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You specifically talked about "the threat of popular uprising is necessary to keep politicians honest". That's a very specifically American point of view. Not many Canadians would agree with that.

Nonetheless, you don't see many American conservatives supporting that narration of events in regards to Baltimore in the media either.

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You specifically talked about "the threat of popular uprising is necessary to keep politicians honest". That's a very specifically American point of view. Not many Canadians would agree with that.

I think progressive Canadians are far more likely to agree with this view.

Canada's conservatives are more like the classical original definition of a right-winger used in pre-revolutionary France, they adore power hate the left and can probably sense what's coming.

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Why aren't you conservatives having freedom parties in honor of the Baltimore riots? I thought you guys loved it when the citizenry rises up against government oppression.

-k

The fear of an armed uprising by black people has been a recurring fear. The terrorist KKK was founded on that very basis and the NRA has historically promoted gun control measures in response to those fears. But I suspect you know this. ;)

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So I just heard 3 of the cops charged with the death of Freddie Grey are Black.

Kind of flies in the face of this racism trope doesn't it. In fact just about all of the noteworthy officials in Baltimore are black.

I'm not saying there aren't race issues in the US. But Baltimore can't be a place where the type of overt racism we saw in Ferguson can be as common can it?

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So I just heard 3 of the cops charged with the death of Freddie Grey are Black.

Kind of flies in the face of this racism trope doesn't it.

I'm not saying there aren't race issues in the US. But Baltimore can't be a place where the type of overt racism we saw in Ferguson can be as common can it?

Only if you think racism is exclusively a consciously held individual belief and not an unconscious set of assumptions that colour one's behaviours.

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I think they should appoint a special prosecutor for this case. The Prosecutors in this state are elected. During the last campaign, the lawyer for the victims family is on record to contributing $5,000 to her election campaign. It probably has nothing to do with her enthusiastic laying of charges but these are serious charges.

If/when any of the police involved are convicted, you do not want to lay easy groundwork for an appeal. A appeals court may feel that a conflict of interest is present and the trial would be negated.

Appoint a special prosecutor.

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I'm also confused as to why the conservatives on the forum are so upset about the riots. Based on the rhetoric from the NRA

types, and the Tea Party types, one thing I know for sure is that conservatives believe that the threat of popular uprising

is necessary to keep politicians honest. A great many conservatives argue that the Second Amendment was designed as a check

against government tyranny. That viewpoint has been argued by the NRA, by Republicans, by constitutional experts.

At the risk of veering off topic, what do you mean by 'conservatives'? I consider myself to be conservative but I can't stand the NRA or

Republicans (who aren't actually conservative) and don't see gun control as a 'conservative' topic. I believe in 'peace, order, and good government', and while I haven't hesitated to criticize police for going over the line (as in the G20 for example) I don't believe rioting is the best means to make changes to their procedures.

Well, in Baltimore you have a group of people who are not just talking, they're putting those words into action. There is, certainly, no more obvious example of government tyranny than police officers slaying a man without trial.

First of all, it's not clear what happened in the van. I do accept that these 'rough rides' sometimes happen where a 'perp' has particularly irritated police, but it's not clear at all that that's what happened here. I also have little sympathy for Black mobs claiming racism when their mayor is black, their chief of police is black, and both supervisors of the officers in the situation involved were black, as was the driver of the van.

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First of all, it's not clear what happened in the van. I do accept that these 'rough rides' sometimes happen where a 'perp' has particularly irritated police, but it's not clear at all that that's what happened here.

What do you suggest they were doing when they took him on an hour long tour of the city? Sightseeing?

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I'm also confused as to why the conservatives on the forum are so upset about the riots. Based on the rhetoric from the NRA types, and the Tea Party types, one thing I know for sure is that conservatives believe that the threat of popular uprising is necessary to keep politicians honest. A great many conservatives argue that the Second Amendment was designed as a check against government tyranny. That viewpoint has been argued by the NRA, by Republicans, by constitutional experts.

A good question, I'd say the difference here is that the term "popular uprising" is subjective.......One person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter etc.........

Why? Why aren't the rioters heroes to you guys? When this stuff happened at Clive Bundy's ranch, Sean Hannity jizzed his pants on-air, he was so aroused by all the freedom. Why aren't you conservatives having freedom parties in honor of the Baltimore riots?

I would say the support for Bundy versus these rioters is in large part due to the lack of Bundy's supporters carting off flat screens, booze and smokes....

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Hey, you're the one that suggested Bundy's actions gained support from the "Right" (and not the Baltimore rioters) based on skin color.......or do you have an and?

The Venn diagram between racist white supremacists and anti-government gun fetishists is very close to a circle.

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The Venn diagram between racist white supremacists and anti-government gun fetishists is very close to a circle.

