bush_cheney2004 Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 ...Now we have some generalized assertions, the first such assertion being about feminism causing bitter men to be single, followed with another one about women struggling to survive. For these discussions to be worthwhile and rise above this level, we'll need to have some facts at some point. We also have a Canadian cite/reference that reports data and analysis for the OP. It is not just generalized assertion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Would you say we are better off for it as a society? Yes. Would you say the South is better off as a society without slavery? . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 We also have a Canadian cite/reference that reports data and analysis for the OP. It is not just generalized assertion. Yes, thanks for pointing that out. Here it is again: http://www.cccabc.bc.ca/res/pdf/From_women_to_children.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddy Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Yes. Would you say the South is better off as a society without slavery? . I didn't equate black slaves we whip to wives we care for, protect and love. I feel you're comparison is extremely disturbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddy Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Has feminism benefited more than the very few? It was touted as the way to free women from the confines of their drudgery, to let them have fufilling careers and expand their world views. And for some few women it has done exactly that. We have women in ever profession now. But those are the few. Like men, what most women found in the workplace wasn't a career but a dull job with few prospects that was entirely unfulfilling. It allows a minorit of women to flourish while the rest simply exchanged one form of drudgery for another.This 'emancipation' however, came at a heavy cost. The law of supply and demand meant that the more workers society had the less individual value they had. Where a single wage earner used to be able to carry most families now two became necessary simply becase of that lowered value. What had been 'choice' now became necessity. In addition, divorces and familiy breakdowns skyrocketed and birth rates plummeted.Now the buses and subways are filled with tired, unhappy women every morning, heading off to their dull jobs while their kids are shoved into daycare. When they get home they have to rush to do all the chores they couldn't do during the day. Most of them can only dream about having the chance to stay home to look after their kids and all those chores. From what I'm understanding from our women, Men only have themselves to blame for feminism. It was born out of abuse by men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 I didn't equate black slaves we whip to wives we care for, protect and love. I feel you're comparison is extremely disturbing. Lack of freedom of choice is disturbing, isn't it? . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 From what I'm understanding from our women, Men only have themselves to blame for feminism. It was born out of abuse by men. It's about freedom of choice, for whatever reason. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddy Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Lack of freedom of choice is disturbing, isn't it? . Lumping both merchandised slaves & wives, In the same boat is disturbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddy Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 It's about freedom of choice, for whatever reason. . . Can't disagree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) I didn't equate black slaves we whip to wives we care for, protect and love. I feel you're comparison is extremely disturbing. The comparison Jacee is getting at, I think, is that women have far more human rights today, How can men care for, protect and love the women in their lives if they don't agree with the fight women have fought for more human rights than existed not so very long ago. Edited June 1, 2015 by WestCoastRunner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 From what I'm understanding from our women, Men only have themselves to blame for feminism. It was born out of abuse by men. Feminism isn't a bad thing. It was born out of women fighting for their human rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Yes, thanks for pointing that out. Here it is again: http://www.cccabc.bc.ca/res/pdf/From_women_to_children.pdf The op should be tied in somehow to this article and not left up to us to try and figure how it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddy Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) The comparison Jacee is getting at, I think, is that women have far more human rights today, How can men care for, protect and love the women in their lives if they don't agree with the fight women have fought for more human rights than existed not so very long ago.Yes I agree. And that's why my opening statement in this thread was exactly that.But from a man's perspective, I loved the idea of being the hunter gatherer. I don't think we are as adaptable as women are. Maybe we feel like our purposes is irrelevant, obsolete. Can you see where I'm coming from? Edited June 1, 2015 by Freddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 For those men who feel feminism is a bad thing (according to this OP), it does have benefits for men as well as women: How Men Benefit from relationships with feminist women "Men in relationships with feminist women are freed from some of the oppressive bonds of traditional masculinity. They are less likely to be “success objects” valued only for their paychecks (which frees them up to choose more satisfying jobs and careers), they are freer to express their emotions and receive emotional support, to be nurturing and supportive in their personal relationships, to be non-violent, more cooperative and less destructively competitive, and to embrace the traditionally “feminine” things that fit them." "constrictive conceptions of masculinity have “inhibited men's development, reduced men's capacity to form meaningful relationships, and contributed to the oppression of others.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Yes I agree. And that's why my opening statement in this thread was exactly that. But from a man's perspective, I loved the idea of being the hunter gatherer. I don't think we are as adaptable as women are. Maybe we feel like our purposes is irrelevant, obsolete. Can you see where I'm coming from? Well, you may be in the minority of men who think that way. You should focus on the benefits that feminism brings to men, including a more empowered relationship with a woman who has equal rights that match yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddy Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) Well, you may be in the minority of men who think that way. You should focus on the benefits that feminism brings to men, including a more empowered relationship with a woman who has equal rights that match yours. For those men who feel feminism is a bad thing (according to this OP), it does have benefits for men as well as women: How Men Benefit from relationships with feminist women "Men in relationships with feminist women are freed from some of the oppressive bonds of traditional masculinity. They are less likely to be success objects valued only for their paychecks (which frees them up to choose more satisfying jobs and careers), they are freer to express their emotions and receive emotional support, to be nurturing and supportive in their personal relationships, to be non-violent, more cooperative and less destructively competitive, and to embrace the traditionally feminine things that fit them." "constrictive conceptions of masculinity have inhibited men's development, reduced men's capacity to form meaningful relationships, and contributed to the oppression of others. I don't think a majority of men want that. I think many men want to be a woman's pride. Edited June 1, 2015 by Freddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 I don't think a majority of men want that. Well, I guess they are SOL then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddy Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Well, I guess they are SOL then. I think many men want to be a women's pride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal 9000 Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 For those men who feel feminism is a bad thing (according to this OP), it does have benefits for men as well as women: How Men Benefit from relationships with feminist women "Men in relationships with feminist women are freed from some of the oppressive bonds of traditional masculinity. They are less likely to be “success objects” valued only for their paychecks (which frees them up to choose more satisfying jobs and careers), they are freer to express their emotions and receive emotional support, to be nurturing and supportive in their personal relationships, to be non-violent, more cooperative and less destructively competitive, and to embrace the traditionally “feminine” things that fit them." "constrictive conceptions of masculinity have “inhibited men's development, reduced men's capacity to form meaningful relationships, and contributed to the oppression of others.” I don't think he was saying feminism is a bad thing. He was asking if we (as a society) are better off because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddy Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 I don't think he was saying feminism is a bad thing. He was asking if we (as a society) are better off because of it. Every women answer yes and every man answer no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal 9000 Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Every women answer yes and every man answer no. I see where you're going, but I don't know if that's true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddy Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 I see where you're going, but I don't know if that's true. at a quick glance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 I think many men want to be a women's pride. WTF exactly is a womans pride as you call it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal 9000 Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) Well, i've seen the women that Scotty is talking about, the ones that regret being in the situation of "having" to work. I've seen too many latch key kids and too many kids run through the foster system from families that are broken or just too vacant to be decent parents. However, as WCR alluded, I have 2 houses, 2 nice cars and some expensive toys and without my wifes income, that would not be possible. Our kids do fine also, so yeah, I'm all for women working. Edited June 1, 2015 by Hal 9000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddy Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 WTF exactly is a womans pride as you call it.... Ask a woman. Can any woman explain it for On Guard? It's in the possessive sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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