Baltimore Riots

[Black Dog]

Apparently they will be arraigned tomorrow and currently all 6 have been suspended from the force and 5 are already in custody. They are moving fast on this one it seems.

But but but mass protests don't work all those people who took to the streets would have been better off writing letters!

[guyser]

I second that emotion.

I'll third it.

Motion issued.

[Argus]

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/7188946?ir=Canada

Baltimore State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby gave an update on the investigation into the death of Freddie Gray, the 25-year-old who died after suffering a spinal cord injury while in police custody in April, calling his death a homicide.

"We have probable cause to file criminal charges," Mosby said in a press conference Friday.

Charges including second degree murder, involuntary manslaughter and assault, among others, will be filed against the officers involved in Gray's arrest, Mosby said.

Good.

Get the violent thugs-with-badges off the street and into prison where they belong.

I'm a little confused here. What is the theory as to how the guy died that would lead to such charges? If he died in the back of the van due to falling or twisting his neck or something then their only crime, it would seem, is that they didn't do up his seatbelt, as called for in a memo distributed a few days earlier.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Argus

[cybercoma]

I'm a little confused here. What is the theory as to how the guy died that would lead to such charges? If he died in the back of the van due to falling or twisting his neck or something then their only crime, it would seem, is that they didn't do up his seatbelt, as called for in a memo distributed a few days earlier.

What's the difference between a reason and an excuse?

[guyser]

I'm a little confused here. What is the theory as to how the guy died that would lead to such charges? If he died in the back of the van due to falling or twisting his neck or something then their only crime, it would seem, is that they didn't do up his seatbelt, as called for in a memo distributed a few days earlier.

Over zealous arrest whereby they sat on his neck.

Then they dragged him to the van.

Next they threw him in the van, couple that with no restraints of the body in the van and the ride itself (with the above in play) could further damage the man.

And apparently, the van stopped for an half hour somewhere but we do not know yet .

I have to be careful, I read this earlier and dont really know the veracity of it, but thats what I read.

[On Guard for Thee]

I'm a little confused here. What is the theory as to how the guy died that would lead to such charges? If he died in the back of the van due to falling or twisting his neck or something then their only crime, it would seem, is that they didn't do up his seatbelt, as called for in a memo distributed a few days earlier.

I guess when you illegally arrest someone, manacle and handcuff them, then throw them facedown on the floor of a police van, with no seatbelt and then drive around town awhile, resulting in them sustaining injuries leading to their death, you should expect a bit of blowback. And if you really think Maryland seatbelt law came into effect by memo a few days ago, you really are confused.

[eyeball]

They deliberately gave him a rough ride and basically beat him death.

[Je suis Omar]

I'm a little confused here.

Thank dog for small mercies.

What is the theory as to how the guy died that would lead to such charges? If he died in the back of the van due to falling or twisting his neck or something then their only crime, it would seem, is that they didn't do up his seatbelt, as called for in a memo distributed a few days earlier.

Do you think that you might be a little confused because you aren't privy to the facts.

Are you aware that that is a commonplace occurrence for you?

[jacee]

That's your lame response to the "USA as an equal to the Nazis", BlackDog.

These issues are central to what the USA is and has always been, a corrupt, vicious nation of violent, amoral people.

Not all of course but more than enough to see through numerous holocausts.

But you keep on being "one of the strongest critics of US "policies"" on this board.

You have been baited by the bush_Cheney troll.

He tries to derail every discussion into that topic.

Ignore works.

[jacee]

I'm a little confused here. What is the theory as to how the guy died that would lead to such charges? If he died in the back of the van due to falling or twisting his neck or something then their only crime, it would seem, is that they didn't do up his seatbelt, as called for in a memo distributed a few days earlier.

Well I guess you missed some articles.

Apparently the Baltimore police don't put a seatbelt some people they 'detain' in handcuffs.

Then they careen the van about throwing the person around inside.

Brain damage is a likely result, but in this case it was a deadly spinal injury.

And then there's the missing half hour ...

.

Edited May 1, 2015 by jacee

[Argus]

Over zealous arrest whereby they sat on his neck.

I thought the injury happened in the van?

Next they threw him in the van,

No, they didn't. I saw that on camera. He climbed up into it and they closed the door behind.

couple that with no restraints of the body in the van

Yes, but as I understand it the policy was only recently changed with the memo going out a few days earlier. A lot of departments

don't have seat belt policies for these vans. I don't even know that we have them in Canada. I've seen a lot of people loaded into a

lot of police vans on American, Canadian and British TV reality type shows, and never yet seen one strapped in after climbing into

the cage.

And apparently, the van stopped for an half hour somewhere but we do not know yet .

The only way I see these sorts of charges being justified would be if it stopped and they went back there and beat him up, and I

haven't seen any allegations of that.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Argus

[Argus]

Well I guess you missed some articles.

Apparently the Baltimore police don't put a seatbelt some people they 'detain' in handcuffs.

Then they careen the van about throwing the person around inside.

I've heard that. What I haven't heard is serious allegations that happened here.

[Je suis Omar]

You have been baited by the bush_Cheney troll.

He tries to derail every discussion into that topic.

Ignore works.

I appreciate that, Jacee, but this violent nature that is endemic to the USA is very pertinent to the issues being raised here.

How many of those police officers are ex-military, folks who are used to and comfortable with murdering/executing civilians with no adverse consequences?

This has been US policy for over two centuries - kill innocent civilians with impunity.

One million people killed in the Korean War;

Two million people killed in Vietnam;

One to two million people killed in Cambodia;

Eight hundred thousand people killed in Indonesia;

Fifty thousand people killed in Angola.

http://www.serendipity.li/cia/stock2.html

There's something immoral or amoral about us sitting around discussing these "issues" like we are responsible adults and ignoring the giant elephant in the room that is largely responsible for so much carnage.

