The_Squid Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Very terrible that these three young folks are dead for no reason. The police say it was a neighbour dispute over parking. Did the gunman kill them because of his rabid atheism? What is it about not believing in gods that could lead someone to do this for their atheism? Is this a "militant atheist"? I suppose if there was anyone that ever fit the bill, this would be it... Are parking spots sacred to atheists? My take is that he seemed to be a violent nutbar who posted stuff on the internet about atheism and shot 3 people because he was upset about a parking spot. Easy access to guns certainly also seems like a problem here. Do you really believe that this guy killed 3 people because of his anti-theism? Would he have killed an atheist neighbour over a parking spot? I am willing to bet that he would have... http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/11/us-usa-north-carolina-murder-idUSKBN0LF11020150211 A gunman who had posted anti-religious messages on Facebook was charged with killing three young Muslims in what police said on Wednesday was a dispute over parking and possibly a hate crime. ---------------------------------------------------------------Police said a preliminary investigation indicated the motive was an ongoing neighbor dispute over parking. They said Hicks turned himself in and was cooperating with police. "We understand the concerns about the possibility that this was hate-motivated and we will exhaust every lead to determine if that is the case," Chapel Hill Police Chief Chris Blue said in a statement. On Facebook, Hicks' profile picture reads "Atheists for Equality" and he frequently posted quotes critical of religion. On Jan. 20 he posted a photo of a .38-caliber revolver that he said was loaded and belonged to him. "Yes, that is 1 pound 5.1 ounces for my loaded 38 revolver, its holster, and five extra rounds in a speedloader," the post said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Atheists kill lots of people...nothing special about that compared to "religious" folk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Is it just a coinsidence that this particular Atheist extremist targeted people that were of a religious background? Would he have done the same in this instance if the folks weren't of any particular religion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Atheists kill lots of people...nothing special about that compared to "religious" folk. Quite right. Tens of millions have been killed by Atheists over the centuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Macadoo Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Is it just a coinsidence that this particular Atheist extremist targeted people that were of a religious background? Would he have done the same in this instance if the folks weren't of any particular religion?Does his extremist atheism allow him to lower the value of (1) religion below all others possibly due to sensory saturation in his environment?I 'd have to say if the most exhalted thing in atheist's lives are parking spots......bring on Abraham and his begotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Would he have done the same in this instance if the folks weren't of any particular religion?Depends, did they too park in the wrong spot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Quite right. Tens of millions have been killed by Atheists over the centuries.Um, how would you know that ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Depends, did they too park in the wrong spot? Luckily where I live they just hand out tickets if you park in the wrong spot. Ive had a few but so far havent shot anybody over it, and oh yeah, Im an atheist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 I find the double standard that the politicians and media have quite interesting. Muslims kill atheists while yelling Allahu Akbar. -> Media tells us it has nothing to do with Islam. An atheist kills 3 muslims. -> Media tells us it is a hate crime that is motivated by hatred of Islam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Um, how would you know that ? It's pretty recent history. Russian Revolution/Ukranian famine/purges/cultural revolution/Cambodian genocide and on and on and on. Of course, tens of millions have been killed by Christians over the centuries as well, but Shady draws no conclusions from that I find the double standard that the politicians and media have quite interesting. Muslims kill atheists while yelling Allahu Akbar. -> Media tells us it has nothing to do with Islam. An atheist kills 3 muslims. -> Media tells us it is a hate crime that is motivated by hatred of Islam. What about: Mentally ill person kills soldier on Parliment Hill -->media shits pants over Islamic terrorism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 I find the double standard that the politicians and media have quite interesting. Muslims kill atheists while yelling Allahu Akbar. -> Media tells us it has nothing to do with Islam. An atheist kills 3 muslims. -> Media tells us it is a hate crime that is motivated by hatred of Islam. Yep, excellent point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Religion is just another form of tribalism. Some people will kill for country or kill for God or kill for their lack of a belief in God. Some people even commit violence in the name of a sports team. Humans just seem wired that way. This guy got really behind the idea that people that are religious are somehow unworthy of respect. I think that sentiment is equally as destructive as people who believe their idea of God is better than someone elses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Reminder, when religious people kill people it's an isolated incident that has no relationship to the overall belief system. When non-religious people kill people it's proof that humans are innately evil who need religion to tell them killing is wrong. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Reminder, when religious people kill people it's an isolated incident that has no relationship to the overall belief system. When non-religious people kill people it's proof that humans are innately evil who need religion to tell them killing is wrong. -k Maybe the lesson here is people are garbage no matter what their belief system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 I find the double standard that the politicians and media have quite interesting. Muslims kill atheists while yelling Allahu Akbar. -> Media tells us it has nothing to do with Islam. An atheist kills 3 muslims. -> Media tells us it is a hate crime that is motivated by hatred of Islam. You might have to trouble a few brain cells to comprehend the complexities. Knee-jerking doesn't quite cover it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Mentally ill person kills soldier on Parliment Hill -->media shits pants over Islamic terrorism That attack was clearly motivated by Islamism. Though I wouldn't classify it as terrorism. As for mentally ill, that is questionable unless you want to consider all religion as a mental illness. This guy got really behind the idea that people that are religious are somehow unworthy of respect. I think that sentiment is equally as destructive as people who believe their idea of God is better than someone elses. Out of curiosity, where are you getting your information about the guy's motive? I cannot find that much information about it online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Out of curiosity, where are you getting your information about the guy's motive? I cannot find that much information about it online. His Facebook page was littered with Atheist propaganda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 That attack was clearly motivated by Islamism. Sure, in much the same way that Eliot Rogers and Marc Lepine were motivated by misogyny: less an ideological commitment than a vehicle for a mentally ill individual to latch on to. Though I wouldn't classify it as terrorism. The RCMP and feds would dispute that. As for mentally ill, that is questionable unless you want to consider all religion as a mental illness. Signs pretty clearly point to Michael Zehaf-Bibeau not being right in the head. Read up on the guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 I thought it was very obvious; Hate crime - "Fat guy hates skinny people so he shoots them." Oh, no it's ... Hate crime - "Crazed male misogynist executes two women - husband dies protecting wife." Or maybe it could be :"American patriot saves neighbors by eliminating 3 potential terrorists." Maybe;" American nationalist accidently shoots three Muslims, each in the head. FBI and CIA investigating their possible participation in terrorist cell." Sort of like some of the posts I see here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Reminder, when religious people kill people it's an isolated incident that has no relationship to the overall belief system. When non-religious people kill people it's proof that humans are innately evil who need religion to tell them killing is wrong. -k I've been told it's the opposite. Especially regarding Islam! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 The RCMP and feds would dispute that. And I'll dispute the claim of the feds and the RCMP. I'm with Tom Mulcair on this one, the attack on parliament hill does not classify as terrorism. His Facebook page was littered with Atheist propaganda. That doesn't imply what the motive was. It's not like he made a video or released a manifesto explaining the justification for his action (unlike say Anders Brevik or Zehaf-Bibeau). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 I find the double standard that the politicians and media have quite interesting. Muslims kill atheists while yelling Allahu Akbar. -> Media tells us it has nothing to do with Islam. An atheist kills 3 muslims. -> Media tells us it is a hate crime that is motivated by hatred of Islam. Out here in the real world (no equations necessary), every time a Muslim does anything bad, we get another round of Islamic extremism, and all 1.5 billion Muslims are expected to apologize and make another declaration that they will root out their extreme thinkers to turn them over to police authorities!* Reuters news service and the major newspapers that show up on a google search inform us that this terrorist's motives are "disputed." But, thanks for the window into upside down world! *Islamic and all anti-western terrorism is safely decontextualized by mainstream media, so that the average news consumer can't make a connection between U.S., Euro and other foreign policy and the rise of terrorist groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 And I'll dispute the claim of the feds and the RCMP. I'm with Tom Mulcair on this one, the attack on parliament hill does not classify as terrorism. That doesn't imply what the motive was. It's not like he made a video or released a manifesto explaining the justification for his action (unlike say Anders Brevik or Zehaf-Bibeau). He's obviously seriously mentally unstable in the anger management area ... but aware of his actions and I doubt he'll qualify for an insanity plea. Hate crime or not, 3 bullets to three heads mean this guy's not going to see the sun again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) Very terrible that these three young folks are dead for no reason. The police say it was a neighbour dispute over parking. Did the gunman kill them because of his rabid atheism? What is it about not believing in gods that could lead someone to do this for their atheism? Is this a "militant atheist"? I suppose if there was anyone that ever fit the bill, this would be it... Are parking spots sacred to atheists? My take is that he seemed to be a violent nutbar who posted stuff on the internet about atheism and shot 3 people because he was upset about a parking spot. Easy access to guns certainly also seems like a problem here. Do you really believe that this guy killed 3 people because of his anti-theism? Would he have killed an atheist neighbour over a parking spot? I am willing to bet that he would have... http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/11/us-usa-north-carolina-murder-idUSKBN0LF11020150211 I didn't want to start this topic yesterday, because the gunman's identity was still unknown, but it was already suspected to be a hate crime. The "parking dispute" excuse, seems to be coming from the killer's wife.....as if it's okay to kill three people if they take your parking spot or something! That could possibly be even more informative about how much they value some lives over others! On the general topic of atheism/antitheism, I've tried in private discussions I've been involved in and especially on the few forums I have participated in (I don't do social media), to get the point across to young...almost entirely male new atheists, that the old tropes about: atheism describing a lack of belief/ not a belief system, nobody can commit a genocide or murder on behalf of atheism, to be vapid and shallow ideological beliefs. I could plainly see that...since I had become an atheist long before the rise of the internet, that the cyberworld was turning atheism into a movement with an ideology! You could see it starting to come together in the early 2000's with the rise of new atheist celebrities, and in the last 10 years, the atheist movement has clearly fractured into competing ideologies...often over political differences, which usually range from mainstream liberal to radical libertarian. The great untold story that most non-atheists who have never went to a local atheist group meetup or spent a great deal of time on atheist forums online, is the problem that both cyber and real world atheists who want to have an atheist - non-theistic identity are almost all men, and almost all white and middle class! There seems to be a certain comfort zone needed to be and remain an atheist in mostly religious societies. If someone is living on the economic margins or is living in some of the extreme conflict zones that keep growing in size today in the third world, it's pretty rare to find anyone who will self-describe as an atheist! When it comes to women...there could be a number of reasons why atheist movements don't appeal to many women...it tends to be dry and bereft of emotion and social concerns, and...don't quote me on this, but if you have come across Dual Process Theory as an explanation for how our decision-making systems work, we are informed by some psychological researchers that female test subjects will skew towards intuitive understandings and decisions more so than men. Going with intuitions is going to mean often incorporating that sense of 'presence' that many of us may sometimes feel at different times in our lives. If this experience is more common among women than men, you're not going to have a majority of women becoming atheists! The best the radical antitheists trying to stamp out religion could hope for, is a transition away from organized religion to spiritual-based beliefs. And many of the women who do go to atheist meetups or even on some of the online sites, or attend atheist or skeptic conventions in particular, have come away with horror stories about male sexual predators and the lack of interest and concern from the organizers...who in the case of at least one of the major skeptic organizations is a sexual predator and a rapist himself. But, I won't mention the name, because aside from claims and testimonials, he hasn't faced any criminal charges....yet! Could be another Bill Cosby story but what we do know for certain is that a lot of women have a lot of bad things to say about him and his skeptic organization! Online, I've noticed many of the worst misogynists are often atheists. The Christian or fundamentalist misogynist may often be condescending or demeaning to women, but I seem to come across a lot of young male atheists who are outright hostile and a possible danger to women in the real world. I've mentioned a time or two, because of my tendency to stray towards pessimism even when it leads to uncomfortable conclusions, that I started to notice that new atheism is invariably attached at the hip to the enlightenment interpretation of progress and making a better world through the application of new technologies. We can see a lot of problems with the technologies we have now, and I am endlessly frustrated or worse by all of the pompous high-minded atheists claiming to be basing their beliefs on reason and the scientific process..all nevertheless have a faith in a better world provided by human invention and innovation, and they sure as hell don't have a damned bit of evidence to support this 'faith-based' belief! All of these facets of modern atheism mean to me that for many, atheism IS becoming a belief system, and worse- a faith based belief system on a core set of principles that cannot be proven with evidence or logic. Edited February 12, 2015 by WIP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 What about: Mentally ill person kills soldier on Parliment Hill -->media shits pants over Islamic terrorism There is no evidence whatever that the individual had any kind of mental illness. The far left has simply seized on this as an excuse, as they usually do, to absolve Islam of any connection or blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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