The Next Canadian Liberal Cabinet

[ToadBrother]

When Harper first took power it took his government years to get rid of the Liberal minded bureaucrats that had been hired by the previous long Liberal governments. Now, many of these same positions are being held by Reform/Alliance minded bureaucrats hired by the Harper group. It will take time to make the support around each Minister to reflect Liberal views.

Frankly, I think the affect of such bureaucrats is pretty limited. Most are at the most senior level of the Ministry, and are professional civil servants. Sure, some departments may be filled with Tory lackeys, but in most cases, from my experience, they don't work on that kind of fixed ideological schedule. That was just a bunch of BS the Tories spread as part of their paranoiac "they're all out to get us" line.

[Michael Hardner]

Affirmative action has made an enormous impact on improving employment opportunity in the US, so that's by design.

Without drifting the thread to a new discussion, can you just provide a cite for that ?

[SpankyMcFarland]

I think it may not be desirable from precisely that reason. An aboriginal serving in that job (which a lot of people would say inherently has colonialist overtones to it, and if you've read the Indian Act, it would be hard to argue otherwise) would be in a very awkward spot. And as far as language fluency goes, there are so many aboriginal languages that being fluent in even one or two wouldn't mean all that much to most of the population.

Affirmative action has made an enormous impact on improving employment opportunity in the US, so that's by design.

But many of the people appointed have known absolutely nothing about First Nations issues. What could be more colonial or insulting than that? It is almost as if FN MPs are forbidden to have it or refuse to take it. I, for one, would like to know which. We have had geographic representation in Cabinet for some time protecting the interests of provinces that are pretty much the same ethnically and linguistically. Imagine having an Albertan representing Nova Scotia. Why not have a FN person who knows what he or she is talking about? If that turns out be unworkable, then we should bite the bullet and reform the Indian Act.

Being fluent in a few of the languages spoken would be FAR better than the current situation, having somebody who speaks none which should be embarrassing to this country.

Edited October 29, 2015 by SpankyMcFarland

[Sean_C]

Without drifting the thread to a new discussion, can you just provide a cite for that ?

Considering how hard women still struggle to get into the top positions in the workplace, is there any reason to think it wouldn't be even worse without affirmative action? The continued existence of hiring discrimination is indisputable.

But many of the people appointed have known absolutely nothing about First Nations issues.

The current person being talked about for the job in many circles is Carolyn Bennett, who has a longtime association with aboriginal matters.

[Argus]

Considering how hard women still struggle to get into the top positions in the workplace, is there any reason to think it wouldn't be even worse without affirmative action? The continued existence of hiring discrimination is indisputable.

You said affirmative action had had an enormous impact on improving employment. I believe you meant, then 'for those favored', rather than overall.

The question remains whether the situation in CAnada merits pushing people forward ahead of others who may be more competent, simply based on their ace or gender.

[Michael Hardner]

...is there any reason to think it wouldn't be even worse without affirmative action?

"It wouldn't be worse without {AA]" "[AA]has made an enormous impact"

I agree with the first statement, but I was looking for a cite for the second one.

[ToadBrother]

You said affirmative action had had an enormous impact on improving employment. I believe you meant, then 'for those favored', rather than overall.

The question remains whether the situation in CAnada merits pushing people forward ahead of others who may be more competent, simply based on their ace or gender.

In the US, Federal affirmative action was pretty much required to give groups that had been economically disadvantaged at least some chance to move up the ladder. We can debate the success of such measures, but I'd ask you how you would have increased the overall economic activity of, say, African Americans in the southern states after a century of Jim Crow Laws?

A similar question could be asked of native peoples in Canada, after centuries of economic marginalization. Do you imagine that just repealing prejudicial laws and regulations just magically lifts peoples to the higher spheres?

[ToadBrother]

"It wouldn't be worse without {AA]" "[AA]has made an enormous impact"

I agree with the first statement, but I was looking for a cite for the second one.

http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jonathan_Leonard2/publication/4746293_The_Impact_of_Affirmative_Action_Regulation_and_Equal_Employment_Law_on_Black_Employment/links/0046352cd00464bbf4000000.pdf

[-TSS-]

How long can a new government blame the previous government for any problems? The new government obviously carries on with it as long as they can get away with it. They keep on saying that they are doing their best but they inherited difficult conditions from the previous government and one electoral term may not be enough to fix all the damage so you need to re-elect us in the next election.

