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Suspects Shot Dead At $10K Muhammad Cartoon Contest


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Ok, so put up the exact quotes that you think qualify as hate speech so we can discuss whether or not it meets the definition.

No, not quotes by other people, but her direct words in full context, after the event.

But looking at the winning cartoon I don't think any reasonable person can say that the cartoon qualifies.

Just because you disagree with someone does not make it hate speech.

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Perhaps the perpetrators, if still alive should get the bill. Because the event is perfectly legal, and perfectly within the bounds of political free speech. Once again, you and your ilk are blaming the victim.

No, I'm mocking the twits who thought it would be a good idea to give a hornet's nest a poke.

Just so we're clear here are you actually of the opinion that your so-called victims acted intelligently?

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Yes. I know it's weird, but the American constitution only applies to American citizens. As does every other constitution that applies only to a particular countries citizens. Everyone's constitution is different. Shocker!

It does not only apply to American citizens. It would, should have applied to Omar Khadr except Bush boy set up an illegal prison outside US borders.

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No, I'm mocking the twits who thought it would be a good idea to give a hornet's nest a poke.

Just so we're clear here are you actually of the opinion that your so-called victims acted intelligently?

Let's be clear here: this is nothing more than an ad hominem attack against Geller and the people on this event.

Once again, free speech ought to not bring upon itself a death sentence.

To the extent that it does "invite" it says more about those who hate free speech to the point of trying to kill people.

That is why this discussion is so asinine: you minimize the killing and inflate the drawing of cartoons as if people deserve to be killed for poking the "hornets nest."

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I agree with this conclusion:

When vigilantes try to enforce the tenets of a faith by violence, then it becomes a civic obligation to stand up to them. And if the people doing the standing up are not in every way nice people—if they express other views that are ugly and prejudiced by any standard—then the more shame on all the rest of us for leaving the job to them.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/05/the-right-to-blaspheme/392654/

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Someone warn bush_cheney because it looks like SNL has ripped off Canadian comedians with a sketch about drawing Muhammed for one million dollars: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2015/05/10/saturday-night-lives-draw-muhammad-sketch-virtually-identical-to-bit-from-canadian-comedy-show/

Presumably this is a more "intelligent" and, therefore, acceptable form of satire as compared to actually drawing Muhammed like the contestants of the Geller event or the Charlie Hebdo cartoonists.

Edited by msj
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Apparently you either didnt read, or failed to understand what the link says. The US constitution applies to you if you are in the US.

Only a very select few parts of it. Most of it is aimed at Americans.

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I agree with this conclusion:

When vigilantes try to enforce the tenets of a faith by violence, then it becomes a civic obligation to stand up to them. And if the people doing the standing up are not in every way nice people—if they express other views that are ugly and prejudiced by any standard—then the more shame on all the rest of us for leaving the job to them.

I agree too. Cartoons depicting Mohammad fornicating with pigs should be issued on a weekly basis from the White House and Congress.

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No, I'm mocking the twits who thought it would be a good idea to give a hornet's nest a poke.

Just so we're clear here are you actually of the opinion that your so-called victims acted intelligently?

I had a hornet's nest a couple of years ago forming partly inside the roof of my house. I didn't poke it. I didn't hope they'd eventually go away. I bought a can of Raid and killed them. Then I went back a few days later and sprayed again, just in case. They've never been back, I keep checking when I'm over on that side of the house.

Avoiding having certain events because it might tick off extremists is silly. That would be like avoiding having barbecue on the back deck because that would attract the hornets. What a stupid way to live that would be. You have all the barbecues you'd normally have and defend yourself against the little bastards whenever they come around. I find a simple swat in mid air has them falling to the ground buzzing about because they've lost their equilibrium, then you go over and step on them.

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When you rattle a cage or scrape your fingernails over a blackboard, you get a reaction. I remember what happened in Skokie Illinois in the late 1970's when neo Nazis decided they wanted to march through predominantly Jewish areas. They were eventually allowed that right and it fizzled.

Meanwhile, Meir Kahane, that paragon of tolerance, was fanning the fires with his "kill Nazis now" and "every Jew a .22" catchy phrases.

Yes, It is a free country but why antagonize for no reason. There are about 4,000 Muslims in the American military. When you insult the Islam faith then you are insulting all Muslims.

By the way, Texas remains the "unique" state of independent thinkers. Looks like lots of Texans are preparing for a federal takeover under the cover of federal military exercises planned in Texas. That would be an interesting firefight.