[Derek 2.0]

Jesus. You're all over the place. You brought up The Leviathan. I told you it's antithetical to the US Constitution. You claimed that it wasn't and asked what parts it contradicts. So I tell you the division of powers and you respond with some garbage nonsense about our monarchy. So I inform you that we don't have the same kind of division of powers as the United States. Now you'er saying you didn't suggest we did. It's like arguing with someone who has alzheimers.

Why do you consider relaying themes form Leviathan to be "all over the place"? Hobbes's England had a division of powers, of which a civil war was fought to maintain, with Hobbes himself siding with Cromwell and Parliament.....hence, 17th century England had a division of power, like the United States does today.........Hobbes is hardly antithetical to the US Constitution, as the drafters of such applied the political philosophies of the day in its creation, of which Hobbes was key.......look no further than Hobbes writings on the Rights of the individual and the requirement of a social contract between the ruler and the ruled.

-----

To return to the point, civil society sacrifices individual liberties to the State in exchange for protection from anarchy, hence society fears more their fellow man than a controlling State........if or when this is no longer the case, society replaces the State, like the English did with Charles I, then the United States did with George the III etc........inversely, a small minority of Baltimore "liberating" Malt Liquor and Kools from the local corner stores does not translate into society's overthrow of the State.....

[cybercoma]

The liberties you're talking about sacrificing with the current example are the right to life and the right to a fair trial. You're condoning a police force that is out of control and killing people in the streets without trial. Very often they're killing unarmed people as well.

To that you refer to the social contract.

I'm sorry, but it's a stupid argument to put it bluntly.

Edited May 2, 2015 by cybercoma

[bush_cheney2004]

I appreciate that, Jacee, but this violent nature that is endemic to the USA is very pertinent to the issues being raised here.

The USA has always been a violent place...always will be. That's why it is so popular !!

[On Guard for Thee]

I thought the injury happened in the van?

No, they didn't. I saw that on camera. He climbed up into it and they closed the door behind.

Yes, but as I understand it the policy was only recently changed with the memo going out a few days earlier. A lot of departments

don't have seat belt policies for these vans. I don't even know that we have them in Canada. I've seen a lot of people loaded into a

lot of police vans on American, Canadian and British TV reality type shows, and never yet seen one strapped in after climbing into

the cage.

The only way I see these sorts of charges being justified would be if it stopped and they went back there and beat him up, and I

haven't seen any allegations of that.

You think he climbed into the van. Now you are being intentionally (confused). Yes they did throw him face down in the van, and yes thats where the worst of his injuries occurred. And seat belt laws in the state of Maryland have been in place since 2013. How much more confused could you be...

[On Guard for Thee]

The USA has always been a violent place...always will be. That's why it is so popular !!

You outdid yourself with that one.

[Derek 2.0]

The liberties you're talking about sacrificing with the current example are the right to life and the right to a fair trial. You're condoning a police force that is out of control and killing people in the streets without trial. Very often they're killing unarmed people as well.

Just where exactly did I condone (or condemn) the actions (or inactions) of these members of the Baltimore Police Department? My condemnation in this thread was reserved for those that suggest the riots are a precursor to change and that the monolithic State was losing control of the populace........

To that you refer to the social contract.

Sure.....what of it? In this example, State actors have broken the contract, as a result the State has charged those involved........

I'm sorry, but it's a stupid argument to put it bluntly.

What is stupid, is those that feel this will result in diminished powers afforded to the State by Society.......So stupid in fact, that most will tune your arguments out (even though you might make some valid points) or find them exceedingly banal to the point of vapid........Remember when the "youth" were going to bring forth change by "Occupying" city parks? How did that work out?

[Argus]

You think he climbed into the van. Now you are being intentionally (confused).

If so I'm confused by watching it on video.

Yes they did throw him face down in the van,

Cite? Video?

And seat belt laws in the state of Maryland have been in place since 2013.

Policy is one thing, procedure is another.

[Argus]

It's interesting that the pictures of the six officers arrested show that the two supervisors, a lieutenant and a sergeant, were black. The driver, facing the most serious charges, is also black. The first officer who 'made eye contact' with Gray, and then began to chase him, was the Black lieutenant. I wonder how that plays into the alleged racial motivation of this case.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/who-are-the-police-officers-charged-in-the-death-of-freddie-gray/2015/05/01/dde6bc2e-f01f-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html

Edited May 2, 2015 by Argus

[Smallc]

They're part of a racist system, they just can't help but become what they fear - that's what I'm supposed to say, right?

[Derek 2.0]

It's interesting that the pictures of the six officers arrested show that the two supervisors, a lieutenant and a sergeant, were black. The driver, facing the most serious charges, is also black. The first officer who 'made eye contact' with Gray, and then began to chase him, was the Black lieutenant. I wonder how that plays into the alleged racial motivation of this case.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/who-are-the-police-officers-charged-in-the-death-of-freddie-gray/2015/05/01/dde6bc2e-f01f-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html

You mean in the same force with a Black chief of police and a Black Mayor, on the outskirts of Washington DC where the Black President lives?

[Topaz]

The following article says that police were told to "stand down" when they arrived at the riots. A policemen, apparently went on the radio and told his story. http://www.globalresearch.ca/its-official-police-were-ordered-to-stand-down-and-let-the-baltimore-riots-rage-out-of-control/5446683

[Topaz]

I'm not sure on this but could there be a connection to riots, if the above link is true to the next link here? Not saying there is. http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-pentagons-operation-jade-helm-15-the-floodgate-towards-martial-law-and-world-war-iii/5443856