Time For Referendum On Capital Punishment

[Big Guy]

Today, Ireland just had a referendum on gay marriage. About 63% supported the concept of making a change in the Constitution to validate gay marriages. The TV coverage is filled with people cheering and congratulating each other and the government for accepting the will of the majority.

About 63% of Canadians support the death penalty for certain crimes. No one argues that percentage and accepts that the majority support capital punishment. There are a number of polls which support that statistic.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canada-politics/majority-canadians-support-death-penalty-poll-180253516.html

We have been governed by a Conservative government which has been re-elected on "tough on crime", increased penalties for criminals and the old "throw them in jail and throw away the keys" philosophy. This is a majority government that can pass any legislation that they want (I assume that it is not in that last Omnibus bill) .

Why do we not have capital punishment in Canada. The polls obviously indicate that a clear majority of Canadians support the concept - yet - not only does this majority government choose to not legislate it into law but none of the opposition parties is touching this issue with an election pending.

Why?

Is there any other issue where the majority of Canadians are ignored as to their will and wishes?

[TimG]

Why do we not have capital punishment in Canada. The polls obviously indicate that a clear majority of Canadians support the concept

I support the concept but there is no government on this planet that I would trust to implement it. You can let an innocent man out of jail. You can't resurrect him.

[Je suis Omar]

I support the concept but there is no government on this planet that I would trust to implement it. You can let an innocent man out of jail. You can't resurrect him.

'Nuff said, end of thread.

[The_Squid]

I support the concept but there is no government on this planet that I would trust to implement it. You can let an innocent man out of jail. You can't resurrect him.

I agree with TimG. Sounds great in concept, but never can work.

Plus, it will immediately be deemed unconstitutional by the SCC.

[Keepitsimple]

Is there any other issue where the majority of Canadians are ignored as to their will and wishes?

Abortion. A clear majority has always wanted some sort of protection for the unborn - similar to protective legislation in every other Western country. Some want it from conception, others after 2, 3 or 6 months. It's a good example of the "tyranny of the minority" that prevents reasonable discussion.

[Moonlight Graham]

I completely disagree with capital punishment on so many different levels. It's a really ridiculous punishment that accomplished nothing. I'd rather a horrible criminal live out their days working their nails to the bone to pay back their debt to society & the victims than to give the state the power to kill its own citizens.

I also don't believe in "an eye for an eye". Death is never, ever a form of justice, only vengeance.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Moonlight Graham

[cybercoma]

With 4% of defendants sentenced to die being innocent in the U.S., capital punishment is an inhumane and incredibly stupid idea.

[August1991]

Today, Ireland just had a referendum on gay marriage. About 63% supported the concept of making a change in the Constitution to validate gay marriages. The TV coverage is filled with people cheering and congratulating each other and the government for accepting the will of the majority.

About 63% of Canadians support the death penalty for certain crimes. No one argues that percentage and accepts that the majority support capital punishment.

.....

In a civilized society, the majority should not determine the rights of a minority. What would happen to left-handed people if right-handed people voted according to hand skills?

As to "gay marriage", while I respect the right of each individual to live as they are, even the US Supreme Court decided that if it doesn't have whole eggs, it's not mayonnaise.

Edited May 24, 2015 by August1991

[Smallc]

I support the concept but there is no government on this planet that I would trust to implement it. You can let an innocent man out of jail. You can't resurrect him.

In all but a few cases I'm in 100% agreement with you.

[H10]

Today, Ireland just had a referendum on gay marriage. About 63% supported the concept of making a change in the Constitution to validate gay marriages. The TV coverage is filled with people cheering and congratulating each other and the government for accepting the will of the majority.

About 63% of Canadians support the death penalty for certain crimes. No one argues that percentage and accepts that the majority support capital punishment. There are a number of polls which support that statistic.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canada-politics/majority-canadians-support-death-penalty-poll-180253516.html

We have been governed by a Conservative government which has been re-elected on "tough on crime", increased penalties for criminals and the old "throw them in jail and throw away the keys" philosophy. This is a majority government that can pass any legislation that they want (I assume that it is not in that last Omnibus bill) .

Why do we not have capital punishment in Canada. The polls obviously indicate that a clear majority of Canadians support the concept - yet - not only does this majority government choose to not legislate it into law but none of the opposition parties is touching this issue with an election pending.

Why?

Is there any other issue where the majority of Canadians are ignored as to their will and wishes?

I use to be pro-capital punishment until I studied the concept deeper.

The cops lie and plant evidence, the prosecutors lie and hide evidence that shows innocence, the doctors lie and pretend dna they never tested matches, bad defense lawyers screw peoples cases, prejudice juries are hand picked by the prosecutor to convict, if you look the wrong way you'll get convicted even in absence of evidence (minority, white guy with tattoos, beard, whatever, anyone who isn't a preppy looking figure is going to get locked up once charged unless they are a cop).

Tough on crime doesn't work for America where something like 40% + of the population has been arrested, it doesn't stop or deter crime it just makes more people "Criminals" who aren't even violent. when you send people to prison, prison is basically a training ground for criminals, so tough on crime tends to just train more criminals than absolve them.

We need to get softer on sentencing and look to reform bad behaviour and catch people who fall out the school system as teens. If you graduate high school, and get a decent job or career odds are you won't commit crime. If you drop out of high school at 15, odds are you will become a life long criminal. Lets stop people from joining the gangs and help kids BEFORE they go do crimes. Prison is expensive, keeping a kid in school is cheap.