Edited by Big Guy
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What a weird reaction.

If I eat bacon in public am I insulting Jews and Muslims?

Or am I insulting only those who take Leviticus seriously enough who want me to act as they think?

I think it's the latter which means it's not "insulting all Muslims" at all.

It's insulting people who think I, a non-believer, must act as they think.

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When you rattle a cage or scrape your fingernails over a blackboard, you get a reaction. I remember what happened in Skokie Illinois in the late 1970's when neo Nazis decided they wanted to march through predominantly Jewish areas. They were eventually allowed that right and it fizzled.

Meanwhile, Meir Kahane, that paragon of tolerance, was fanning the fires with his "kill Nazis now" and "every Jew a .22" catchy phrases.

Yes, It is a free country but why antagonize for no reason. There are about 4,000 Muslims in the American military. When you insult the Islam faith then you are insulting all Muslims.

By the way, Texas remains the "unique" state of independent thinkers. Looks like lots of Texans are preparing for a federal takeover under the cover of federal military exercises planned in Texas. That would be an interesting firefight.

You've got a couple of mix ups there. When you rattle a cage or scrape fingernails over a black board, getting a reaction is normal. You're comparing that to drawing a picture of a certain person, which only extremist people get bent out of shape over. It's a false comparison to go with your strawman efforts.

Also, this super sensitivity to the Muslim faith is not reality, nor should it be. There is no such sensitivity for the Christian faith. Abortion clinics became the norm although Christian extremists were so "insulted" that they started shooting doctors. while the non extremist Christians were holding protests and campaigns. Same for gay marriage, taking prayer out of schools and on and on I could go. If North America has showed little "sensitivity" for the Christian faith, they're not going to go all wobbly over a few muslim extremists.

Edited by sharkman
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To sharkman - It is pretty obvious to me that you have a strong opinion of Muslims and Islam. I have no desire to try to change your views. Every issue brings out the same argument by the same people about the same things. I venture in once in a while to try to explore the middle ground.

I believe that people generally try to do good, to not hurt your fellow man and to try to get along with those who are not like us. I also believe in accommodation. I used to like to sit in my back yard with only a speedo and a cold beer. There were situations where my neighbors had guests in their back yard, just across a chain link fence. I learned, in deference to them that when they had guests I either put on more clothes or changed my pattern. Later, I built a higher privacy fence that we both paid towards.

There are many things that irritate others that do not irritate me but I do not think for them. For years as a smoker, when I lit up and noticed there were children or people eating in the area I would stop smoking.

My point is that just because what you do is legal but irritates others does not mean you have to do it. You can accommodate others - I believe that accommodation is not a weakness but a strength of character where one can exhibit concern for others.

If I had a Barry Manilow that I liked but knew that it irritated others in a social group, I would not play it.

Like on this board: there are insults thrown around whose aim is to irritate me and others. I do not have to respond in kind and engage in a war of words. I do have a fair vocabulary and could reply in kind but to what end?

What you consider as super sensitivity to the Muslim faith I consider accommodation that one human would give to another as respect of their religion be it Hebrew, Catholic, Muslim or whatever. I would expect the same accommodation to mine.

If Muslims find the depiction of Mohammed, especially in demeaning poses, to be extremely irritating, why would I want to do something to irritate them? Why would you like to irritate them?

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What you consider as super sensitivity to the Muslim faith I consider accommodation that one human would give to another as respect of their religion be it Hebrew, Catholic, Muslim or whatever. I would expect the same accommodation to mine.

If Muslims find the depiction of Mohammed, especially in demeaning poses, to be extremely irritating, why would I want to do something to irritate them? Why would you like to irritate them?

If you take the view that people should avoid doing stuff that makes other people mad, does that just apply to frivolous stuff like cartoons, or does it apply to weightier issues as well? What if it's cartoons about weightier issues (for example, political cartoons that excoriated the Catholic Church cover-up of child molestation? A lot of Catholics found those deeply offensive.) Who decides whether something is important enough to risk offending others?

In 2004, film-maker Theo Van Gogh was stabbed to death in Amsterdam because of a film he had made on the issue of how women are treated in Islam. His film offended some Muslims, and Van Gogh was murdered as a result. Should the next film-maker who wants to do a documentary about women in Islam self-censor himself? Should he say "I think this issue is pretty important, but it might offend somebody so I should just keep my opinion to myself"?

