could have gotten more in faster?

[jacee]

Canada is a welcoming country and Canadians have big hearts - but we're not stupid:

In spite of all this, what does ol' John have to say?

Mind-boggling! Queue the apologists.

Link: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/two-more-weeks-needed-to-bring-10000-syrian-refugees-to-canada-liberals/article27970929/

Yes I'm sure it really upsets you that there aren't more refugees arriving sooner. :/

Funny ... I don't recall you supporting that earlier!

Must be the holiday season that has loosened your heartstrings so much.

Or ... you're just playing politics?!

.

[Keepitsimple]

Yes I'm sure it really upsets you that there aren't more refugees arriving sooner. :/

Funny ... I don't recall you supporting that earlier!

Must be the holiday season that has loosened your heartstrings so much.

Or ... you're just playing politics?!

.

As I said - queue the apologists! Didn't say I wanted more - or less. Just wanted a responsible approach to integration - while not ignoring refugees from other parts of the world. Wouldn't you think that's what Canadians really want? The election promise - as opposed to the NDP or Conservative one - has proven itself for what it is - a complete pile of BS. I've also gone on record as saying this "promise" puts the credibility of other election promises in question. Time will tell if the deficit will be constrained to their election promise of $10 billion in each of the next three years. Time will tell if they will satisfy all 94 recommendations of the T & R committee.

[dialamah]

As I said - queue the apologists! Didn't say I wanted more - or less. Just wanted a responsible approach to integration - while not ignoring refugees from other parts of the world. Wouldn't you think that's what Canadians really want?

It seems most Canadians seem to think the "responsible approach" has happened, since support for bringing in refugees has increased substantially, from about 40% of Canadians to as many as two-thirds. The center in Halifax has had such terrific response that they're going to stop accepting donations nearly a month early, because they have enough already. It's only those who delight in finding fault that are still finding fault, I guess.

Time will tell if the deficit will be constrained to their election promise of $10 billion in each of the next three years. Time will tell if they will satisfy all 94 recommendations of the T & R committee.

Time will indeed tell. Whatever promises they keep or do not keep, I understand that for some people it's much more important to focus on the negative and find fault, than even notice the positive, never mind acknowledge a government doing the right thing. I hope election reform happens in such a way that it does no good for the opposition to kneejerk a negative response to everything a sitting government does.

[Keepitsimple]

Time will indeed tell. Whatever promises they keep or do not keep, I understand that for some people it's much more important to focus on the negative and find fault, than even notice the positive, never mind acknowledge a government doing the right thing. I hope election reform happens in such a way that it does no good for the opposition to kneejerk a negative response to everything a sitting government does.

When you promise 25,000 government assisted refugees by December 31st and deliver less than 2000 - and then say you need at least one year more to meet your promise. Heck - I would have been satisfied if they had managed to move 10,000 by yesterday - that would have been a herculean effort that deserved praise - even if it would have fallen short. Surely you can agree that the whole undertaking was a façade - not just a miscalculation....not even an exaggeration or aspiration....just out-and-out BS. And for that, you're darn right they should be held accountable.

Can you just imagine if Stephen Harper had made the same promise (which he wouldn't). Where would your tolerance be for this debacle. Really - think about it.

[capricorn]

The election promise - as opposed to the NDP or Conservative one - has proven itself for what it is - a complete pile of BS.

The Liberals are quite concerned about how history will document this government's Syrian refugee efforts. In fact, I think they were aiming to break previous records on refugee resettlement. How dismayed they must have been when a large number of Syrian refugees weren't beating down the doors to get into Canada.

"I think when history is written, the story will be about how we welcomed 25,000 refugees in a short period of time and not the fact that there was a two week delay in meeting our intermediate target," Immigration Minister John McCallum said after meeting staff at the Toronto airport terminal where refugees have been arriving on government-organized flights.

http://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2015/12/31/two-more-weeks-to-meet-first-part-of-syrian-refugee-promise-mccallum-2/#.Voa44FJmpMG

I mean, why would the question of your historical record even come to mind at a time like this?

[Argus]

It seems most Canadians seem to think the "responsible approach" has happened, since support for bringing in refugees has increased substantially, from about 40% of Canadians to as many as two-thirds.

Yes, there has been a massive propaganda effort on this by the Left. Every day in the media are gushing stories about wide-eyed refugees arriving in Canada to great applause and smiles and joyous welcomes! Politicians are engaged in fist fights to get closer to the next aircraft landing in hopes of getting their beautifically smiling faces into camera range with their open arms welcoming refugees (But only the ones from Syria. No one gives a crap about the rest).

And of course, not a word to be heard about the cost or what these refugees are going to do in Canada.