And how can anyone trust a government known for lying, stealing, cheating and robbing its citizens to fairly administer a death penalty when senators are raping and beating and stealing from the taxpayers?

[Big Guy]

My point is that the majority of Irish (63%) were for gay marriage. The consensus here was that the will of the people was upheld - that this is democracy at work. In Canada, about the same percentage (63%) of Canadians believe in the death penalty but none of the political parties support it. Why not have a referendum?

[Keepitsimple]

My point is that the majority of Irish (63%) were for gay marriage. The consensus here was that the will of the people was upheld - that this is democracy at work. In Canada, about the same percentage (63%) of Canadians believe in the death penalty but none of the political parties support it. Why not have a referendum?

Why do YOU think we won't be having a referendum?

[Guest]

My point is that the majority of Irish (63%) were for gay marriage. The consensus here was that the will of the people was upheld - that this is democracy at work. In Canada, about the same percentage (63%) of Canadians believe in the death penalty but none of the political parties support it. Why not have a referendum?

I suppose it's because that's what governments are for. If not to make decisions themselves, then at least to make decisions on which issues referendums should be held.

[WestCoastRunner]

In Canada, about the same percentage (63%) of Canadians believe in the death penalty but none of the political parties support it. Why not have a referendum?

If you look at these stats a little closer, 63% drops to 45% when the option of having life imprisonment without the chance of parole is introduced.

[Scotty]

If you look at these stats a little closer, 63% drops to 45% when the option of having life imprisonment without the chance of parole is introduced.

So why don't we have that?

[eyeball]

Because we've learned that convicts can be rehabilitated and that parole has value.

[Freddy]

I'd support sending them to live in the far Northern parts of Canada. And use that as proof of land claims internationally .

Edited May 24, 2015 by Freddy

[Keepitsimple]

I'd like to see the three strikes rule apply to parole. Parole eligibility after one-third of your sentence for your first conviction. On a second conviction you're eligible after serving two-thirds - and upon being convicted a third time, you're out of luck. The Judge may of course, apply less - or no parole for violent/heinous crimes. Two many criminals have records as long as their arm - because relatively lenient sentencing with lax parole becomes simply the "cost of doing business". No need for longer sentences - just enforce the ones we have.

[eyeball]

Haven't there been enough threads already on the debunking of the high rate of recidivism that your post implies? Why can't you guys just cut through the crap and come out and declare what you really want - a vengeance system as opposed to a justice system?

Edited May 24, 2015 by eyeball

[H10]

My point is that the majority of Irish (63%) were for gay marriage. The consensus here was that the will of the people was upheld - that this is democracy at work. In Canada, about the same percentage (63%) of Canadians believe in the death penalty but none of the political parties support it. Why not have a referendum?

Because we are a Constitutional Monarchy, we don't believe in murdering people just because the majority want violence.

[Je suis Omar]

So why don't we have that?

Because Canadians (and the rest of the civilized world) are not Americans.

Although there seem to be a good number of radical right wingers, (Harper, MacKay, ... ) that want to see that change.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Je suis Omar

[bush_cheney2004]

Because Canadians (and the rest of the civilized world) are not Americans.

Actually, most of the world does have capital punishment, including "civilized" nations. The Americans are with the world majority.

A majority of polled Canadians favour capital punishment for some crimes.

Edited May 24, 2015 by bush_cheney2004

[Je suis Omar]

Actually, most of the world does have capital punishment, including "civilized" nations.

Most men would rather deny a hard truth than face it.

-George RR Martin

The Americans are with the world majority.

The US was the only western country to have carried out judicial executions last year and the 43 executions in the country ranked it fifth in the world in capital punishment, behind China, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Iraq, Amnesty International said Monday.

As an independent country, Texas would have ranked 7th, between North Korea and Somalia, with its 13 executions in 2011, Amnesty said, ... .

http://www.ibtimes.com/us-only-western-country-carry-out-capital-punishment-last-year-ranks-5th-worldwide-430342

[poochy]

Because we've learned that convicts can be rehabilitated and that parole has value.

And most normal people would be just fine if murderers, the cold blooded, premeditated kind, never had a chance at parole, and some actually don't with the dangerous offender status but that is a very few. Personally, im not sure why people are against a life sentence for first degree murder, a real life sentence, im not sure what beleif it is that wants to give a second chance to someone who took someone else's life away, im more than happy to pay for it.

I don't really beleive in the death penalty, it would be nice to say that in the case of X type of evidence, say video, when there is no doubt of guilt that we should have the option, but that creates two tiers of guilt and i dont think the system can work that way.

[eyeball]

Personally, im not sure why people are against a life sentence for first degree murder, a real life sentence, im not sure what beleif it is that wants to give a second chance to someone who took someone else's life away, im more than happy to pay for it.

Recall Ghandi's advice to a tormented soul who'd killed a Muslim boy in retaliation for the killing of his Hindu son. Ghandi told him to go find and raise a Muslim orphan and to raise the child up to be a Muslim.

This wasn't so much about resolving an issue of faith but of individual atonement. The point being everybody deserves the chance to find that atonement and I would say for those convicts that face being classified as too dangerous to release their classification hearing may well be the only chance they get. I don't think anyone has ever said that there will not be cases where some individuals simply cannot or should not be released but there's really no good excuse for the truly hard-assed vindictiveness that's being encouraged by too many people and especially self-serving politicians towards criminals. There is just far too much evidence that rehabilitation is the proper course of action in virtually all cases of imprisonment even for murderers.