-k

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To sharkman - It is pretty obvious to me that you have a strong opinion of Muslims and Islam. I have no desire to try to change your views. Every issue brings out the same argument by the same people about the same things. I venture in once in a while to try to explore the middle ground.

I believe that people generally try to do good, to not hurt your fellow man and to try to get along with those who are not like us. I also believe in accommodation. I used to like to sit in my back yard with only a speedo and a cold beer. There were situations where my neighbors had guests in their back yard, just across a chain link fence. I learned, in deference to them that when they had guests I either put on more clothes or changed my pattern. Later, I built a higher privacy fence that we both paid towards.

There are many things that irritate others that do not irritate me but I do not think for them. For years as a smoker, when I lit up and noticed there were children or people eating in the area I would stop smoking.

My point is that just because what you do is legal but irritates others does not mean you have to do it. You can accommodate others - I believe that accommodation is not a weakness but a strength of character where one can exhibit concern for others.

If I had a Barry Manilow that I liked but knew that it irritated others in a social group, I would not play it.

Like on this board: there are insults thrown around whose aim is to irritate me and others. I do not have to respond in kind and engage in a war of words. I do have a fair vocabulary and could reply in kind but to what end?

What you consider as super sensitivity to the Muslim faith I consider accommodation that one human would give to another as respect of their religion be it Hebrew, Catholic, Muslim or whatever. I would expect the same accommodation to mine.

If Muslims find the depiction of Mohammed, especially in demeaning poses, to be extremely irritating, why would I want to do something to irritate them? Why would you like to irritate them?

What you or I believe or choose to do is irrelevant. What you choose to do on this board is irrelevant.

Your whole post neatly ignored the simple point I made, you simply repeated yourself as if that would wipe away your flawed thinking I pointed out. You wrongly compared scratching fingernails on a chalk board, which is irritating to a rational person, to drawing cartoons that irrational people find offensive.

Muslims also think women should be property only and are offended at the way North American women dress. Should we outlaw dresses, bikinis, halter tops and the like so we don't offend Muslims? That is where your "do not offend" mindset leads us. You pick and choose which offences you would observe, neatly ignoring the reality of the situation, and also my earlier points about how the Christian faith's sensitivities are ignored.

And again, if North America has showed little "sensitivity" for the Christian faith, they're not going to go all wobbly over a few muslim extremists. It's not the Muslim faith that is at question here, it's extremists and religious bigots.

Edited by sharkman
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Yes, It is a free country but why antagonize for no reason.

Who says it's for no reason? It's becoming a very valuable reason. Preventing religion from taking away our political free speech rights. Remember the separation of church and state?
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If you take the view that people should avoid doing stuff that makes other people mad, does that just apply to frivolous stuff like cartoons, or does it apply to weightier issues as well? What if it's cartoons about weightier issues (for example, political cartoons that excoriated the Catholic Church cover-up of child molestation? A lot of Catholics found those deeply offensive.) Who decides whether something is important enough to risk offending others?

In 2004, film-maker Theo Van Gogh was stabbed to death in Amsterdam because of a film he had made on the issue of how women are treated in Islam. His film offended some Muslims, and Van Gogh was murdered as a result. Should the next film-maker who wants to do a documentary about women in Islam self-censor himself? Should he say "I think this issue is pretty important, but it might offend somebody so I should just keep my opinion to myself"?

-k

Well said kimmy. There is no right not to be offended. Today it's a drawing on a piece of paper. Tomorrow it's something bigger.
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What you consider as super sensitivity to the Muslim faith I consider accommodation that one human would give to another as respect of their religion be it Hebrew, Catholic, Muslim or whatever. I would expect the same accommodation to mine.

That's part of the problem. You expect some kind of accomodation when you're not entitled to one. If there is some kind of accomodation made, that's strictly voluntary on behalf of an individual, and has absolutely no carry over to anybody else. We are free to discuss, critique, mock, ridicule, praise, support, denounce any idea, concepts, policies, etc that we want to. If people don't like that, or can't accept that, then perhaps another country is for them.
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You're the one that needs educating. You're the one that thinks that the U.S. constitution applies to you, and somehow overrides the Canadian constitution. Absurdity.

What the hell are you talking about overrides the Canadian Constitution? Where have I said anything about the Canadian constitution here. You said the American constitution doesn't apply to non-citizens. I'm showing you evidence from a top legal scholar that it does. Do you have anything to say about that?
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