Scotty Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Has feminism benefited more than the very few? It was touted as the way to free women from the confines of their drudgery, to let them have fufilling careers and expand their world views. And for some few women it has done exactly that. We have women in ever profession now. But those are the few. Like men, what most women found in the workplace wasn't a career but a dull job with few prospects that was entirely unfulfilling. It allows a minorit of women to flourish while the rest simply exchanged one form of drudgery for another. This 'emancipation' however, came at a heavy cost. The law of supply and demand meant that the more workers society had the less individual value they had. Where a single wage earner used to be able to carry most families now two became necessary simply becase of that lowered value. What had been 'choice' now became necessity. In addition, divorces and familiy breakdowns skyrocketed and birth rates plummeted. Now the buses and subways are filled with tired, unhappy women every morning, heading off to their dull jobs while their kids are shoved into daycare. When they get home they have to rush to do all the chores they couldn't do during the day. Most of them can only dream about having the chance to stay home to look after their kids and all those chores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 This 'emancipation' however, came at a heavy cost. The law of supply and demand meant that the more workers society had the less individual value they had. Where a single wage earner used to be able to carry most families now two became necessary simply becase of that lowered value. So if women just quit their jobs en masse, wages will jump? Manufacturers will come back from Asia? Industries will mothball their computers and machines and hire humans to do work again? Companies will stop importing foreign workers? -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 I would make a distinction between feminism and radical feminism. Also, the origins of feminism and what it was, with what it's eveolved to become in its present form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Poor attempt to start a discussion - can we please have a cite or something to base the discussion on rather than Scotty's perceptions ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Poor attempt to start a discussion - can we please have a cite or something to base the discussion on rather than Scotty's perceptions ? Not at all....the OP is clear and self evident. But for those who insist on a supporting "cite"....try this one...it's even Canadian ! http://www.cccabc.bc.ca/res/pdf/From_women_to_children.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddy Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) Has feminism benefited more than the very few? It was touted as the way to free women from the confines of their drudgery, to let them have fufilling careers and expand their world views. And for some few women it has done exactly that. We have women in ever profession now. But those are the few. Like men, what most women found in the workplace wasn't a career but a dull job with few prospects that was entirely unfulfilling. It allows a minorit of women to flourish while the rest simply exchanged one form of drudgery for another.This 'emancipation' however, came at a heavy cost. The law of supply and demand meant that the more workers society had the less individual value they had. Where a single wage earner used to be able to carry most families now two became necessary simply becase of that lowered value. What had been 'choice' now became necessity. In addition, divorces and familiy breakdowns skyrocketed and birth rates plummeted.Now the buses and subways are filled with tired, unhappy women every morning, heading off to their dull jobs while their kids are shoved into daycare. When they get home they have to rush to do all the chores they couldn't do during the day. Most of them can only dream about having the chance to stay home to look after their kids and all those chores.A well articulated post on a very difficult subject to address. I applaud you for opening such a complicated thread.As a society I don't think it has improved our situation. But women have more choices, and I don't think we can keep them from having that. Edited May 31, 2015 by Freddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 So if women just quit their jobs en masse, wages will jump? Manufacturers will come back from Asia? Industries will mothball their computers and machines and hire humans to do work again? Companies will stop importing foreign workers? -k I also didn't realize that families living beyond their means (or needs/requirements) was attributed to feminism - who knew! All those McMansions requiring 2-family incomes... damn you feminists!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal 9000 Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Poor attempt to start a discussion - can we please have a cite or something to base the discussion on rather than Scotty's perceptions ? He's asking a question, obviously in the hopes of generating some dialogue. I don't think he made any statements that need to be proven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 But women have more choices, and I don't think we can keep them from having that. How gracious of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddy Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) How gracious of you.Here you are with your tongue in cheek again. I'd love to take credit. Unfortunately for me women fought and won that freedom all by themselves. Edited May 31, 2015 by Freddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal 9000 Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 I don't think it's just a matter of wages, it's cost of living etc. The costs of living are generally tied into what we'll pay...or what sellers or Government can get away with charging. Just to look at 1965 numbers as a comparison, people now earn on average about 7x what they did then, however, costs for everything (gas, rent, food, alcohol etc) have increased at least 10x. And houses, they have increased 30x relative to what a person's earning were. In 1965 an average car price was approximately 30-35% of your yearly income, now that cost is closer to 75%. A house price was generally equal to 2 years salary, now they are set at about 6-7x your yearly salary - all these are averages - of course. So, to say that we've built a society where working women are essential to the financial success of a family, I think is fair. Did costs go up because there was more money to be had or did women work because costs somehow skyrocketed - it's a chicken and egg discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 I don't think he made any statements that need to be proven. The title of the thread ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal 9000 Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 The title of the thread ? The first sentence..."Has feminism benefited more than the very few?" Are you able to change the thread title? Or, ask him to, Because that would be more constructive than what you're currently doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Let's let Scotty PM me about this. I'm not sure I need you to interpret what he was expressing here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Feminism has caused a lot of alcoholic abusive bitter men to be ... SINGLE! . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 The title of the thread ? Debatable...you'd have to include abortion rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal 9000 Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Feminism has caused a lot of alcoholic abusive bitter men to be ... SINGLE! . Yes, quite amusing. It's also left a lot of women struggling to survive financially, domestic murders (both ways) and a lot of kids growing up in poverty. But yeah, lets have a laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) Yes, quite amusing. It's also left a lot of women struggling to survive financially, domestic murders (both ways) and a lot of kids growing up in poverty. But yeah, lets have a laugh. Would they be better off in an abusive household?Are they living in poverty because their absent fathers don't pay child support? You are describing problems that result from abuse and irresponsibility of men ... the kind of men that women dump. Feminism isn't the problem. Abusive and irresponsible men are. And they whine and complain because women won't put up with their crap anymore. Oh.well. . Edited May 31, 2015 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 The reason I wanted a cite is so that the thread would have something solid to base a discussion on. As it is, we're already starting down a path with people on both sides making generalizations based on nothing. This kind of thread sometimes gets stopped by the mods at the outset, as 'poor attempt to start a discussion' but there were already a few posts going so instead of stopping it, I asked Scotty to provide some kind of cite moving forward. Now we have some generalized assertions, the first such assertion being about feminism causing bitter men to be single, followed with another one about women struggling to survive. For these discussions to be worthwhile and rise above this level, we'll need to have some facts at some point. Otherwise, it's just an "Am I right Ladies ?"/"Am I right Boyz ?" thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) Yup. Lock it. Edited June 1, 2015 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 There could be a discussion here, if people try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddy Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Feminism has caused a lot of alcoholic abusive bitter men to be ... SINGLE! . And a rise in the total gay male population. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) There could be a discussion here, if people try.Not with that title and op.A bunch of spurned and bitter men who want to tell women what to do? 'Get back in the kitchen ...' ? Puleeeeez! ... . Edited June 1, 2015 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 And a rise in the total gay male population. lol Kind of a separate issue but ya ... they're single now too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddy Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Not with that title and op. A bunch of spurned and bitter men who want to tell women what to do? 'Get back in the kitchen ...' ? Puleeeeez! ... . Would you say we are better off for it as a society? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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