Sometimes people even believe this and re-elect the government but in the second term they can no longer blame the previous government and if things don't get better the government loses the third election.

After that the new government says that they inherited difficult conditions from the previous government and .....

[WestCoastRunner]

The question remains whether the situation in CAnada merits pushing people forward ahead of others who may be more competent, simply based on their ace or gender.

That's not true. . As long as the skill set meets job requirements, they will be given preference.

[Smallc]

How long can a new government blame the previous government for any problems?

For sure until they get sworn in.

[bush_cheney2004]

Easy there folks...I knows comparisons to the U.S. is the Canadian way, but affirmative action policies at the federal and state levels were mainly directed at government funded contracts, education, and employment, not private enterprise. Since JFK's initial executive order, other state and federal laws/court decisions have rendered any preferential treatment that denies opportunities to anyone because of race, sex, religion, national origin, etc. as illegal and actionable.

Federal and state contracts still contain provisions for female and minority owned business set asides. Some state laws now prohibit all AA discriminatory preferences except when it may impact the flow of federal funds.

Edited October 30, 2015 by bush_cheney2004

[ToadBrother]

Easy there folks...I knows comparisons to the U.S. is the Canadian way, but affirmative action policies at the federal and state levels were mainly directed at government funded contracts, education, and employment, not private enterprise. Since JFK's initial executive order, other state and federal laws/court decisions have rendered any preferential treatment that denies opportunities to anyone because of race, sex, religion, national origin, etc. as illegal and actionable.

Federal and state contracts still contain provisions for female and minority owned business set asides. Some state laws now prohibit all AA discriminatory preferences except when it may impact the flow of federal funds.

I don't think any Canadian government is talking about imposing quotas on private businesses, at least not on private businesses that have no sort of contractual relationship with the level of government involved.

[SpankyMcFarland]

The current person being talked about for the job in many circles is Carolyn Bennett, who has a longtime association with aboriginal matters.

How many First Nations languages is she fluent in? From now on, that should be the first question for anybody considered for that portfolio.

[Canada_First]

I am looking forward to this Liberal government. I was tired of Harper but will never vote for another party federally as only the Torys will protect Jews and side with Israel. I base my vote on who will protect Jews and side with Israel for the most part.

[-TSS-]

I'm glad you people in Canada still have faith in democracy. Here in Europe we are exhausted. Perhaps your democracy is stronger than ours and ours is fragile.

Well, I can only speak for Finland rherefore excuse me for likening an entire continent with an unimportant country.

Namely, I have never ever in my adult life since I was first allowed to vote in 1991 been this disillusioned with the state of democracy in this country.

Of course this all boils down to the EU which is on its mission to destroy the nation-states the latest episode of which is this "unexpected" flow of refugees.

I know that one shouldn't give in to apathy because that is exactly what those cynts wish us descend into but it is very difficult to not fall into apathy.

[The_Squid]

So people don't bat an eye at balancing regional representation in the Cabinet, but there's an issue with balancing gender in the Cabinet?

Why would that be...?

[Big Guy]

So it looks like Trudeau has guaranteed 14 female members and 14 male members in this Cabinet. I sure hope that there is enough talent among those males to also do a good job and that they are not appointed just to fill a gender target.

[ToadBrother]

So it looks like Trudeau has guaranteed 14 female members and 14 male members in this Cabinet. I sure hope that there is enough talent among those males to also do a good job and that they are not appointed just to fill a gender target.

Well, at least gender targets are no worse than the other reasons cabinet ministers are generally appointed, and we'll have fewer of them, so that at least is a positive move.

[ToadBrother]

I'm glad you people in Canada still have faith in democracy. Here in Europe we are exhausted. Perhaps your democracy is stronger than ours and ours is fragile.

\

Perhaps you should ponder what the alternatives could be. Europe has seen all the alternatives, and Finland was overawed for decades by one of those alternatives.

[cybercoma]

Putting togehter the list as they're announced.

[Smallc]

Interesting - indigenous is the word preferred by native people to identify themselves now. A nod cooperation in that title.

[Smallc]

Having an aboriginal as justice minister and an easterner in agriculture is also interesting.

[Smallc]

Stephane Dion gets a very important and senior position in Foreign Affairs.

Procurement split into a separate department under Public Works (now called Public Services) - a move that may be very good.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Smallc

[Argus]

Poor Andrew Leslie. If only he wore a turban he'd be defense minister today.