Yet no support for the white, anti government/capitalist/"the system" types camping occupying city parks........square that circle.

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Interesting.....since many "blacks" love guns too, just like other Americans.

Sure, like Malcolm X and the Black Panthers. Of course, when those people started toting guns and talking revolution, the NRA and white conservatives like Ronald Reagan were mighty quick to back various gun control measures like the Mulford Act...

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A good question, I'd say the difference here is that the term "popular uprising" is subjective.......One person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter etc.........

I'm just trying to figure out why a bunch of rednecks helping out a withered old deadbeat who doesn't feel like paying his grazing fees inspires Sean Hannity and the Breitbart crew to have freedomgasms, while revolting against extrajudicial killings by government agents is causes those same people shock and revulsion.

Surely standing up against unlawful use of force by the state is far closer to the spirit of 1776 than some wealthy rancher welching on debts.

I would say the support for Bundy versus these rioters is in large part due to the lack of Bundy's supporters carting off flat screens, booze and smokes....

Perhaps they couldn't find an East India Company ship loaded with tea on short notice.

There's a well established precedent for this: the powers-that-be don't care until well-off peoples' shit gets wrecked.

-k

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At the risk of veering off topic, what do you mean by 'conservatives'? I consider myself to be conservative but I can't stand the NRA or Republicans (who aren't actually conservative) and don't see gun control as a 'conservative' topic. I believe in 'peace, order, and good government', and while I haven't hesitated to criticize police for going over the line (as in the G20 for example) I don't believe rioting is the best means to make changes to their procedures.

By "conservatives" I am referring to the self-styled conservatives, everybody from the Fox and Breitbart set to Shady and Derek.

While philosophically I don't support rioting as a legitimate political action, I'm at a loss as to what else could be done at this point.

There have been protests, and it has not resulted in change.

The police have been successfully sued for this bullshit in court, and it has not resulted in change.

The city of Baltimore has paid out millions of dollars in damages over this bullshit in court, and it has not resulted in change.

The voters have elected officials who were supposed to be sympathetic to their concerns, and it has not resulted in change.

A couple of days of rioting, burning stores, and smashing cop cars has resulted in world-wide media attention, and criminal charges being laid against the cops involved. Surely there's a lesson to be learned here.

First of all, it's not clear what happened in the van. I do accept that these 'rough rides' sometimes happen where a 'perp' has particularly irritated police, but it's not clear at all that that's what happened here. I also have little sympathy for Black mobs claiming racism when their mayor is black, their chief of police is black, and both supervisors of the officers in the situation involved were black, as was the driver of the van.

For the record, I'm not one crying racism. I feel like that's over-simplifying the situation-- it fails to explain why cops seem equally happy to beat the shit out of white victims when the opportunity arises.

As for what happened in the van. Certainly none of us were in the van with Freddie Gray, and we can't know for sure what happened.

But by this time I'm assuming you've read about the Baltimore PD's history of maiming and killing people with "nickel rides".

And by this time I'm assuming you've also looked at the route the van took to the police station, taking a 40-minute drive to reach a police station that was just 2 minutes away from where Gray was arrested.

Taking those two pieces of information into account, I invite you to offer an alternate theory of what happened to Gray that anybody with an IQ over 60 would find believable. Go ahead. Be as inventive as you wish.

-k

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I'm just trying to figure out why a bunch of rednecks helping out a withered old deadbeat who doesn't feel like paying his grazing fees inspires Sean Hannity and the Breitbart crew to have freedomgasms, while revolting against extrajudicial killings by government agents is causes those same people shock and revulsion.

Surely standing up against unlawful use of force by the state is far closer to the spirit of 1776 than some wealthy rancher welching on debts.

Again, its a mater of perspective and ones own bias...........I don't see the liberation of Malt liquor and menthols as a revolt against "state killings"......

Perhaps they couldn't find an East India Company ship loaded with tea on short notice.

There's a well established precedent for this: the powers-that-be don't care until well-off peoples' shit gets wrecked.

-k

Perhaps, but I doubt most of the local (Black) store owners that were the victims of the riots are too well-off........certainly not anymore.

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Again, its a mater of perspective and ones own bias...........I don't see the liberation of Malt liquor and menthols as a revolt against "state killings"......

Why do you put "state killings" in "quotation marks"? Do you have an alternate theory to offer as to what happened to Freddie Gray?

Perhaps, but I doubt most of the local (Black) store owners that were the victims of the riots are too well-off........certainly not anymore.

I doubt a lot of research went into the exercise. Nonetheless, the precedent has been established. If you don't want anything to get done, stand there peacefully and hold a sign that says "I am a tad upset". If you want something to be done, burn stuff to the ground.

-k

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