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Baltimore Riots


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I've never believed that racism, directly, is the root of this problem, because that fails to explain why we often see white victims of police brutality as well.

I think that the reasons that black people are disproportionately affected relate partly to racism (ie, racial profiling by police) as well as sociological issues where of course racism may be a factor a well.

But to me the direct root of the problem is that the police feel entitled to use force on a whim, and that they don't expect to be held accountable for the use of force. You can look at any number of incidents where the primary police interest in these matters is not accountability or upholding professional standards, but rather protecting their own, obfuscating evidence of wrongdoing, covering up, trying to manipulate public perception of the incident.

Just looking at this Baltimore case, a couple of things we've found out are that this "switchblade" that Gray was carrying was actually a legal pocket-knife. Why did the police initially say it was a switchblade? The police know the difference between a switchblade and a pocket-knife. They called it a switchblade in the initial press reports because they wanted to manipulate the public perception of the arrest. If you believe otherwise, you're naive and gullible.

And then we heard about this alleged witness who allegedly claimed that Gray had been trying to injure himself in the van. But now that we've seen the time line of Gray's trip from the scene of the arrest to the police station, we know that the alleged witness wasn't picked up until the 4th stop the van made, while the police in the van had called for medical help before then. So the alleged witness obviously didn't see what happened. And that witness himself says that his remarks were misrepresented, and that he never actually saw Gray and only heard a few banging sounds from elsewhere in the van. So this is obviously also a bunch of BS that the police conjured in an attempt to deflect blame.

This is typical. We saw the grand-daddy of examples of this in how the police managed information released to the public in the wake of the slaying of Robert Dziekanski.

-k

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I'm not sure on this but could there be a connection to riots, if the above link is true to the next link here? Not saying there is. http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-pentagons-operation-jade-helm-15-the-floodgate-towards-martial-law-and-world-war-iii/5443856

no, no, no. This is a bunch of conspiracy theory crap. A military training exercise in Texas has nothing to do with riots in Baltimore.

-k

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For those wondering what could possible go wrong in the back of a police van:

In Baltimore and other cities, huge settlements have been paid to people who were put in handcuffs, then battered during what they say were intentionally wild trips, with fast turns and sudden stops that had them bouncing off metal walls and benches.

This brand of street payback, sometimes handed out when suspects ran or gave the cops a hard time, goes by different names: Here, it's known as “the rough ride.” In Philadelphia, where it has a long and ignoble history, cops called it the “nickel ride,” a throwback to the days of 5-cent carnival tickets.

...

One Baltimore woman said city police took her on a wild ride after a 2012 noise complaint at her home turned into an arrest for disorderly conduct.

“Very fast, wide turns, braking short — they were doing everything they could to make the ride as bumpy and chaotic as possible,” said Christine Abbott, a 27-year-old librarian at Johns Hopkins University who has filed a federal lawsuit against the city. The case was first reported by the Baltimore Sun.

“It was really scary,” said Abbott, who says she was handcuffed behind her back, and not belted in. “I couldn't do anything. I was just sliding around in there.”

The officers deny taking Abbott on a rough ride, or doing anything else to harm her, according to lawyer Michael Marshall.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-baltimore-rough-rides-20150501-story.html#page=1

... Gray is not the first person to come out of a Baltimore police wagon with serious injuries.

Relatives of Dondi Johnson Sr., who was left a paraplegic after a 2005 police van ride, won a $7.4 million verdict against police officers. A year earlier, Jeffrey Alston was awarded $39 million by a jury after he became paralyzed from the neck down as the result of a van ride. Others have also received payouts after filing lawsuits.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-gray-rough-rides-20150423-story.html#page=1

There seems to be something of a pattern here.

-k

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The average salary for police officers in Canada is $75,500 a year. The average for police salaries in the USA is $28,000 a year. The average salary for police officers in Baltimore is $30,000 a year.

Perhaps you get the professionalism that you pay for.

To compare - average salary Canada - $49,000 year

Average salary USA - $44,000 a year

In Canada, a policemen earns about $25,000 MORE than the average Canadian.

In the USA, a policemen earns about $16,000 LESS than the average American.

That may reflect the quality of individual that is expected in the two counties.

Edited by Big Guy
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If so I'm confused by watching it on video.

Cite? Video?

Policy is one thing, procedure is another.

Wearing a set belt is the law in Maryland. Wouldnt you think it should be policy for the police, of all people, to follow the law. Freddie got what is referred to as ..a rough ride.

Edited by On Guard for Thee
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I think that the reasons that black people are disproportionately affected relate partly to racism (ie, racial profiling by police) as well as sociological issues where of course racism may be a factor a well.

Sociological and behavioural on all sides....already discussed in other threads. The police are trained to escalate with ever increasing force when confronted with noncompliant detainees or arrested perps. "Thumpers" will add even more, while the "victim" doesn't want to be seen as a compliant "punk bitch"....a recipe for an official ass whupping.

I grew up in Philadelphia during the 60's with Frank Rizzo's very aggressive police department, and the streetwise folk knew that if you resisted the cops you only got thumped with a baton and put in the back of the "Paddy Wagon"...if you were lucky.

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It's interesting that the pictures of the six officers arrested show that the two supervisors, a lieutenant and a sergeant, were black. The driver, facing the most serious charges, is also black. The first officer who 'made eye contact' with Gray, and then began to chase him, was the Black lieutenant. I wonder how that plays into the alleged racial motivation of this case.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/who-are-the-police-officers-charged-in-the-death-of-freddie-gray/2015/05/01/dde6bc2e-f01f-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html

Good point. I guess we're suppose to believe that these black officers are racist against blacks. The other sides argument implodes as usual.
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The average salary for police officers in Canada is $75,500 a year. The average for police salaries in the USA is $28,000 a year. The average salary for police officers in Baltimore is $30,000 a year.

Perhaps you get the professionalism that you pay for.

To compare - average salary Canada - $49,000 year

Average salary USA - $44,000 a year

In Canada, a policemen earns about $25,000 MORE than the average Canadian.

In the USA, a policemen earns about $16,000 LESS than the average American.

That may reflect the quality of individual that is expected in the two counties.

You'd be better off referencing the salaries of police officers in large cities. Of course salaries will be lower in small town Idaho for example. Reference their pensions and benefits too. The salary you mention is the base rookie salary. Edited by Shady
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Good point. I guess we're suppose to believe that these black officers are racist against blacks. The other sides argument implodes as usual.

Doesnt implode in the least. Have you never heard of the concept that black officers are actually...blue. Luckily Maryland has, at least to begin with anyway, not tried to sweep it all under the rug as per usual.

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This is typical. We saw the grand-daddy of examples of this in how the police managed information released to the public in the wake of the slaying of Robert Dziekanski.

-k

There's countless examples. One of my favourites was the spread of weapons at G20, many of them confiscated from nerds who were LARPing.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/weapons-seized-in-g20-arrests-not-what-they-seem/article4349839/

the arrows belong to Brian Barrett, a 25-year-old landscaper who was heading to a role-playing fantasy game ... Mr. Barrett said he was "appalled" at the placement of his chain-mail beneath a machete
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To Shady - The average income for a police officer in New York is $34,000 or $10,000 less than the average salary for all of USA.

The average income for a police officer in Los Angeles is $30,000 or $14,000 less than the national average.

If Canada has the same relative pay scale then the average salary for a police officer in Canada would be $35,000 a year.

http://www.indeed.com/salary/q-Police-Officer-1-United-States.html

If we had the same respect for and expectation for law enforcement, then we would be offering an average of $35,000 for experienced people (probably starting in the $20,000 range and up to $50,000), giving them a gun and the decision making power of life and death over us. I suggest that we would have the same quality of people as they have in the United States and soon be suffering the same problems of police killing people.

You get what you pay for.

Edited by Big Guy
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To Shady - The average income for a police officer in New York is $34,000 or $10,000 less than the average salary for all of USA.

The average income for a police officer in Los Angeles is $30,000 or $14,000 less than the national average.

Patently false....the average salaries for police officers is higher in those and many other U.S. cities:

http://www1.salary.com/Police-Officer-Salary.html

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I suspect a lot of cops fall into the category described by Plato who said... those who seek power, are not worthy of that power. Of course not true i all cases, but apparently the screening and training processes need some upgrading. Especially in the US.

I suspect that describes more politicians than cops. Government is where you acquire real power.

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Ah..no. Politicians are vetted many ways including by the party they join and of course by the electorate. Cops, not so much. As they can wield their power under cover of darkness in back alleys etc.

Politicians can wield their power in back rooms.
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What is stupid, is those that feel this will result in diminished powers afforded to the State by Society.......So stupid in fact, that most will tune your arguments out (even though you might make some valid points) or find them exceedingly banal to the point of vapid........Remember when the "youth" were going to bring forth change by "Occupying" city parks? How did that work out?

Quite well, in fact. The powers that be took note, raising taxes on the 1% became a meme politically, Wall Street certainly took notice.

Change is a multifaceted thing, often insinuating it's way into the public psyche and energizing ordinary people to break out from oppressive circumstances.

Police practices that have been common but unspoken are now open to public scrutiny and resulting in serious charges to cops.

I believe the behaviour of police toward the public ... WHO PAY THEIR SALARIES ... is a reflection of the attitude of the power brokers in society. I see this changing as police are held accountable for their behaviour ... By all the cell phone cameras watching them everywhere, that they can no longer confiscate cameras, delete pics, etc.

Occupy has empowered many, the power brokers have taken notice, and the police have been reminded that WE PAY THEIR SALARIES! THEY WORK FOR US!

And we all have cameras. :)

.

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Today, I found another article that says in the US police have killed more people than those Americans killed in the Iraqi war. If the article is true and we'll have to wait and see, the US, this summer is going to be violent and I'm old enough to remember the rioting in the 1960's. http://www.globalresearch.ca/is-the-federal-government-ready-for-war-against-the-american-people/5446852

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Good point, only the naive don't have concerns about governmental powers.

There are hundreds of threads on this forum that indicate that people are very concerned with governmental powers. Are we only supposed to be concerned with one thing at a time?

Possibly. But police power is nothing compared to the power of politicians.

Politicians have the power to make "big picture" decisions that affect lots of people, but when you interact with the police they have direct and immediate power over you in a way that no politician has.

-k

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